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Developing tubes



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 6th 04, 04:49 PM
Argon3
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Default Developing tubes

In a previous thread, Don Qualls wrote:

FWIW, if you can operate a hand saw and power drill, you can make
developing tubes with daylight fill and drain. I did it, and they work
great for the Fomapan 100 from my plate cameras...


May I ask if Don has any plans or reference on how the tubes are made? I
wouldn't mind trying to knock a few up and give them a try. I'm currently
stalking a set of tanks and hangers while using a HP Combiplan set for
developing.

best

argon


  #2  
Old October 6th 04, 08:19 PM
Donald Qualls
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Argon3 wrote:

In a previous thread, Don Qualls wrote:


FWIW, if you can operate a hand saw and power drill, you can make
developing tubes with daylight fill and drain. I did it, and they work
great for the Fomapan 100 from my plate cameras...



May I ask if Don has any plans or reference on how the tubes are made? I
wouldn't mind trying to knock a few up and give them a try. I'm currently
stalking a set of tanks and hangers while using a HP Combiplan set for
developing.


I haven't yet gotten around to uploading a web page showing these tubes
-- they're pretty simple, though. For 9x12 cm or 4x5, you need 1.5" ABS
"cellular core" tube, cut to either 3 1/2" length (for 9x12) or 5"
length (for 4x5), two caps (at least one the type with an internal space
past the bottom of the gluing socket), and materials for making a light
trap in the cap with space inside. My light trap consists of a piece of
gray PVC pipe (white isn't, IMO, opaque enough to prevent oblique rays
from getting past the baffle with a single reflection, which could cause
fogging), a cap that fits that pipe (to provide liquid retention for
inversion), and a piece of black ABS sheet thick enough to be opaque (I
used 1/8" because 3/32" didn't seem quite opaque, to my eye) and cut to
fit past the gluing socket with clearances for pouring liquid. Light
that enters down the PVC filling tube must reflect at least twice (from
the black ABS sheet and from the inside of the cap) to reach the film;
use of textured ABS sheet and the matte finish on the inside of the cap
keep such reflections diffuse enough to prevent fogging even with
prolonged exposure.



| |
| |
| |
+------| |------+
| _______________ |
| |
| |


View above in a fixed width font, please.

The PVC filler tube is secured to the ABS cap with "transition cement"
made specifically for joining PVC pipe to ABS pipe; this is covered with
black ABS cement to provide additional light security. The same black
ABS cement is used to fix the light baffle inside the cap. I don't glue
any of the caps to the pipe, though, other than the filling tube in the
drilled hole; it's nice to be able to take the unit completely apart for
cleaning, and makes it easy to load, too.

Dead simple, cost about $5 each for the fitting parts and segment of
pipe (you have to buy at least five, probably ten feet of each size
pipe, though). Made to minimum size for 9x12 cm, they hold six ounces;
same for 4x5 ought to hold about 8 ounces, which makes them wonderful
for high dilutions or developer that can be reused or replenished. If
you want or need to economize, you could make a liquid tight core of
some sort that would attach to the inside of the light baffle and take
up volume, possibly getting capacity per tube as low as 2 ounces for
4x5, which is the same volume per film area as stainless steel 35 mm
tanks. Additional versatility point -- with a 1.5" ABS pipe coupler,
you can join two lengths of the pipe and develop two sheets with a
single filler and base cap set, though I don't recommend going longer
than that. It's nice, though, for ensuring that two sheets (for a
comparison test, perhaps) get identical development.

With more effort and parts, one could make a nice simulation of the Jobo
Expert tanks -- bad news is, 4" appears to be the biggest common size of
ABS pipe and fittings, which will only accomodate three 1.5" tubes (with
clearance for their caps). Good news is, with doubled tubes using
couplers, as above, that would let you develop six sheets with about 24
ounces of liquid for 9x12, or 32 ounces in 4x5, with inversion; probably
much less if built to accomodate roll agitation. One could go bigger,
but doing so would require fabricating the upper part of the tank from
sheet, which seems likely to be prone to leakage of both liguid and light.

Minor point -- try to get real PVC pipe for the filler tube; I used a
prethreaded nipple, and found the injection molded part was sufficiently
out of round away from the threads that one of my three tubes leaks
significantly when inverted; the cap for the PVC should push on tightly
enough to require a twist to get it off, what's referred to as
"interference" fit, and if so, it will be liquid tight.

This design is based on the one I cribbed for my 16 mm cored developing
tank, which uses two ounces of liquid to process two feet of 16 mm film;
that, in turn, is slightly modified from one I found on the web (but I
lost my bookmarks recently, so I'd have to suggest a Google search or a
look around submini.org to find the page with that design -- it was for
Minox format film, which should help your Googling).

