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Spiratone 7mm f/5.6 Fisheye



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 21st 11, 06:56 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
William Hamblen
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Posts: 22
Default Spiratone 7mm f/5.6 Fisheye

I picked up one of these recently. It looks like a fun toy, with the
emphasis on toy. It's better than those fisheye adapters that screw
onto the front of a lens, but not by much. There's a lot of lateral
color. You need 35 mm film or a full frame digital sensor to get the
full circle. It looks like you do get the whole 180 degrees in a 19
or 20 mm circle. The lens is fixed focus and has a pre-set diaphragm.
None of that automatic stuff. If you never had to work one of these,
there are two aperture rings: one ring with click stops where you set
the f/stop and one ring that you turn to open up the lens for framing the
shot and then turn back to close the diaphragm to the shooting aperture.
It's a throw-back to the'50s, if not the '40s. The depth of field is
so huge that you are in focus from about 2 ft to infinity. Wide open the
lens is f/5.6 and fully stopped down it is f/45 (!).

Bud
  #2  
Old December 21st 11, 07:17 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
David Dyer-Bennet
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Posts: 1,814
Default Spiratone 7mm f/5.6 Fisheye

William Hamblen writes:

I picked up one of these recently. It looks like a fun toy, with the
emphasis on toy. It's better than those fisheye adapters that screw
onto the front of a lens, but not by much. There's a lot of lateral
color. You need 35 mm film or a full frame digital sensor to get the
full circle. It looks like you do get the whole 180 degrees in a 19
or 20 mm circle. The lens is fixed focus and has a pre-set diaphragm.
None of that automatic stuff. If you never had to work one of these,
there are two aperture rings: one ring with click stops where you set
the f/stop and one ring that you turn to open up the lens for framing the
shot and then turn back to close the diaphragm to the shooting aperture.
It's a throw-back to the'50s, if not the '40s. The depth of field is
so huge that you are in focus from about 2 ft to infinity. Wide open the
lens is f/5.6 and fully stopped down it is f/45 (!).


I don't really understand what sets the circle diameter. I've got a
Pelang 8mm full-circle fisheye that just slightly clips the edge of the
full frame on one side (maybe it's partly a mount centering issue).
That one focuses, so I can get closer than 2 ft, which I find quite
useful with a fisheye. It's also pre-set (not the first pre-set
diaphragm lens I've owned; I'm old :-) ).

I've had surprising amounts of fun with it. The edges are very blurry,
I often end up masking it to a sharp edge (or to a fake rolled edge).

I know what you mean about throw-back -- but I can't find any references
to fisheye lenses existing before 1972 :-)

Note that Sigma makes a 4mm fisheye, for full-circle images on APS-C
sensors.

A couple of shots of mine with the Pelang:

http://dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.pl/photography/gallery/Como-2009?pic=ddb%2020090926%20010-004
http://dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.pl/photography/gallery/fourth-2009?pic=ddb%2020090704%20010-354
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
  #3  
Old December 21st 11, 09:43 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
William Hamblen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Spiratone 7mm f/5.6 Fisheye

On 2011-12-21, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
William Hamblen writes:

I picked up one of these recently. It looks like a fun toy, with the
emphasis on toy. It's better than those fisheye adapters that screw
onto the front of a lens, but not by much. There's a lot of lateral
color. You need 35 mm film or a full frame digital sensor to get the
full circle. It looks like you do get the whole 180 degrees in a 19
or 20 mm circle. The lens is fixed focus and has a pre-set diaphragm.
None of that automatic stuff. If you never had to work one of these,
there are two aperture rings: one ring with click stops where you set
the f/stop and one ring that you turn to open up the lens for framing the
shot and then turn back to close the diaphragm to the shooting aperture.
It's a throw-back to the'50s, if not the '40s. The depth of field is
so huge that you are in focus from about 2 ft to infinity. Wide open the
lens is f/5.6 and fully stopped down it is f/45 (!).


I don't really understand what sets the circle diameter. I've got a
Pelang 8mm full-circle fisheye that just slightly clips the edge of the
full frame on one side (maybe it's partly a mount centering issue).
That one focuses, so I can get closer than 2 ft, which I find quite
useful with a fisheye. It's also pre-set (not the first pre-set
diaphragm lens I've owned; I'm old :-) ).

I've had surprising amounts of fun with it. The edges are very blurry,
I often end up masking it to a sharp edge (or to a fake rolled edge).

