P&S sales continue to tank while DSLR sales thrive

Scott W wrote:


I don’t know of many people who now do not own a compact camera,
including me. Doesn’t it make sense that perhaps the sales of compact
cameras is going to drop as most people have them? On the other hand
most people don’t yet have a DSLR, so there is still a large potential
market for them.

If you are trying to say that sales of compact cameras are in trouble
due to DLSR you are about as deluded as some of the film people who
keep seeing a resurgence in the use of film and claim that large
numbers of people are giving up their digital cameras for film.

I love my DSLR, but I also like my compact camera, I use both and
enough both.


Looking around, I see a lot of people taking photographs with
their phones, or (should I say) their all-in-one techno-centre.

Some people (actually rather a lot, and rising) find their
phone serves their record-the-moment need satisfactorily.

I suspect the market for (single-purpose) compact cameras
will be squeezed between phones getting better and DSLR's
getting smaller.

BugBear

bugbear wrote:

I suspect the market for (single-purpose) compact cameras
will be squeezed between phones getting better and DSLR's
getting smaller.

What's happening, and the reason why D-SLR sales are increasing as a
percentage of total cameras sold, are just as Australian Photo
Information Council spokesperson Paul Curtis stated last week, "Over the
last five months, digital SLR sales have soared by nearly fifty per
cent. We believe it is the cheaper low-end cameras and camera phones
which became available over the last couple of years that inspired
people into the joys of taking better photos. An SLR camera allows a
photographer to be more expressive, versatile and creative in their
picture taking."

This is isn't limited to Australia of course, we've seen similar reports
out of the U.S., China, and the U.K.. All the experts agree that as
people want to improve the quality of their photos, as well as being
able to take certain photos at all, they are buying D-SLRs. It's quite
similar to the evolution of film SLRs, when they hit the mass market the
adoption rate soared. But with D-SLRs there's another thing driving the
growth. Back in the film days, everyone had access to the same full
frame "sensors;" you bought them on rolls. You didn't have the huge
disconnect in noise and low light performance that you now have with
D-SLRs versus digital point and shoot cameras, and you didn't have all
the autofocus lag issues. The D-SLR solves problems that exist in P&S
digital cameras that film compact cameras never had.

P&S digital cameras are good for portability, and they are good enough
for snapshots taken in good light, but the world is moving to D-SLRs for
photography rather than "snapshots."

On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:58:20 +0100, bugbear
wrote:

Scott W wrote:


I don’t know of many people who now do not own a compact camera,
including me. Doesn’t it make sense that perhaps the sales of compact
cameras is going to drop as most people have them? On the other hand
most people don’t yet have a DSLR, so there is still a large potential
market for them.

If you are trying to say that sales of compact cameras are in trouble
due to DLSR you are about as deluded as some of the film people who
keep seeing a resurgence in the use of film and claim that large
numbers of people are giving up their digital cameras for film.

I love my DSLR, but I also like my compact camera, I use both and
enough both.


Looking around, I see a lot of people taking photographs with
their phones, or (should I say) their all-in-one techno-centre.

Some people (actually rather a lot, and rising) find their
phone serves their record-the-moment need satisfactorily.

I suspect the market for (single-purpose) compact cameras
will be squeezed between phones getting better and DSLR's
getting smaller.

BugBear

What? You mean that everyone is going to want a compact super-zoom
eventually? That's the exact design that both fields are focusing into,
isn't it. What's next? A camera that you can read your favorite e-books on
too while waiting for your plane to land? Just like carrying a mini-Kindle.
Oh wait, that's already been done years ago in every CHDK super-zoom
camera, as the free CHDK add-on.

Yeah, that futuristic trend is what I thought. That's why I bought into
that design of camera almost a decade ago and ditched my SLR and dSLR
time-consuming, slow-shutter image distorting, slow flash-sync,
opportunity-missing, lens-needs-changing, lead-weighted bricks. I'm never
one to follow the herd. But now that everyone is finding the vast benefits
of smaller, quieter, more adaptable, and more efficient than a dSLR with
images every bit as good; and much better image quality than a cell-phone
with the very same creative possibilities as any dSLR; I just don't feel so
trend-setting and special anymore by using and supporting super-zoom
cameras all these years.

Don't you just hate it when the rest of the world finally wakes up and
starts doing what you were first doing over a decade ago? Whether it be in
camera choices or photography style, none of them can ever think creatively
for themselves. How I hate that. Bunch of bleating and stampeding
wannabees. I resent them even more for having been so ignorant and stupid
for so long. They're losers no matter how they got from A to B.

