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#1
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8dB snr increase?
(Just beating Rich or Focus to it.. don't go here if a Sony hater..(O
http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1213308645.html So it appears there are still advances to be made, improvements yet to come... Ok, it's only a 5Mp sensor at this point, but if this design (which makes me think, why haven't they done this before? (or have they? - this isn't really my field)...) can be produced relatively cheaply and for higher res sensors as well, it will put some good competitive pressure back into the market. |
#2
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8dB snr increase?
Mark Thomas wrote:
(Just beating Rich or Focus to it.. don't go here if a Sony hater..(O http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1213308645.html So it appears there are still advances to be made, improvements yet to come... Ok, it's only a 5Mp sensor at this point, but if this design (which makes me think, why haven't they done this before? (or have they? - this isn't really my field)...) can be produced relatively cheaply and for higher res sensors as well, it will put some good competitive pressure back into the market. I didn't see where it was cheap but that'd be great. I would get a Nikon D30 Fx format even at 4MP if it was cheap & small. "Conventionally, consumer digital video camcorders and digital still cameras have been required to combine high resolution capable of capturing every detail of the subject matter, and miniaturization oriented to portability. In order to meet these needs, image sensor development has focused on miniaturizing pixel size, while maintaining imaging characteristics. However, in addition to these ongoing requirements, in recent years demand for improved levels of minimum subject illuminance and rapid image capture has also increased. This has led to the requirement of image sensors with improved signal-to-noise ratio and other features capable of realizing improved overall picture quality." It seems I've heard of back illuminated in astro & scientific work... Large-Format Science-Grade CMOS Active Pixel Sensors for Extreme ... http://www.ercim.org/publication/Erc...5/waltham.html 515 Full Frames per Second Ideal for highly dynamic, low light experiments. http://www.andor.com/scientific_came...roductCodeID=1 -- Paul Furman www.edgehill.net www.baynatives.com all google groups messages filtered due to spam |
#3
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8dB snr increase?
Mark Thomas wrote:
(Just beating Rich or Focus to it.. don't go here if a Sony hater..(O http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1213308645.html So it appears there are still advances to be made, improvements yet to come... Ok, it's only a 5Mp sensor at this point, but if this design (which makes me think, why haven't they done this before? (or have they? - this isn't really my field)...) can be produced relatively cheaply and for higher res sensors as well, it will put some good competitive pressure back into the market. I just wish that Fuji had presented a document like this, instead of the mystique that they have allowed to surround their supposed high-ISO performance. Thanks for the pointer, Mark. Good ISO 10,000 on a DSLR? David |
#4
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8dB snr increase?
Mark Thomas wrote:
(Just beating Rich or Focus to it.. don't go here if a Sony hater..(O http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1213308645.html So it appears there are still advances to be made, improvements yet to come... Ok, it's only a 5Mp sensor at this point, but if this design (which makes me think, why haven't they done this before? (or have they? - this isn't really my field)...) can be produced relatively cheaply and for higher res sensors as well, it will put some good competitive pressure back into the market. Thanks Mark, Interesting. As Sony are definitely not noise champions, this could help them catch up to Canon. As I said recently, it would be good if they could reduce noise coming in before trying to filter it with resultant resolution loss. I wonder if they intend to ramp this up to a FF sensor at 16 Mpix or higher... (They'd probably sell it to Nikon beofore putting it in their own body.) Cheers, Alan. -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. |
#5
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8dB snr increase?
Mark Thomas wrote:
(Just beating Rich or Focus to it.. don't go here if a Sony hater..(O http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1213308645.html So it appears there are still advances to be made, improvements yet to come... Ok, it's only a 5Mp sensor at this point, but if this design (which makes me think, why haven't they done this before? snip From the site: " However, compared to conventional front-illuminated structures, back-illuminated structures commonly causes problems such as noise, dark current, defective pixels and color mixture that lead to image degradation and also cause a decrease in the signal-to-noise ratio." There's your answer. |
#6
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8dB snr increase?
In article BAx4k.4229$Mu.1821@trndny07, Marvin says...
From the site: " However, compared to conventional front-illuminated structures, back-illuminated structures commonly causes problems such as noise, dark current, defective pixels and color mixture that lead to image degradation and also cause a decrease in the signal-to-noise ratio." There's your answer. Why would a gain in sensitivity by a factor of 3 produce higher noise levels? Doesn't make sense. Spectral efficiency of standard front-illuminated sensors is less than 30%, while it's close to 100% for back-illuminated sensors. -- Alfred Molon ------------------------------ Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site |
#7
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8dB snr increase?
? "Paul Furman" ?????? ??? ?????? ... Mark Thomas wrote: (Just beating Rich or Focus to it.. don't go here if a Sony hater..(O http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1213308645.html So it appears there are still advances to be made, improvements yet to come... Ok, it's only a 5Mp sensor at this point, but if this design (which makes me think, why haven't they done this before? (or have they? - this isn't really my field)...) can be produced relatively cheaply and for higher res sensors as well, it will put some good competitive pressure back into the market. I didn't see where it was cheap but that'd be great. I would get a Nikon D30 Fx format even at 4MP if it was cheap & small. "Conventionally, consumer digital video camcorders and digital still cameras have been required to combine high resolution capable of capturing every detail of the subject matter, and miniaturization oriented to portability. In order to meet these needs, image sensor development has focused on miniaturizing pixel size, while maintaining imaging characteristics. However, in addition to these ongoing requirements, in recent years demand for improved levels of minimum subject illuminance and rapid image capture has also increased. This has led to the requirement of image sensors with improved signal-to-noise ratio and other features capable of realizing improved overall picture quality." It seems I've heard of back illuminated in astro & scientific work... Large-Format Science-Grade CMOS Active Pixel Sensors for Extreme ... http://www.ercim.org/publication/Erc...5/waltham.html 515 Full Frames per Second Ideal for highly dynamic, low light experiments. Yes, but have you heard of the F frame cat sensor? It can be found in any adult cat, and because it has a tapetus lucidum has excellent night vision (low light), also very good MP rating in bright light, the problem is meowing which can distract from picture taking. -- Tzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr |
#8
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8dB snr increase?