I know what you mean about throw-back -- but I can't find any references
to fisheye lenses existing before 1972 :-)

Note that Sigma makes a 4mm fisheye, for full-circle images on APS-C
sensors.

A couple of shots of mine with the Pelang:

http://dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.pl/photography/gallery/Como-2009?pic=ddb%2020090926%20010-004
http://dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.pl/photography/gallery/fourth-2009?pic=ddb%2020090704%20010-354


I guess you had to use a remotely controlled camera to get that close
to the mortar in fourth-2009. It's hard to catch the flash of a
propellant charge. I've caught the muzzle flashes of cannons at Civil
War re-enactments. If you see the flash in the viewfinder you know
you've missed it. I'd like to set up a remotely controlled camera to
get a view from the front of the gun. For safety reasons you can't get
in front of the cannon when they do a shoot.

Fisheye lenses go way back for scientific photography. According
to this article, fisheye lenses were in existence in 1924:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/qj.49705021110/abstract.
A whole sky lens is the same as a circular fisheye. I don't know who got
the bright idea to sell fisheye lenses to regular people. Probably the
Germans had them first. Nikon's first fisheye was in 1962.

Bud
  #4  
Old December 21st 11, 10:32 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
David Dyer-Bennet
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,814
Default Spiratone 7mm f/5.6 Fisheye

William Hamblen writes:

On 2011-12-21, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:


A couple of shots of mine with the Pelang:

http://dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.pl/photography/gallery/Como-2009?pic=ddb%2020090926%20010-004
http://dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.pl/photography/gallery/fourth-2009?pic=ddb%2020090704%20010-354


I guess you had to use a remotely controlled camera to get that close
to the mortar in fourth-2009. It's hard to catch the flash of a
propellant charge. I've caught the muzzle flashes of cannons at Civil
War re-enactments. If you see the flash in the viewfinder you know
you've missed it. I'd like to set up a remotely controlled camera to
get a view from the front of the gun. For safety reasons you can't get
in front of the cannon when they do a shoot.


This is why shooting 8 frames per second is useful :-).

That second summer, where the fisheye shot comes from, we were using
electrical ignitionl, so basically I started the camera running at 8 fps
about a half second before the current was sent to the igniter. That
got me a decent range to choose from.

I'm waiting (they say February now) for Trigger Trap to deliver their
camera trigger product; then I might be able to be more precise.

"Mounting" the camera for that one was easy -- it's lying on its back on
the ground. I did clean gasoline residue off the front element of the
lens immediately after the shot.

I managed this one of a civil war cannon firing just by finger timing,
though. http://dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.pl/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/2004/05010-Freedom-Day?pic=ddb%2020040501%20010-011.

I'm actually in front of that last gun -- but well to the side. I was
reasonably sure they weren't going to turn it quickly enough to catch
me. I'm not sure why *they* were happy with the setup, though. Then
again, doing that kind of demo in a public space (that's actually on the
state capitol lawn) it's hard to keep a clean firing line.

Fisheye lenses go way back for scientific photography. According
to this article, fisheye lenses were in existence in 1924:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/qj.49705021110/abstract.
A whole sky lens is the same as a circular fisheye. I don't know who got
the bright idea to sell fisheye lenses to regular people. Probably the
Germans had them first. Nikon's first fisheye was in 1962.


Much older than I've found any evidence of before, then. Thanks!
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
  #5  
Old December 22nd 11, 12:27 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
William Hamblen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Cannon Flash (was: Spiratone 7mm f/5.6 Fisheye)

On 2011-12-21, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

I managed this one of a civil war cannon firing just by finger timing,
though. http://dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.pl/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/2004/05010-Freedom-Day?pic=ddb%2020040501%20010-011.

I'm actually in front of that last gun -- but well to the side. I was
reasonably sure they weren't going to turn it quickly enough to catch
me. I'm not sure why *they* were happy with the setup, though. Then
again, doing that kind of demo in a public space (that's actually on the
state capitol lawn) it's hard to keep a clean firing line.


Here's my version of a cannon flash (my apologies if this doesn't work):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65942246@N03/6551282185/.

My brother was on the Federal battery on the other side of the field,
but they wouldn't let spectators up there and I couldn't get a shot
of him.

Bud
  #6  
Old December 22nd 11, 04:32 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
David Dyer-Bennet
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,814
Default Cannon Flash

William Hamblen writes:

On 2011-12-21, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

I managed this one of a civil war cannon firing just by finger timing,
though. http://dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.pl/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/2004/05010-Freedom-Day?pic=ddb%2020040501%20010-011.