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 23:06:26 +0100, "P&S Pete"
wrote:


"John Navas" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 10:02:05 -0700, SMS
wrote in :

P&S digital cameras are good for portability, and they are good enough
for snapshots taken in good light, but the world is moving to D-SLRs for
photography rather than "snapshots."

Nonsense.

Now, this seems funny to me.

I was lucky enough to be at a tennis tournament in London today, and in the
press pits, I saw not one pro with a super-zoom P&S.
Not one.
Why would that be?

Simple. Because 99.99% of all other "pros" that I've ever had the
misfortune to work beside are brainless herd following sheep without a
clue. They have an image to keep up. With their employers and each other.
So what if the employer is another brain-dead moron who will never realize
that P&S cameras will do just as well, if not better, for all their
photographers. They don't know **** about cameras and photography, yet they
demand that they only hire photographers that use the most expensive,
noisiest, most limiting, and most obnoxious gear. gruff moron boss voice
"Because THAT'S WHAT PROS USE! SO THERE!" /gruff moron boss voice Then
the "pros" themselves have to try to impress each other by how much money
they waste on their kits. They love nothing better than to fondly hand-hold
their penis-extenders to show the next "pro" that they are BIGGER AND
BETTER.

It has zero to do with image quality and camera functionality.

Are you really this stupid to not know this? Their choice in cameras has
NOTHING to do with the images obtained from them. It's all about the
penis-waving-show they engage in. On the field, in the office, wherever
they can make use of it. They really are that ridiculously insecure. From
employer to employee. They're all the very same penis-waving morons.

On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:06:26 +0100, P&S Pete wrote:

"John Navas" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 10:02:05 -0700, SMS
wrote in :

P&S digital cameras are good for portability, and they are good enough
for snapshots taken in good light, but the world is moving to D-SLRs
for photography rather than "snapshots."

Nonsense.

Now, this seems funny to me.

I was lucky enough to be at a tennis tournament in London today, and in
the press pits, I saw not one pro with a super-zoom P&S. Not one.
Why would that be?
These people depend on their cameras for their livelihoods, and

And most of us don't. So why would we be expected to use the same
equipment?

presumably the most successful will be the one with the sharpest,
brightest, most interesting, involving photos of the action. The man who
can move from Centre Court to Court No. 1 and back with the least
encumbrance will earn the most - who needs those big wide, heavy lenses?
These guys embrace technology - it's their living.. It isn't like the
old days, when they needed to use the medium that was most compatible
with everyone else, i.e. 35mm because that's what the papers could
handle..
Now, they simply blast off whatever photo or crop by WiFi or 3G. So why
use DSLR?
They must be the stupidest blokes on the planet - I mean, can't they
read or something?

No, they simply have a different set of parameters to work with than most
of the general populace - not everyone is a professional photographer.



Puzzled of SW19.

Just a 0.02 euros.

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 16:54:52 -0700 (PDT), SMS
wrote:

On Jul 3, 3:06*pm, "P&S Pete" wrote:

These people depend on their cameras for their livelihoods, and presumably
the most successful will be the one with the sharpest, brightest, most
interesting, involving photos of the action.

Super-zoom P&S cameras are especially poorly suited to action shots.
They could not do their job with a P&S.

I've gotten some good P&S landscape shots outdoors,

But but but ... just how do you do that SMS? We ALL know that you've never
held a camera in your lifetime. You've been clearly outted as a
basement-living pretend-photographer troll so many times, for so long. Do
you really think anyone is buying your virtual-reality role-playing crap
anymore?

Well, I guess his behavior *is* the definition of psychotic after all,
isn't it. Can't expect more than this from them.

ray wrote:

snip

And most of us don't. So why would we be expected to use the same
equipment?

Not the same equipment, since the professionals were no doubt using
high-resolution, full-frame Nikon and Canon D-SLRs to produce the
absolute best quality image that would later be printed in large sizes.
But there are many reasons for the non-professional to choose a D-SLR on
many occasions as well.

1. You shoot in low light. Modern digital SLRs are able to produce low
noise images at ISO speeds up to 1600, depending on the camera. Point
and shoot cameras, with their small sensors, begin to exhibit noise at
ISO 200, with some poorer models being too noisy even at 100 ISO.

2. You want to use flash attachments. While a few higher end point and
shoot digital models have hot shoes for an external flash, most do not.
Some Canon P&S models without hot shoes can use a wireless flash, but
it's not a great flash unit.

3. You need an extreme wide-angle lens. Digital SLRs have
super-wide-angle zoom lenses available with an effective focal length of
as little as 16mm. There are no point and shoot digital cameras with
lenses that wide. With some point and shoot cameras you can add on
adapters to increase the wide-angle range, but even the best adapters
are of mediocre quality. Some ZLR cameras do give you a moderately wide,
28mm lens.

