If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?
On 6/8/2018 1:22 PM, Sammy wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jun 2018 10:18:35 -0400, Ken Hart wrote: On 06/08/2018 07:09 AM, Sammy wrote: What exactly is different about a lens in Macro mode? Does the lens alter its optics in some way to focus more closely? My Galaxy S7 lens doesn't seem to have enough space inside to shift any elements in a different way. Although my point and shoot has a lens which comes forward and is made of 6 elements in 5 groups. How do these cameras provide Macro mode? If a camera can provide close up macro focusing then why isn't it provided as part of Normal mode? The simple answer is in order to focus more closely, the lens must be moved farther away from the focal plane (the film or image sensor). This is why, in the "old days", we had bellows units (or extension tubes) that could be fitted between the lens and camera body. A common large format view camera is designed with a bellows and focusing rail that may allow the lens to move away from the film sufficiently to give 1:1 magnification. That's the simple answer, and generally applies to a common single element convex lens. Very few cameras use a single element convex lens- the Holga is a common exception. If you want an exact, specific answer, it will cost you: probably a PhD in physics and light, and in mechanics. See you back here in six to eight years! The cheap and dirty macro method is to get a set of close-up lenses that mount on the front of your camera lens. I get quite reasonable results (good enough for eBay) by holding a +2 close-up lens in front of my point & shoot camera. I get exceptional results by mounting a bellows or extension tubes on my 35mm SLR and using a macro lens. Thanks for the answer. My smartphone camera and my point and shoot don't seem to have any arrangement to move lenses further out or do much anything different. Is Macro mode on such cameras essentially a con because their Normal mode can focus as close as macro mode? It depends. For example, I use a Nikon 105 f2.8 micro. It does not open as wide as 2.8 on my cameras. Here's a link to a discussion of the issue: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/2248343 -- PeterN |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?
On 6/9/2018 3:30 AM, newshound wrote:
On 09/06/2018 06:48, David Taylor wrote: On 08/06/2018 12:09, Sammy wrote: What exactly is different about a lens in Macro mode?Â* Does the lens alter its optics in some way to focus more closely? My Galaxy S7 lens doesn't seem to have enough space inside to shift any elements in a different way.Â* Although my point and shoot has a lens which comes forward and is made of 6 elements in 5 groups.Â* How do these cameras provide Macro mode? If a camera can provide close up macro focusing then why isn't it provided as part of Normal mode? In some cases, it's because it would slow down focussing if the software had to search from a very close macro out to infinity each time to determine the best focus point.Â* In other cases - e.g. a macro lens for a interchangeable lens camera - the lens may be designed to work best when focussing close (have fewer imperfections), and of course it has that closer focussing range. Agreed, also reduces the risk of the camera trying to focus on something between the lens and subject, like wire fencing, window glass, or even raindrops on the front element. I don't know whether my canon compacts also shift an internal element in macro mode, but they certainly do a remarkably good job. That is only part of the reason my 80-400 can be easily set not not focus closer than 6m, and my 70-200 can be set not to focus closer than 2.5m.. -- PeterN |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote: My smartphone camera and my point and shoot don't seem to have any arrangement to move lenses further out or do much anything different. not all lenses do because macro is nowhere near as common as ordinary photos. Is Macro mode on such cameras essentially a con because their Normal mode can focus as close as macro mode? no, and it can't. if you want to do macro with a lens that lacks a macro setting or can't focus close enough, get a closeup lens attachment. an alternative method was to reverse the lens, that won't work for cellphones or point & shoot cameras, which is what the original poster has. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote: My smartphone camera and my point and shoot don't seem to have any arrangement to move lenses further out or do much anything different. not all lenses do because macro is nowhere near as common as ordinary photos. Is Macro mode on such cameras essentially a con because their Normal mode can focus as close as macro mode? no, and it can't. if you want to do macro with a lens that lacks a macro setting or can't focus close enough, get a closeup lens attachment. an alternative method was to reverse the lens, that won't work for cellphones or point & shoot cameras, which is what the original poster has. He wasn;t asking to be able to do it but was asking why he can't which is differnt, he mentioned cameras he had, ones where reversing the lens is not possible. the overall cheapst method is to use a water droplet on the 'lens' of a cellphone camera, that's only cheap for a few