I'm actually in front of that last gun -- but well to the side. I was
reasonably sure they weren't going to turn it quickly enough to catch
me. I'm not sure why *they* were happy with the setup, though. Then
again, doing that kind of demo in a public space (that's actually on the
state capitol lawn) it's hard to keep a clean firing line.


Here's my version of a cannon flash (my apologies if this doesn't work):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65942246@N03/6551282185/.


Very nice! I particularly love the jet from the touch-hole. I believe
gunners in the Royal Navy were trained to stop their touch-holes to
limit erosion by the gas gets (which must get exciting, given that
they're using carriages that move a couple of feet in recoil).

My brother was on the Federal battery on the other side of the field,
but they wouldn't let spectators up there and I couldn't get a shot
of him.


Simulating firearms combat gets really complicated; I'm glad I'm not the
one having to invent (and test) how to do it reasonably safely.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
  #7  
Old December 23rd 11, 05:22 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Cannon Flash

On 2011-12-22 07:32:04 -0800, David Dyer-Bennet said:

William Hamblen writes:

On 2011-12-21, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

I managed this one of a civil war cannon firing just by finger timing,
though.
http://dd-b.net/cgi-bin/picpage.pl/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/2004/05010-Freedom-Day?pic=ddb%2020040501%20010-011.


I'm

actually in front of that last gun -- but well to the side. I was
reasonably sure they weren't going to turn it quickly enough to catch
me. I'm not sure why *they* were happy with the setup, though. Then
again, doing that kind of demo in a public space (that's actually on the
state capitol lawn) it's hard to keep a clean firing line.


Here's my version of a cannon flash (my apologies if this doesn't work):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65942246@N03/6551282185/.


Very nice! I particularly love the jet from the touch-hole. I believe
gunners in the Royal Navy were trained to stop their touch-holes to
limit erosion by the gas gets (which must get exciting, given that
they're using carriages that move a couple of feet in recoil).


I believe you will find that is not related to old match fired guns.
Up until the mid 18th century British naval guns (and the majority of
field guns) were fired with the use of a linstock, a staff with a slow
match attached to the end. This device gave the gunner a stand off
distance of about 6 to 7 feet. This was necessary because the jet from
the touch-hole was unpredictable, and it gave them the reach to be
outside the track of the recoiling gun carriage.

By the early 18th century the touch-hole and quill fuse was replaced on
the naval gun with a flintlock firing device which was triggered by the
gunner pulling on a lanyard, usually 6 to 8 feet long. Field guns
continued to be fired with a mix of the old touch-hole quill fuse
method and the flintlock device into the early 19th century until the
introduction of the friction fuse, or friction tube igniter which was
also triggered with a lanyard.

Here is where the vent sealing story comes along. With muzzle loaded
field and naval guns, on firing friction igniter fuses, the used tube
is blown out of the vent by the explosive pressure. You would have seen
this with the Civil War era guns you are familiar with. No gunner is
going to manually try to contain that. It would be like trying to
restrain a bullet by putting your hand over the end of the barrel.

With the introduction of early breech loading naval guns in the late
18th, and early 19th century, which were still fired in the traditional
manner, the erosion from the touch-hole was found to interfere with the
breech mechanism. So the Royal Navy developed a special "vent sealing
friction igniter tube for these guns. it was "T" shaped and was locked
into the touch-hole with a bayonet fitting. When the gun was fired a
ball sealed the vent by being forced into a conical section of the
igniter tube. The seal was removed when the breech was opened for
reloading.


The lanyard lives on today with many examples of modern field
artillery, where the lanyard allows the gunner to be a safe distance
from the recoiling gun. That said modern naval guns are fired
electrically as are quite a few modern field guns.



My brother was on the Federal battery on the other side of the field,
but they wouldn't let spectators up there and I couldn't get a shot
of him.


Simulating firearms combat gets really complicated; I'm glad I'm not the
one having to invent (and test) how to do it reasonably safely.