4. You need a long telephoto lens. Whether it’s doing wildlife
photography in Alaska, or shooting at sporting events, only a digital
SLR can use long telephoto lenses. If you only need a specialty lens for
rare occasions, you can even rent one for a couple of days since they
can be rather expensive. With some point and shoot cameras you can add
on adapters to increase the telephoto range but even the best adapters
are of mediocre quality. Some ZLR cameras do give you a long telephoto
lens, but the quality is not great.

5. You need fast auto-focus. Most digital SLRs (with the exception of
Pentax) use lenses with internal high-speed focusing motors). Point and
shoot digital cameras cannot focus nearly as fast.

6. You need low shutter lag. Whether it’s photographing your child on a
merry-go-round, or capturing the crack of the bat against the baseball,
you simply cannot obtain these shots with a digital point and shoot
camera because the time between when you press the shutter and the image
is captured is far too long. A digital SLR has a mechanical shutter that
opens instantaneously when the shutter release button is pressed. In a
point and shoot camera, the sensor is activated electronically after it
is used to focus the shot.

7. You want to produce images that can be printed in large sizes. Only a
high-resolution digital SLR is suitable for poster size prints.

8. You want an optical viewfinder. While a few point and shoot cameras
have retained an optical viewfinder, it’s been cost-reduced out of most
models. Composing a picture on the LCD screen, in bright sunlight, is
very difficult, and greatly reduces battery life.

9. You want full manual control. While some high-end point and shoot
models have retained some level of manual control, most have
cost-reduced it out. On some Canon models, there is third-party software
that can get some of the manual control back, but it's very flaky and
complicated.

10. Expandability and upgradability. Not only a wide variety of
specialty lenses, but flash attachments, filters, vertical grips, remote
shutter releases, etc. If you eventually want to upgrade to a better
D-SLR body, a lot of the lenses and accessories can be used on the new
body if it’s from the same manufacturer.

11. Rapid sequencing. For action shots, both of sports and people, you
can get the exact shot you want, even when the people are moving.

12. Cost. Say what? Yes, it’s true. With the free-fall of digital SLR
prices, you can now buy a D-SLR and a decent lens for less than the cost
of a high end point and shoot camera.

13. Weight. There are now D-SLRs that are the same weight, or lighter
weight, than ZLRs, even with the lens weight included. So while most
users will still want to use a pocket-size point and shoot digital
camera when portability is more important than quality, there’s no
reason to sacrifice quality and get a large P&S camera.

14. Size. There are now D-SLRs that are the same volume, or smaller
volume, than ZLRs, even with the lens volume included. So while most
users will still want to use a pocket-size point and shoot digital
camera when portablity is more important than quality, there’s no reason
to sacrifice quality and get a large P&S camera.

15. Wide-range walk-around lenses. It used to be that people would buy a
wide-range “SLR-like� P&S because they could achieve a wide zoom range
from wide-angle to telephoto without needing to change lenses, even
though the quality of these wide-range lenses wasn’t very good at the
ends. Now with several new wide-range D-SLR lenses, there is the option
of not having to change lenses. You can still use higher quality wide
angle and telephoto lenses when the need arises, while enjoying the
simplicity of a wide-range zoom lens when you choose to not carry extra
lenses.

16. Complexity. While a D-SLR does give you the ability to have a great
deal of control, you also have the option of setting it to automatic
mode, making it no more complex than a simple point and shoot camera. If
you have the desire to expand your creative control in the future, that
capability is built in. Most point and shoot cameras lack the option for
manual control, though some Canon cameras can use a freeware program to
add some limited control.

The bottom line is that most consumers would benefit from owning both a
pocket size point and shoot model for when portability is more important
than quality, and a digital SLR for when quality, speed, and control are
more important than portability.

On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:21:09 -0700, SMS wrote:


Not the same equipment, since the professionals were no doubt using
high-resolution, full-frame Nikon and Canon D-SLRs to produce the
absolute best quality image that would later be printed in large sizes.
But there are many reasons for the non-professional to choose a D-SLR on
many occasions as well.

Dear Resident Pretend-Photographer DSLR-Troll,

Many (new & improved) points outlined below completely disprove your usual
resident-troll bull****. You can either read it and educate yourself, or
don't read it and continue to prove to everyone that you are nothing but a
virtual-photographer newsgroup-troll and a fool.