seconds. then, when the phone stops working due to water ingress, it becomes very expensive. not all phones are water resistant. it's probbaly not practical on a P&S unless you can get a really big droplet on the lens. even less likely to be water resistant. closeup lenses are cheap, although the better ones not so much. |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote: I doubt his P&S will work with a closeup lens anyway as it doesnlt have any moving elemnts so would be very difficult to focus. the lenses on p&s cameras definitely have moving elements, making it trivial to not only focus, but also zoom. some might even have a macro setting. the problem is that not all p&s cameras allow for easily mounting anything in front of the lens. however, there's always duct tape for phones, it's easy to add a closeup lens. it just clips on: https://d3nj7353mvgauu.cloudfront.ne...roducts/macro- 21x-lens-8-7-black-12-130e/4a75583da68f23aa000fff7ea084dd03.jpg |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote: I doubt his P&S will work with a closeup lens anyway as it doesnlt have any moving elemnts so would be very difficult to focus. the lenses on p&s cameras definitely have moving elements, Not all of them do, the cheaper ones don't. just about all of them do, including the cheaper ones. making it trivial to not only focus, but also zoom. some might even have a macro setting. dependiong on what's meant by macro. it might not be 1:1 (or bigger), but most people don't need that. the problem is that not all p&s cameras allow for easily mounting anything in front of the lens. I know. however, there's always duct tape Not something I'd use due to the residue left and the mess it'd make. no residue or mess needed. for phones, it's easy to add a closeup lens. it just clips on: https://d3nj7353mvgauu.cloudfront.ne...roducts/macro- 21x-lens-8-7-black-12-130e/4a75583da68f23aa000fff7ea084dd03.jpg provided you have the right one for the camera. But then again you can use virtually any sort of lens a magnifying glass will do. only if quality is not a goal. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?
On 6/12/2018 11:42 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Whisky-dave wrote: I doubt his P&S will work with a closeup lens anyway as it doesnlt have any moving elemnts so would be very difficult to focus. the lenses on p&s cameras definitely have moving elements, Not all of them do, the cheaper ones don't. just about all of them do, including the cheaper ones. making it trivial to not only focus, but also zoom. some might even have a macro setting. dependiong on what's meant by macro. it might not be 1:1 (or bigger), but most people don't need that. the problem is that not all p&s cameras allow for easily mounting anything in front of the lens. I know. however, there's always duct tape Not something I'd use due to the residue left and the mess it'd make. no residue or mess needed. for phones, it's easy to add a closeup lens. it just clips on: https://d3nj7353mvgauu.cloudfront.ne...roducts/macro- 21x-lens-8-7-black-12-130e/4a75583da68f23aa000fff7ea084dd03.jpg provided you have the right one for the camera. But then again you can use virtually any sort of lens a magnifying glass will do. only if quality is not a goal. I was going to stay out of this, but feel an obligation to those who might not be familiar with macro. An adapter that adds a piece of glass usually does not result in a high quality macro lens. Some, clip on lenses for the iPhone can produce a reasonably decent quality image. If you do your research, you will see which ones work for you. Similarly, some close up attachments for a P&S camera may, give you a satisfactory image, but that is not very likely. Most inexpensive P&S cameras don't have high quality sensors or glass. Again, do your research, as you will find that some P&S cameras will give you what you want. -- PeterN |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?
In article , PeterN
wrote: An adapter that adds a piece of glass usually does not result in a high quality macro lens. Some, clip on lenses for the iPhone can produce a reasonably decent quality image. If you do your research, you will see which ones work for you. Similarly, some close up attachments for a P&S camera may, give you a satisfactory image, but that is not very likely. unless the camera's lens can be removed and replaced with an actual macro lens, something which is highly unlikely on a p&s, a closeup lens is the only viable option. as with everything, there's a range in quality, with the better closeup lenses producing very good, if not excellent results. among the better options is the canon 500d, a *two* element closeup lens (versus the usual cheaper one element). not surprisingly, it's not cheap, and like other closeup lenses, it attaches on the front of the lens so it will work with nikon, sony and other lenses, not just canon. https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/77mm-close-up-lens-500d Most inexpensive P&S cameras don't have high quality sensors or glass. Again, do your research, as you will find that some P&S cameras will give you what you want. that part is true, but someone buying a p&s is more concerned with convenience than quality. in other words, it's 'good enough'. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?
