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#1
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[Mpix Challenge] Megapixel resolution challenge
Some claim that full frame sensors like the Sony a900's 24.6 Mpix or the Canon 21 Mpix cameras cannot out-resolve the Nikon 12 Mpix full frame cameras. I therefore throw out this friendly challenge with results to be posted (full frame raw images) in two weeks time. Send me an e-meil at the address above (less the "Freelunch") if you're "in" and your gear complies to the requirement below. PROPOSED RULES -------------- Here are some rules, you may propose changes, naturally, in reply to this post. Let's try to sort out rule changes by this Friday (2008.12.05). I will not reply to anything other than serious proposed rule changes or adjustments which are within the grasp of the average shooters in these NG's and which enable participation with a minimum of fuss, but that have reasonably controllable technical requirements/minimums. 1. CAMERA and LENS a) Each uses his sharpest 50mm or longer lens at its sharpest aperture. You may borrow, beg, etc. a lens if you want/need to. b) Full frame 35mm cameras only (eg: [24 x 36mm] +/- 1 mm). Film is permitted, nay, encouraged. Scanning is the responsibility of the shooter. (If you're late on the deadline, I'll still post the images, of course). Submit TIF's. c) Camera set to its best ISO for image quality (per the manufacturer). 2. TARGET Subject to be a specific "The Economist" - "Positions" advertisement (tend to have fine print) to be mutually agreed from the 6 Dec 2008 edition. A ruler (cm or inches) must be part of the image but will not, itself, be part of the evaluation. Shooter to make sure the page is mounted as flat as reasonably possible and normal to the lens axis. Eg: tape or clamp the page to a piece of plywood. 3. LIGHTING Tungsten lighting at a distance commensurate with exposure at chosen aperture, ISO and speed. Assume two lights, one on each side, level with the work and approximately 45 degrees to the lens axis. I propose we agree on 100W for each light. (I have no objection if folks prefer strobe lighting, as long as everyone agrees on it and can do it. I would prefer strobe actually but propose tungsten if that is more accessible.) 4. DISTANCE Distance to be _1.25 inches per mm of focal length_ from the subject to the sensor plane. (To allow a wide range of normal to telephot lenses but a reasonable scaling for comparison.) If you know the 'true' FL v. the marketed FL, then please use the true value. (This constant to be refined but something on that order. Once agreed, all shooters must use the same multiplier. A ruler (in cm or inches) must be part of the photo(s)). 5. SUPPORT Tripod, release cable and MLU are assumed. 6. RESULT FILES Original, unchanged, raw files (no sharpening that way) to be sent to me via YouSendIt.com. I will post these for access by all participants. 7. OTHER FILES 100% crops (sharpened and not) to be posted as well as selected by the shooters. 8. EVALUATION Evaluation: center and corner sharpness. Discussion of results in rec.photo.equipment.slr-systems. Does anyone have a resolution tool on their computer? 9. DEADLINE Deadline: 2008.12.14 - Sunday midnight, Los Angeles Time. Cheers, Alan -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. -- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out. |
#2
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[Mpix Challenge] Megapixel resolution challenge
Its not the pictures it's the physics.
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#3
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[Mpix Challenge] Megapixel resolution challenge
"Alan Browne" wrote in message ... Some claim that full frame sensors like the Sony a900's 24.6 Mpix or the Canon 21 Mpix cameras cannot out-resolve the Nikon 12 Mpix full frame cameras. I therefore throw out this friendly challenge with results to be posted (full frame raw images) in two weeks time. Send me an e-meil at the address above (less the "Freelunch") if you're "in" and your gear complies to the requirement below. PROPOSED RULES -------------- Here are some rules, you may propose changes, naturally, in reply to this post. Let's try to sort out rule changes by this Friday (2008.12.05). I will not reply to anything other than serious proposed rule changes or adjustments which are within the grasp of the average shooters in these NG's and which enable participation with a minimum of fuss, but that have reasonably controllable technical requirements/minimums. 1. CAMERA and LENS a) Each uses his sharpest 50mm or longer lens at its sharpest aperture. You may borrow, beg, etc. a lens if you want/need to. b) Full frame 35mm cameras only (eg: [24 x 36mm] +/- 1 mm). Film is permitted, nay, encouraged. Scanning is the responsibility of the shooter. (If you're late on the deadline, I'll still post the images, of course). Submit TIF's. c) Camera set to its best ISO for image quality (per the manufacturer). 