1. P&S cameras can have more seamless zoom range than any DSLR glass in
existence. (E.g. 9mm f2.7 - 1248mm f/3.5.) There are now some excellent
wide-angle and telephoto (telextender) add-on lenses for many makes and
models of P&S cameras. Add either or both of these small additions to your
photography gear and, with some of the new super-zoom P&S cameras, you can
far surpass any range of focal-lengths and apertures that are available or
will ever be made for larger format cameras.

2. P&S cameras can have much wider apertures at longer focal lengths than
any DSLR glass in existence. (E.g. 549mm f/2.4 and 1248mm f/3.5) when used
with high-quality telextenders, which do not reduce the lens' original
aperture one bit. Following is a link to a hand-held taken image of a 432mm
f/3.5 P&S lens increased to an effective 2197mm f/3.5 lens by using two
high-quality teleconverters. To achieve that apparent focal-length the
photographer also added a small step of 1.7x digital zoom to take advantage
of the RAW sensor's slightly greater detail retention when upsampled
directly in the camera for JPG output. As opposed to trying to upsample a
JPG image on the computer where those finer RAW sensor details are already
lost once it's left the camera's processing. (Digital-zoom is not totally
empty zoom, contrary to all the net-parroting idiots online.) A HAND-HELD
2197mm f/3.5 image from a P&S camera (downsized only, no crop):
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3141/...1dbdb8ac_o.jpg Note that
any in-focus details are cleanly defined to the corners and there is no CA
whatsoever. If you study the EXIF data the author reduced contrast and
sharpening by 2-steps, which accounts for the slight softness overall. Any
decent photographer will handle those operations properly in editing with
more powerful tools and not allow a camera to do them for him. A full f/3.5
aperture achieved at an effective focal-length of 2197mm (35mm equivalent).
Only DSLRs suffer from loss of aperture due to the manner in which their
teleconverters work. P&S cameras can also have higher quality full-frame
180-degree circular fisheye and intermediate super-wide-angle views than
any DSLR and its glass for far less cost. Some excellent fish-eye adapters
can be added to your P&S camera which do not impart any chromatic
aberration nor edge softness. When used with a super-zoom P&S camera this
allows you to seamlessly go from as wide as a 9mm (or even wider) 35mm
equivalent focal-length up to the wide-angle setting of the camera's own
lens.

3. P&S smaller sensor cameras can and do have wider dynamic range than
larger sensor cameras E.g. a 1/2.5" sized sensor can have a 10.3EV Dynamic
Range vs. an APS-C's typical 7.0-8.0EV Dynamic Range. One quick example:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3142/...7ceaf3a1_o.jpg

4. P&S cameras are cost efficient. Due to the smaller (but excellent)
sensors used in many of them today, the lenses for these cameras are much
smaller. Smaller lenses are easier to manufacture to exacting curvatures
and are more easily corrected for aberrations than larger glass used for
DSLRs. This also allows them to perform better at all apertures rather than
DSLR glass which usually performs well at only one aperture setting per
lens. Side by side tests prove that P&S glass can out-resolve even the best
DSLR glass ever made. See this side-by-side comparison for example
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Ca..._results.shtml
When adjusted for sensor size, the DSLR lens is creating 4.3x's the CA that
the P&S lens is creating, and the P&S lens is resolving almost 10x's the
amount of detail that the DSLR lens is resolving. A difficult to figure 20x
P&S zoom lens easily surpassing a much more easy to make 3x DSLR zoom lens.
After all is said and done you will spend anywhere from 1/10th to 1/50th
the price on a P&S camera that you would have to spend in order to get
comparable performance in a DSLR camera. To obtain the same focal-length
ranges as that $340 SX10 camera with DSLR glass that *might* approach or
equal the P&S resolution, it would cost over $6,500 to accomplish that (at
the time of this writing). This isn't counting the extra costs of a
heavy-duty tripod required to make it functional at those longer
focal-lengths and a backpack to carry it all. Bringing that DSLR investment
to over 20 times the cost of a comparable P&S camera. When you buy a DSLR
you are investing in a body that will require expensive lenses, hand-grips,
external flash units, heavy tripods, more expensive larger filters, etc.
etc. The outrageous costs of owning a DSLR add up fast after that initial
DSLR body purchase. Camera companies count on this, all the way to their
banks.

5. P&S cameras are lightweight and convenient. With just one P&S camera
plus one small wide-angle adapter and one small telephoto adapter weighing
just a couple pounds, you have the same amount of zoom range as would
require over 15 pounds of DSLR body + lenses. The P&S camera mentioned in
the previous example is only 1.3 lbs. The DSLR + expensive lenses that
*might* equal it in image quality comes in at 9.6 lbs. of dead-weight to
lug around all day (not counting the massive and expensive tripod, et.al.)
You can carry the whole P&S kit + accessory lenses in one roomy pocket of a
wind-breaker or jacket. The DSLR kit would require a sturdy backpack. You
also don't require a massive tripod. Large tripods are required to
stabilize the heavy and unbalanced mass of the larger DSLR and its massive
lenses. A P&S camera, being so light, can be used on some of the most
inexpensive, compact, and lightweight tripods with excellent results.