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.
  #3  
Old October 7th 04, 03:06 AM
Jos. Burke
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Posts: n/a
Default

I'll hook you up with the full BTZS 4x5 package (6 tubes with tray and
instructions) for $100. In perfect "as new" condition and includes shipping!
I have a Jobo Expert Drum and CPP 2 processor so no longer use the tubes but
they work great!!
J Burke
"Argon3" wrote in message
...
In a previous thread, Don Qualls wrote:

FWIW, if you can operate a hand saw and power drill, you can make
developing tubes with daylight fill and drain. I did it, and they work
great for the Fomapan 100 from my plate cameras...


May I ask if Don has any plans or reference on how the tubes are made? I
wouldn't mind trying to knock a few up and give them a try. I'm currently
stalking a set of tanks and hangers while using a HP Combiplan set for
developing.

best

argon




  #5  
Old October 7th 04, 12:58 PM
Donald Qualls
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Default

Jos. Burke wrote:

I'll hook you up with the full BTZS 4x5 package (6 tubes with tray and
instructions) for $100. In perfect "as new" condition and includes shipping!
I have a Jobo Expert Drum and CPP 2 processor so no longer use the tubes but
they work great!!


Important consideration with BTZS -- they are *not* daylight fill and
drain; they have to be filled in the dark and capped before the lights
are turned on. You can make ABS tubes that work that way by simply
cutting the pipe to length, smoothing (as you would also do, to prevent
film scratching), and proceeding as if you own BTZS tubes. That would
cost about $3.50 to $4 per tube, assuming you make enough to use the
full length of pipe. Throw in an 11x14 print tray ($7 or so new, IIRC),
and you have a similar set for under $40. Load the tubes, push on the
"bottom" cap, stand tubes on end (bundle together with rubber bands if
desired, though that might make it hard to get the caps on after
filling), fill with developer, and turn on the lights as you give the
first agitations. When ready to drain the dev, turn off the lights;
turn 'em back on after the fixer has been in for a minute or after
capping with fixer in the tanks. Roll agitation is not, IMO, superior
to inversion for this type of tank, and though it might allow use of
less liquid per tube, there's also a danger of uneven development due to
the time required to fill, cap, and start agitation.

I prefer the daylight fill model, since I a) don't have a full darkroom
(yet), and b) find it hard to pour developer accurately in the dark.
Yes, it's more work to make -- but you only have to do that work once.
Filling BTZS tubes in the dark will have to be done every time you use
them, for as long as you have them. BTW, fill and drain time for my
tubes, using 1/2" PVC pipe for the fill tube, is on the order of five
seconds; the limitation is more in how fast I can pour from my (very,
very cheap) graduates without spilling than in how fast liquid will flow
in or out of the tube past the light baffle.

Oh, I might mention, too, if you use larger film than 4x5, you can do up
to 5x7 inch (or 13x18 cm) in 2" pipe, 8x10 inch in 3", and 4" pipe will
take film (or prints, if you like) up to 12x20", though that size tank
will require a lot of liquid and will be quite heavy when full if you
don't make a core for it.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.
  #6  
Old October 8th 04, 01:57 AM
Jorge Gasteazoro
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Posts: n/a
Default

Donald Qualls wrote in message .com...
Jos. Burke wrote:

I'll hook you up with the full BTZS 4x5 package (6 tubes with tray and
instructions) for $100. In perfect "as new" condition and includes shipping!
I have a Jobo Expert Drum and CPP 2 processor so no longer use the tubes but
they work great!!





Filling BTZS tubes in the dark will have to be done every time you use
them, for as long as you have them. BTW, fill and drain time for my
tubes, using 1/2" PVC pipe for the fill tube, is on the order of five
seconds; the limitation is more in how fast I can pour from my (very,
very cheap) graduates without spilling than in how fast liquid will flow
in or out of the tube past the light baffle.


--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.


Donald, buddy, have you thought of filling the cap BEFORE you turn off
the lights and then load the film and close the tube in the dark? It
is what I do, I have a set up where the caps are held on a piece of
wood with the film containers standing behind them, I fill the caps
with developer, I turn off the lights, load all the films in the
container, screw into the cap with developer and then turn on the
lights. With the lights on I dip the tubes in the water bath at one
minute intervals, I can do 6 8x10s this way.
  #7  
Old October 8th 04, 01:29 PM
Shelley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Filling BTZS tubes in the dark will have to be done every time you use
them, for as long as you have them.


Wrong on two counts. First, you don't fill the tubes, you fill the caps.
Second, you fill the caps in the light, not in the dark. You can proceed
from there either of two ways depending on whether you have one or two caps
per tube but either way the caps are filled with developer in the light. I
can't imagine why anyone would fill the caps in the dark.


"Jorge Gasteazoro" wrote in message
om...
Donald Qualls wrote in message

.com...
Jos. Burke wrote:

I'll hook you up with the full BTZS 4x5 package (6 tubes with tray and
instructions) for $100. In perfect "as new" condition and includes

shipping!
I have a Jobo Expert Drum and CPP 2 processor so no longer use the

tubes but
they work great!!