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:
Paul Furman wrote: Mark Thomas wrote: (Just beating Rich or Focus to it.. don't go here if a Sony hater..(O http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1213308645.html So it appears there are still advances to be made, improvements yet to come... Ok, it's only a 5Mp sensor at this point, but if this design (which makes me think, why haven't they done this before? (or have they? - this isn't really my field)...) can be produced relatively cheaply and for higher res sensors as well, it will put some good competitive pressure back into the market. I didn't see where it was cheap but that'd be great. I would get a Nikon D30 Fx format even at 4MP if it was cheap & small. I meant 5MP as stated. 6MP would be better. "Conventionally, consumer digital video camcorders and digital still cameras have been required to combine high resolution capable of capturing every detail of the subject matter, and miniaturization oriented to portability. In order to meet these needs, image sensor development has focused on miniaturizing pixel size, while maintaining imaging characteristics. However, in addition to these ongoing requirements, in recent years demand for improved levels of minimum subject illuminance and rapid image capture has also increased. This has led to the requirement of image sensors with improved signal-to-noise ratio and other features capable of realizing improved overall picture quality." It seems I've heard of back illuminated in astro & scientific work... Large-Format Science-Grade CMOS Active Pixel Sensors for Extreme ... http://www.ercim.org/publication/Erc...5/waltham.html 515 Full Frames per Second Ideal for highly dynamic, low light experiments. Yes, but have you heard of the F frame cat sensor? It can be found in any adult cat, and because it has a tapetus lucidum has excellent night vision (low light), also very good MP rating in bright light, the problem is meowing which can distract from picture taking. Meowing wouldn't bother me if the cat could produce a raw file g. -- Paul Furman www.edgehill.net www.baynatives.com all google groups messages filtered due to spam |
#9
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8dB snr increase?
? "Paul Furman" ?????? ??? ?????? ... Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote: Paul Furman wrote: Mark Thomas wrote: (Just beating Rich or Focus to it.. don't go here if a Sony hater..(O http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1213308645.html So it appears there are still advances to be made, improvements yet to come... Ok, it's only a 5Mp sensor at this point, but if this design (which makes me think, why haven't they done this before? (or have they? - this isn't really my field)...) can be produced relatively cheaply and for higher res sensors as well, it will put some good competitive pressure back into the market. I didn't see where it was cheap but that'd be great. I would get a Nikon D30 Fx format even at 4MP if it was cheap & small. I meant 5MP as stated. 6MP would be better. "Conventionally, consumer digital video camcorders and digital still cameras have been required to combine high resolution capable of capturing every detail of the subject matter, and miniaturization oriented to portability. In order to meet these needs, image sensor development has focused on miniaturizing pixel size, while maintaining imaging characteristics. However, in addition to these ongoing requirements, in recent years demand for improved levels of minimum subject illuminance and rapid image capture has also increased. This has led to the requirement of image sensors with improved signal-to-noise ratio and other features capable of realizing improved overall picture quality." It seems I've heard of back illuminated in astro & scientific work... Large-Format Science-Grade CMOS Active Pixel Sensors for Extreme ... http://www.ercim.org/publication/Erc...5/waltham.html 515 Full Frames per Second Ideal for highly dynamic, low light experiments. Yes, but have you heard of the F frame cat sensor? It can be found in any adult cat, and because it has a tapetus lucidum has excellent night vision (low light), also very good MP rating in bright light, the problem is meowing which can distract from picture taking. Meowing wouldn't bother me if the cat could produce a raw file g. Of course, it will eat a raw fillet;-) -- Tzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist hordad AT otenet DOT gr |
#10
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8dB snr increase?
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Alfred Molon ], who wrote in article : From the site: " However, compared to conventional front-illuminated structures, back-illuminated structures commonly causes problems such as noise, dark current, defective pixels and color mixture that lead to image degradation and also cause a decrease in the signal-to-noise ratio." There's your answer. Why would a gain in sensitivity by a factor of 3 produce higher noise levels? Doesn't make sense. ??? A radically different manufacturing process could produce radically different noise level... Spectral efficiency of standard front-illuminated sensors is less than 30%, while it's close to 100% for back-illuminated sensors. Do not think so. Front-illuminated sensor have the apex QE (in their spectral-response curve) closer to 45% (it is the Bayer filter which reduces the QE 3x, to the current value of about 15%; but Bayer filter remain on most of these new designes). I should not expect more than 90% back-illuminated performance from a mass-produced first-generation chip (of course, in 3 years it may become much better than scientific-grade equipment - due to major R&D money flow). Yours, Ilya |
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