6. P&S cameras are silent. For the more common snap-shooter/photographer,
you will not be barred from using your camera at public events,
stage-performances, and ceremonies. Or when trying to capture candid shots
you won't so easily alert all those within a block around, by the obnoxious
clattering noise that your DSLR is making, that you are capturing anyone's
images. For the more dedicated wildlife photographer a P&S camera will not
endanger your life when photographing potentially dangerous animals by
alerting them to your presence.

7. Some P&S cameras can run the revolutionary CHDK software on them, which
allows for lightning-fast motion detection (literally, lightning fast 45ms
response time, able to capture lightning strikes automatically) so that you
may capture more elusive and shy animals (in still-frame and video) where
any evidence of your presence at all might prevent their appearance.
Without the need of carrying a tethered laptop along or any other hardware
into remote areas--which only limits your range, distance, and time
allotted for bringing back that one-of-a-kind image. It also allows for
unattended time-lapse photography for days and weeks at a time, so that you
may capture those unusual or intriguing subject-studies in nature. E.g. a
rare slime-mold's propagation, that you happened to find in a
mountain-ravine, 10-days hike from the nearest laptop or other time-lapse
hardware. (The wealth of astounding new features that CHDK brings to the
creative-table of photography are too extensive to begin to list them all
here. See http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK )

8. P&S cameras can have shutter speeds up to 1/40,000th of a second. See:
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CameraFeatures Allowing you to capture fast
subject motion in nature (e.g. insect and hummingbird wings) WITHOUT the
need of artificial and image destroying flash, using available light alone.
Nor will their wing shapes be unnaturally distorted from the focal-plane
shutter distortions imparted in any fast moving objects, as when
photographed with all DSLRs. (See focal-plane-shutter-distortions
example-image link in #10.)

9. P&S cameras can have full-frame flash-sync up to and including
shutter-speeds of 1/40,000th of a second. E.g.
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Samples:_...%26_Flash-Sync
without the use of any expensive and specialized focal-plane shutter
flash-units that must pulse their light-output for the full duration of the
shutter's curtain to pass slowly over the frame. The other downside to
those kinds of flash units is that the light-output is greatly reduced the
faster the shutter speed. Any shutter speed used that is faster than your
camera's X-Sync speed is cutting off some of the flash output. Not so when
using a leaf-shutter. The full intensity of the flash is recorded no matter
the shutter speed used. Unless, as in the case of CHDK capable cameras
where the camera's shutter speed can even be faster than the lightning-fast
single burst from a flash unit. E.g. If the flash's duration is 1/10,000 of
a second, and your CHDK camera's shutter is set to 1/20,000 of a second,
then it will only record half of that flash output. P&S cameras also don't
require any expensive and dedicated external flash unit. Any of them may be
used with any flash unit made by using an inexpensive slave-trigger that
can compensate for any automated pre-flash conditions. Example:
http://www.adorama.com/SZ23504.html

10. P&S cameras do not suffer from focal-plane shutter drawbacks and
limitations. Causing camera shake, moving-subject image distortions
(focal-plane-shutter distortions, e.g.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ch...istortions.jpg
do note the distorted tail-rotor too and its shadow on the ground,
90-degrees from one another), last-century-slow flash-sync, obnoxiously
loud slapping mirrors and shutter curtains, shorter mechanical life, easily
damaged, expensive repair costs, etc.

11. When doing wildlife photography in remote and rugged areas and harsh
environments; or even when the amateur snap-shooter is trying to take their
vacation photos on a beach or dusty intersection on some city street;
you're not worrying about trying to change lenses in time to get that shot
(fewer missed shots), dropping one in the mud, lake, surf, or on concrete
while you do; and not worrying about ruining all the rest of your photos
that day from having gotten dust & crud on the sensor. For the adventurous
photographer you're no longer weighed down by many many extra pounds of
unneeded glass, allowing you to carry more of the important supplies, like
food and water, allowing you to trek much further than you've ever been
able to travel before with your old D/SLR bricks.