On 6/12/2018 1:37 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN wrote: An adapter that adds a piece of glass usually does not result in a high quality macro lens. Some, clip on lenses for the iPhone can produce a reasonably decent quality image. If you do your research, you will see which ones work for you. Similarly, some close up attachments for a P&S camera may, give you a satisfactory image, but that is not very likely. unless the camera's lens can be removed and replaced with an actual macro lens, something which is highly unlikely on a p&s, a closeup lens is the only viable option. as with everything, there's a range in quality, with the better closeup lenses producing very good, if not excellent results. among the better options is the canon 500d, a *two* element closeup lens (versus the usual cheaper one element). not surprisingly, it's not cheap, and like other closeup lenses, it attaches on the front of the lens so it will work with nikon, sony and other lenses, not just canon. https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/77mm-close-up-lens-500d It's 77mm and not terrible. Some of my friends have used it on crop frame DSLRs, and then decided to either use an extension tube or a macro lens. I have no idea about the quality on a cheap P&S. My guess is that if the user is happy with a cheap P&S he may very well be happy with it. If the user has a high quality P&S, it most likely has a macro mode, and the auxiliary glass will not be needed. Although I have some fairly high end glass and bodies, I still use my very old Nikon 8800. I converted it for IR only. The main reason I stopped using it was that the shutter lag was irritating me. For that reason I will probably convert another body to IR. I just haven't decided which IR conversion I prefer. Most inexpensive P&S cameras don't have high quality sensors or glass. Again, do your research, as you will find that some P&S cameras will give you what you want. that part is true, but someone buying a p&s is more concerned with convenience than quality. in other words, it's 'good enough'. Probability true for many, if not most people. I have seen some superb macro work from some P&S shooters. Admittedly, that is the exception. For macro work, the smaller sensor size will give a grater DOF than a FF. But, you must know what you are doing. I have also seen some superb macro work where the photographer used an iPhone 8; 8+; or X. Of course he uses a high quality clip on lens. BTW if you want to experiment with using a water drop on an iPhone lens, try a drop of glycerin instead. It is much less likely to damage your phone, and does not evaporate as quickly. Of course, nobody with any knowledge of optics would consider that technique for a realistic and predicable result. For artistic purposes, it might give you an interesting image. I have never tried it, but might with someone else's phone. And then, only with their informed consent of the risk. -- PeterN |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?
In article , PeterN
wrote: Most inexpensive P&S cameras don't have high quality sensors or glass. Again, do your research, as you will find that some P&S cameras will give you what you want. that part is true, but someone buying a p&s is more concerned with convenience than quality. in other words, it's 'good enough'. Probability true for many, if not most people. I have seen some superb macro work from some P&S shooters. Admittedly, that is the exception. not really, assuming they're trying. if they're just snapping without knowing what they're doing, then anything good will be the exception, macro or otherwise. For macro work, the smaller sensor size will give a grater DOF than a FF. myth. dof is the same for the same image quality. But, you must know what you are doing. as with everything. I have also seen some superb macro work where the photographer used an iPhone 8; 8+; or X. Of course he uses a high quality clip on lens. BTW if you want to experiment with using a water drop on an iPhone lens, try a drop of glycerin instead. It is much less likely to damage your phone, and does not evaporate as quickly. Of course, nobody with any knowledge of optics would consider that technique for a realistic and predicable result. For artistic purposes, it might give you an interesting image. I have never tried it, but might with someone else's phone. And then, only with their informed consent of the risk. get a burner phone. it can even have a bad esn if all you're going to do is take photos with it. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Why Macro Mode | Dave Cohen | Digital Photography | 1 | December 23rd 10 05:07 AM |
Macro mode | Alfred Molon[_4_] | Digital Photography | 92 | July 16th 08 10:23 PM |
Macro Mode | Dave Cohen | Digital Photography | 7 | August 17th 07 06:50 AM |
Macro lens or mode on P&S? | Mr.Bolshoyhuy | Digital SLR Cameras | 1 | March 15th 06 08:10 PM |
Macro mode how do I use? | Bible John | Digital Point & Shoot Cameras | 10 | August 26th 05 10:22 PM |