--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #8  
Old December 23rd 11, 06:00 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Michael[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 313
Default Spiratone 7mm f/5.6 Fisheye

On 2011-12-21 12:56:56 -0500, William Hamblen said:

I picked up one of these recently. It looks like a fun toy, with the
emphasis on toy. It's better than those fisheye adapters that screw
onto the front of a lens, but not by much. There's a lot of lateral
color. You need 35 mm film or a full frame digital sensor to get the
full circle. It looks like you do get the whole 180 degrees in a 19
or 20 mm circle. The lens is fixed focus and has a pre-set diaphragm.
None of that automatic stuff. If you never had to work one of these,
there are two aperture rings: one ring with click stops where you set
the f/stop and one ring that you turn to open up the lens for framing the
shot and then turn back to close the diaphragm to the shooting aperture.
It's a throw-back to the'50s, if not the '40s. The depth of field is
so huge that you are in focus from about 2 ft to infinity. Wide open the
lens is f/5.6 and fully stopped down it is f/45 (!).

Bud


That kind of aperture setting was called "pre-set" as opposed to "auto"
(the aperture stayed wide open during framing and closed down to what
you set it at when you took the picture, doing so "automatically").
These lenses were very common in the 1960s and even the 1970s as low
cost alternatives to the "auto" lenses. I think they started to
disappear when lenses became automatic in the sense we think of them
today.
--
Michael

  #9  
Old December 23rd 11, 04:10 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
William Hamblen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Manual, Semi-automatic and Automatic (was: Spiratone 7mm f/5.6Fisheye)

On 2011-12-23, Michael wrote:

That kind of aperture setting was called "pre-set" as opposed to "auto"
(the aperture stayed wide open during framing and closed down to what
you set it at when you took the picture, doing so "automatically").
These lenses were very common in the 1960s and even the 1970s as low
cost alternatives to the "auto" lenses. I think they started to
disappear when lenses became automatic in the sense we think of them
today.


Old lenses were manual only (and of course rangefinder cameras did't use
automatic diaphragms for the most part), then you had pre-set lenses,
then you had semi-automatic lenses, then you had automatic lenses.
Semi-automatic lenses closed the diaphragm when you took the picture,
but you had to reopen the diaphragm after the shot. Pentax Auto Takumar
lenses always (I think) had a manual/automatic switch that you could
flip to have a completely manual lens to use on old cameras. Newer model
lenses often lack the manual/automatic switch. These tend to come from
the off-brand companies like Vivitar.

Bud

  #10  
Old December 23rd 11, 06:40 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
K W Hart
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Posts: 142
Default Manual, Semi-automatic and Automatic (was: Spiratone 7mm f/5.6 Fisheye)


"William Hamblen" wrote in message
m...
On 2011-12-23, Michael wrote:

That kind of aperture setting was called "pre-set" as opposed to "auto"
(the aperture stayed wide open during framing and closed down to what
you set it at when you took the picture, doing so "automatically").
These lenses were very common in the 1960s and even the 1970s as low
cost alternatives to the "auto" lenses. I think they started to
disappear when lenses became automatic in the sense we think of them
today.


Old lenses were manual only (and of course rangefinder cameras did't use
automatic diaphragms for the most part), then you had pre-set lenses,
then you had semi-automatic lenses, then you had automatic lenses.
Semi-automatic lenses closed the diaphragm when you took the picture,
but you had to reopen the diaphragm after the shot. Pentax Auto Takumar
lenses always (I think) had a manual/automatic switch that you could
flip to have a completely manual lens to use on old cameras. Newer model
lenses often lack the manual/automatic switch. These tend to come from
the off-brand companies like Vivitar.

Bud


Third-party manufacturers- such as Vivitar, Tamron, Spiratone, etc- would
design lenses without a specific mount, and add a mount that fits a specific
camera. Tamron came up with the "T-mount" system that could be easily
interchanged by the user. A user could buy a T-mount adaptor for his
Canon/Nikon/Whatever, and buy T-mount lenses without a mount. Or if a user
had both a Canon and a Nikon, he could use the same T-mount lenses for
either camera by switching the interchangeable mount.
The third-party manufacturers often made preset lenses because each camera
type had different stop-down mechanisms. Camera "A" might push a pin forward
to stop down. Camera "B" might allow a spring-loaded pin to come out for
stop-down. Camera "C" (as in Canon) might push a pin to the left to stop
down. So to accomodate all the different stop-down systems, the third-party
manufacturers just ignored stop-down and made their lenses preset.

Preset lenses have fewer moving parts: no linkage to stop down; so they are
cheaper to design and manufacture. Thus they usually sell for less (or allow
a higher markup for a retailer!).

I've used preset lenses before. In fact, Canon made a 1200mm FL-mount lens
that was manual stop-down, not even preset. But that's not much of a problem
for a 24X lens as a tripod is required. If I were using a lens for
fast-paced work (like sports), I would not want a preset.


--
Ken Hart



 




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