12. Smaller sensors and the larger apertures available at longer
focal-lengths allow for the deep DOF required for excellent
macro-photography when using normal macro or tele-macro lens arrangements.
All done WITHOUT the need of any image destroying, subject irritating,
natural-look destroying flash. No DSLR on the planet can compare in the
quality of available-light macro photography that can be accomplished with
nearly any smaller-sensor P&S camera. (To clarify for DSLR owners/promoters
who don't even know basic photography principles: In order to obtain the
same DOF on a DSLR you'll need to stop down that lens greatly. When you do
then you have to use shutter speeds so slow that hand-held
macro-photography, even in full daylight, is all but impossible. Not even
your highest ISO is going to save you at times. The only solution for the
DSLR user is to resort to artificial flash which then ruins the subject and
the image; turning it into some staged, fake-looking, studio setup.)

13. P&S cameras include video, and some even provide for CD-quality stereo
audio recordings, so that you might capture those rare events in nature
where a still-frame alone could never prove all those "scientists" wrong.
E.g. recording the paw-drumming communication patterns of eusocial-living
field-mice. With your P&S video-capable camera in your pocket you won't
miss that once-in-a-lifetime chance to record some unexpected event, like
the passage of a bright meteor in the sky in daytime, a mid-air explosion,
or any other newsworthy event. Imagine the gaping hole in our history of
the Hindenberg if there were no film cameras there at the time. The mystery
of how it exploded would have never been solved. Or the amateur 8mm film of
the shooting of President Kennedy. Your video-ready P&S camera being with
you all the time might capture something that will be a valuable part of
human history one day.

14. P&S cameras have 100% viewfinder coverage that exactly matches your
final image. No important bits lost, and no chance of ruining your
composition by trying to "guess" what will show up in the final image. With
the ability to overlay live RGB-histograms, and under/over-exposure area
alerts (and dozens of other important shooting data) directly on your
electronic viewfinder display you are also not going to guess if your
exposure might be right this time. Nor do you have to remove your eye from
the view of your subject to check some external LCD histogram display,
ruining your chances of getting that perfect shot when it happens.

15. P&S cameras can and do focus in lower-light (which is common in natural
settings) than any DSLRs in existence, due to electronic viewfinders and
sensors that can be increased in gain for framing and focusing purposes as
light-levels drop. Some P&S cameras can even take images (AND videos) in
total darkness by using IR illumination alone. (See: Sony) No other
multi-purpose cameras are capable of taking still-frame and videos of
nocturnal wildlife as easily nor as well. Shooting videos and still-frames
of nocturnal animals in the total-dark, without disturbing their natural
behavior by the use of flash, from 90 ft. away with a 549mm f/2.4 lens is
not only possible, it's been done, many times, by myself. (An interesting
and true story: one wildlife photographer was nearly stomped to death by an
irate moose that attacked where it saw his camera's flash come from.)

16. Without the need to use flash in all situations, and a P&S's nearly
100% silent operation, you are not disturbing your wildlife, neither
scaring it away nor changing their natural behavior with your existence.
Nor, as previously mentioned, drawing its defensive behavior in your
direction. You are recording nature as it is, and should be, not some
artificial human-changed distortion of reality and nature.

17. Nature photography requires that the image be captured with the
greatest degree of accuracy possible. NO focal-plane shutter in existence,
with its inherent focal-plane-shutter distortions imparted on any moving
subject will EVER capture any moving subject in nature 100% accurately. A
leaf-shutter or electronic shutter, as is found in ALL P&S cameras, will
capture your moving subject in nature with 100% accuracy. Your P&S
photography will no longer lead a biologist nor other scientist down
another DSLR-distorted path of non-reality.

18. Some P&S cameras have shutter-lag times that are even shorter than all
the popular DSLRs, due to the fact that they don't have to move those
agonizingly slow and loud mirrors and shutter curtains in time before the
shot is recorded. In the hands of an experienced photographer that will
always rely on prefocusing their camera, there is no hit & miss
auto-focusing that happens on all auto-focus systems, DSLRs included. This
allows you to take advantage of the faster shutter response times of P&S
cameras. Any pro worth his salt knows that if you really want to get every
shot, you don't depend on automatic anything in any camera.

19. An electronic viewfinder, as exists in all P&S cameras, can accurately
relay the camera's shutter-speed in real-time. Giving you a 100% accurate
preview of what your final subject is going to look like when shot at 3
seconds or 1/20,000th of a second. Your soft waterfall effects, or the
crisp sharp outlines of your stopped-motion hummingbird wings will be 100%
accurately depicted in your viewfinder before you even record the shot.
What you see in a P&S camera is truly what you get. You won't have to guess
in advance at what shutter speed to use to obtain those artistic effects or
those scientifically accurate nature studies that you require or that your
client requires. When testing CHDK P&S cameras that could have shutter
speeds as fast as 1/40,000th of a second, I was amazed that I could
half-depress the shutter and watch in the viewfinder as a Dremel-Drill's
30,000 rpm rotating disk was stopped in crisp detail in real time, without
ever having taken an example shot yet. Similarly true when lowering shutter
speeds for milky-water effects when shooting rapids and falls, instantly
seeing the effect in your viewfinder. Poor DSLR-trolls will never realize
what they are missing with their anciently slow focal-plane shutters and
wholly inaccurate optical viewfinders.