Filling BTZS tubes in the dark will have to be done every time you use
them, for as long as you have them. BTW, fill and drain time for my
tubes, using 1/2" PVC pipe for the fill tube, is on the order of five
seconds; the limitation is more in how fast I can pour from my (very,
very cheap) graduates without spilling than in how fast liquid will flow
in or out of the tube past the light baffle.


--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.


Donald, buddy, have you thought of filling the cap BEFORE you turn off
the lights and then load the film and close the tube in the dark? It
is what I do, I have a set up where the caps are held on a piece of
wood with the film containers standing behind them, I fill the caps
with developer, I turn off the lights, load all the films in the
container, screw into the cap with developer and then turn on the
lights. With the lights on I dip the tubes in the water bath at one
minute intervals, I can do 6 8x10s this way.



  #8  
Old October 8th 04, 08:13 PM
Donald Qualls
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Default

Shelley wrote:

Filling BTZS tubes in the dark will have to be done every time you use
them, for as long as you have them.



Wrong on two counts. First, you don't fill the tubes, you fill the caps.
Second, you fill the caps in the light, not in the dark. You can proceed
from there either of two ways depending on whether you have one or two caps
per tube but either way the caps are filled with developer in the light. I
can't imagine why anyone would fill the caps in the dark.


snip previous thread content


Donald, buddy, have you thought of filling the cap BEFORE you turn off
the lights and then load the film and close the tube in the dark? It
is what I do, I have a set up where the caps are held on a piece of
wood with the film containers standing behind them, I fill the caps
with developer, I turn off the lights, load all the films in the
container, screw into the cap with developer and then turn on the
lights. With the lights on I dip the tubes in the water bath at one
minute intervals, I can do 6 8x10s this way.


You're right, that hadn't occurred to me -- probably because I load my
tubes in a changing bag; I don't (yet) have a genuine darkroom, or even
a room with running water that I can make dark (like a bathroom). The
house I just moved into has huge windows in both bathrooms, and since my
wife insists on curtains, a simple cover for the inside isn't easy to
arrange.

I still prefer daylight fill, at least as an option. I can do the BTZS
method with my existing tubes with little (and cheap) modification, if I
choose, and you can't use BTZS tubes with enough liquid to (for
instance) stand develop without filling them in the dark come stop bath
time; stand and semi-stand are options I like to have.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.
  #9  
Old October 9th 04, 03:07 AM
Jorge Gasteazoro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Donald Qualls wrote in message .com...
Shelley wrote:


You're right, that hadn't occurred to me -- probably because I load my
tubes in a changing bag; I don't (yet) have a genuine darkroom, or even
a room with running water that I can make dark (like a bathroom). The
house I just moved into has huge windows in both bathrooms, and since my
wife insists on curtains, a simple cover for the inside isn't easy to
arrange.

I still prefer daylight fill, at least as an option. I can do the BTZS
method with my existing tubes with little (and cheap) modification, if I
choose, and you can't use BTZS tubes with enough liquid to (for
instance) stand develop without filling them in the dark come stop bath
time; stand and semi-stand are options I like to have.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.


Ah Donald, you unbeleiver...:-)) You can fill the longer container in
the light and then just load the film if you have a stand to hold the
containers. Is what I do when I want to do this too...of course the
welding rod tubes are longer than the film, this might be a spilling
problem with the 4x5 tubes made by the VC store. OTOH, I dont think
anybody is saying your idea is bad, just not practical for those of us
with 10 thumbs...:-))
  #10  
Old October 10th 04, 02:39 AM
Donald Qualls
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Posts: n/a
Default

Jorge Gasteazoro wrote:


Ah Donald, you unbeleiver...:-)) You can fill the longer container in
the light and then just load the film if you have a stand to hold the
containers. Is what I do when I want to do this too...of course the
welding rod tubes are longer than the film, this might be a spilling
problem with the 4x5 tubes made by the VC store. OTOH, I dont think
anybody is saying your idea is bad, just not practical for those of us
with 10 thumbs...:-))


Hmm. Okay, maybe it would work for stand development -- if I'm reading
this right, you're suggesting filling the tube(s) with dev, then turning
off the light and individually putting the film sheets into the full
tubes. I see that, including getting the film out of the holders, as
likely to put ten or fifteen minutes between the first sheet and the
last going into the soup. Probably still okay if your dev time is at
least ninety minutes...

And still completely impractical if you load in a changing bag. Thanks,
but no liquids in my bag, please...

We all use the methods that fit our needs and abilities. I don't find
it at all hard to fabricate these tubes (the hardest part was cutting
the ABS sheet, because my bandsaw was in storage at the time), but doing
the necessary carpentry and whatnot to make a bathroom into a darkroom
takes me months of preparation, not to mention costing my hobby budget
for most of those months (yep, that means buying no film for quite some
time -- not a good thing).

If, OTOH, you have a genuine darkroom, but don't trust yourself with a
saw or power drill, then by all means stick with BTZS or welding rod tubes.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.
 




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