20. P&S cameras can obtain the very same bokeh (out of focus foreground and
background) as any DSLR by just increasing your focal length, through use
of its own built-in super-zoom lens or attaching a high-quality telextender
on the front. Just back up from your subject more than you usually would
with a DSLR. Framing and the included background is relative to the subject
at the time and has nothing at all to do with the kind of camera and lens
in use. Your f/ratio (which determines your depth-of-field), is a
computation of focal-length divided by aperture diameter. Increase the
focal-length and you make your DOF shallower. No different than opening up
the aperture to accomplish the same. The two methods are identically
related where DOF is concerned.

21. P&S cameras will have perfectly fine noise-free images at lower ISOs
with just as much resolution as any DSLR camera. Experienced Pros grew up
on ISO25 and ISO64 film all their lives. They won't even care if their P&S
camera can't go above ISO400 without noise. An added bonus is that the P&S
camera can have larger apertures at longer focal-lengths than any DSLR in
existence. The time when you really need a fast lens to prevent
camera-shake that gets amplified at those focal-lengths. Even at low ISOs
you can take perfectly fine hand-held images at super-zoom settings.
Whereas the DSLR, with its very small apertures at long focal lengths
require ISOs above 3200 to obtain the same results. They need high ISOs,
you don't. If you really require low-noise high ISOs, there are some
excellent models of Fuji P&S cameras that do have noise-free images up to
ISO1600 and more.

22. Don't for one minute think that the price of your camera will in any
way determine the quality of your photography. Any of the newer cameras of
around $100 or more are plenty good for nearly any talented photographer
today. IF they have talent to begin with. A REAL pro can take an award
winning photograph with a cardboard Brownie Box Camera made a century ago.
If you can't take excellent photos on a P&S camera then you won't be able
to get good photos on a DSLR either. Never blame your inability to obtain a
good photograph on the kind of camera that you own. Those who claim they
NEED a DSLR are only fooling themselves and all others. These are the same
people that buy a new camera every year, each time thinking, "Oh, if I only
had the right camera, a better camera, better lenses, faster lenses, then I
will be a great photographer!" If they just throw enough money at their
hobby then the talent-fairy will come by one day, after just the right
offering to the DSLR gods was made, and bestow them with something that
they never had in the first place--talent. Camera company's love these
people. They'll never be able to get a camera that will make their
photography better, because they never were a good photographer to begin
with. They're forever searching for that more expensive camera that might
one day come included with that new "talent in a box" feature. The irony is
that they'll never look in the mirror to see what the real problem has been
all along. They'll NEVER become good photographers. Perhaps this is why
these self-proclaimed "pros" hate P&S cameras so much. P&S cameras
instantly reveal to them their ****-poor photography skills. It also
reveals the harsh reality that all the wealth in the world won't make them
any better at photography. It's difficult for them to face the truth.

23. Have you ever had the fun of showing some of your exceptional P&S
photography to some self-proclaimed "Pro" who uses $30,000 worth of camera
gear. They are so impressed that they must know how you did it. You smile
and tell them, "Oh, I just use a $150 P&S camera." Don't you just love the
look on their face? A half-life of self-doubt, the realization of all that
lost money, and a sadness just courses through every fiber of their being.
Wondering why they can't get photographs as good after they spent all that
time and money. Get good on your P&S camera and you too can enjoy this fun
experience.

24. Did we mention portability yet? I think we did, but it is worth
mentioning the importance of this a few times. A camera in your pocket that
is instantly ready to get any shot during any part of the day will get more
award-winning photographs than that DSLR gear that's sitting back at home,
collecting dust, and waiting to be loaded up into that expensive back-pack
or camera bag, hoping that you'll lug it around again some day.

25. A good P&S camera is a good theft deterrent. When traveling you are not
advertising to the world that you are carrying $20,000 around with you.
That's like having a sign on your back saying, "PLEASE MUG ME! I'M THIS
STUPID AND I DESERVE IT!" Keep a small P&S camera in your pocket and only
take it out when needed. You'll have a better chance of returning home with
all your photos. And should you accidentally lose your P&S camera you're
not out $20,000. They are inexpensive to replace.

There are many more reasons to add to this list but this should be more
than enough for even the most unaware person to realize that P&S cameras
are just better, all around. No doubt about it.

The phenomenon of everyone yelling "You NEED a DSLR!" can be summed up in
just one short phrase:

"If even 5 billion people are saying and doing a foolish thing, it remains
a foolish thing."

SMS wrote:
bugbear wrote:

I suspect the market for (single-purpose) compact cameras
will be squeezed between phones getting better and DSLR's
getting smaller.

What's happening, and the reason why D-SLR sales are increasing as a
percentage of total cameras sold, are just as Australian Photo
Information Council spokesperson Paul Curtis stated last week, "Over the
last five months, digital SLR sales have soared by nearly fifty per
cent. We believe it is the cheaper low-end cameras and camera phones
which became available over the last couple of years that inspired
people into the joys of taking better photos. An SLR camera allows a
photographer to be more expressive, versatile and creative in their
picture taking."

This is isn't limited to Australia of course, we've seen similar reports
out of the U.S., China, and the U.K.. All the experts agree that as
people want to improve the quality of their photos, as well as being
able to take certain photos at all, they are buying D-SLRs. It's quite
similar to the evolution of film SLRs, when they hit the mass market the
adoption rate soared. But with D-SLRs there's another thing driving the
growth. Back in the film days, everyone had access to the same full
frame "sensors;" you bought them on rolls. You didn't have the huge
disconnect in noise and low light performance that you now have with
D-SLRs versus digital point and shoot cameras, and you didn't have all
the autofocus lag issues. The D-SLR solves problems that exist in P&S
digital cameras that film compact cameras never had.

P&S digital cameras are good for portability, and they are good enough
for snapshots taken in good light, but the world is moving to D-SLRs for
photography rather than "snapshots."

In the days of film cameras there was a well established long lasting
market for simple compact cameras which the SLR photographer could
carry in a pocket "just in case", and which had good enough lenses to
deliver photographs of SLR quality. In the digital world such high
quality compacts do not quite yet exist, due to various technological
problems afflicting current P&S technology.

But some makers of high-end P&S are clearly aiming at that kind of
buyer. The AF "shutter" lag of image sensor contrast based autofocus
is one of the residual problems. But it's a problem that will be
solved sooner or later one way or another. As will other problems
peculiar to digital compacts, such as high ISO noise. At which time I
expect to see that kind of market niche established in the digital
camera world.

--
Chris Malcolm

On Sat, 4 Jul 2009 09:52:02 +0100, "P&S Pete"
wrote:


"ray" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:06:26 +0100, P&S Pete wrote:

"John Navas" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 10:02:05 -0700, SMS
wrote in :

P&S digital cameras are good for portability, and they are good enough
for snapshots taken in good light, but the world is moving to D-SLRs
for photography rather than "snapshots."

Nonsense.

Now, this seems funny to me.

I was lucky enough to be at a tennis tournament in London today, and in
the press pits, I saw not one pro with a super-zoom P&S. Not one.
Why would that be?
These people depend on their cameras for their livelihoods, and

And most of us don't. So why would we be expected to use the same
equipment?

But I'm not talking about the rest of us - I'm talking about the press.
A builder doesn't buy a Black&Decker drill, he buys a Makita or a de Walt
for two or three times the price.
Does he buy this because of some putative construction industry
willy-waving?
No, he buys it because it does the job and is robust enough for his needs.



presumably the most successful will be the one with the sharpest,
brightest, most interesting, involving photos of the action. The man who
can move from Centre Court to Court No. 1 and back with the least
encumbrance will earn the most - who needs those big wide, heavy lenses?
These guys embrace technology - it's their living.. It isn't like the
old days, when they needed to use the medium that was most compatible
with everyone else, i.e. 35mm because that's what the papers could
handle..
Now, they simply blast off whatever photo or crop by WiFi or 3G. So why
use DSLR?
They must be the stupidest blokes on the planet - I mean, can't they
read or something?

No, they simply have a different set of parameters to work with than most
of the general populace - not everyone is a professional photographer.

Agreed that they have a different set of parameters, but if something
cheaper and lighter does the job, you'd be mad not to use it, but I don't
see these guys zonked out on meds, or with white-coated minders.
Don't forget, it's all about content according to our resident
laughing-stock, so if you can capture more and better content with a super
zoom P&S, why not use it and vastly enhance your earning-power - I mean,
what's willy-waving if you can't aford a decent lifestyle?

Dear resident laughing stock, insert your easily detectable 24K of BS just
HERE


No need to. You made a laughing-stock of yourself all by ignorant little
self. You don't need my help.