2. TARGET Subject to be a specific "The Economist" - "Positions" advertisement (tend to have fine print) to be mutually agreed from the 6 Dec 2008 edition. A ruler (cm or inches) must be part of the image but will not, itself, be part of the evaluation. Shooter to make sure the page is mounted as flat as reasonably possible and normal to the lens axis. Eg: tape or clamp the page to a piece of plywood. 3. LIGHTING Tungsten lighting at a distance commensurate with exposure at chosen aperture, ISO and speed. Assume two lights, one on each side, level with the work and approximately 45 degrees to the lens axis. I propose we agree on 100W for each light. (I have no objection if folks prefer strobe lighting, as long as everyone agrees on it and can do it. I would prefer strobe actually but propose tungsten if that is more accessible.) 4. DISTANCE Distance to be _1.25 inches per mm of focal length_ from the subject to the sensor plane. (To allow a wide range of normal to telephot lenses but a reasonable scaling for comparison.) If you know the 'true' FL v. the marketed FL, then please use the true value. (This constant to be refined but something on that order. Once agreed, all shooters must use the same multiplier. A ruler (in cm or inches) must be part of the photo(s)). 5. SUPPORT Tripod, release cable and MLU are assumed. 6. RESULT FILES Original, unchanged, raw files (no sharpening that way) to be sent to me via YouSendIt.com. I will post these for access by all participants. 7. OTHER FILES 100% crops (sharpened and not) to be posted as well as selected by the shooters. 8. EVALUATION Evaluation: center and corner sharpness. Discussion of results in rec.photo.equipment.slr-systems. Does anyone have a resolution tool on their computer? 9. DEADLINE Deadline: 2008.12.14 - Sunday midnight, Los Angeles Time. Cheers, Alan -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. -- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out. Item #7: What's "100% crops"? Either uncropped or nonexistent. May I suggest an alternative to requiring huge files to be posted? Take the picture as proposed, size to a large size (e.g., 20x30"), then crop a section of about 6x9" (to fit on the screen). No need to evaluate the entire image. -- Alan Justice |
#4
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[Mpix Challenge] Megapixel resolution challenge
Alan Justice wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message ... Some claim that full frame sensors like the Sony a900's 24.6 Mpix or the Canon 21 Mpix cameras cannot out-resolve the Nikon 12 Mpix full frame cameras. I therefore throw out this friendly challenge with results to be posted (full frame raw images) in two weeks time. Send me an e-meil at the address above (less the "Freelunch") if you're "in" and your gear complies to the requirement below. PROPOSED RULES -------------- Here are some rules, you may propose changes, naturally, in reply to this post. Let's try to sort out rule changes by this Friday (2008.12.05). I will not reply to anything other than serious proposed rule changes or adjustments which are within the grasp of the average shooters in these NG's and which enable participation with a minimum of fuss, but that have reasonably controllable technical requirements/minimums. 1. CAMERA and LENS a) Each uses his sharpest 50mm or longer lens at its sharpest aperture. You may borrow, beg, etc. a lens if you want/need to. b) Full frame 35mm cameras only (eg: [24 x 36mm] +/- 1 mm). Film is permitted, nay, encouraged. Scanning is the responsibility of the shooter. (If you're late on the deadline, I'll still post the images, of course). Submit TIF's. c) Camera set to its best ISO for image quality (per the manufacturer). 2. TARGET Subject to be a specific "The Economist" - "Positions" advertisement (tend to have fine print) to be mutually agreed from the 6 Dec 2008 edition. A ruler (cm or inches) must be part of the image but will not, itself, be part of the evaluation. Shooter to make sure the page is mounted as flat as reasonably possible and normal to the lens axis. Eg: tape or clamp the page to a piece of plywood. 3. LIGHTING Tungsten lighting at a distance commensurate with exposure at chosen aperture, ISO and speed. Assume two lights, one on each side, level with the work and approximately 45 degrees to the lens axis. I propose we agree on 100W for each light. (I have no objection if folks prefer strobe lighting, as long as everyone agrees on it and can do it. I would prefer strobe actually but propose tungsten if that is more accessible.) 4. DISTANCE Distance to be _1.25 inches per mm of focal length_ from the subject to the sensor plane. (To allow a wide range of normal to telephot lenses but a reasonable scaling for comparison.) If you know the 'true' FL v. the marketed FL, then please use the true value. (This constant to be refined but something on that order. Once agreed, all shooters must use the same multiplier. A ruler (in cm or inches) must be part of the photo(s)). 5. SUPPORT Tripod, release cable and MLU are assumed. 6. RESULT FILES Original, unchanged, raw files (no sharpening that way) to be sent to me via YouSendIt.com. I will post these for access by all participants. 7. OTHER FILES 100% crops (sharpened and not) to be posted as well as selected by the shooters. 8. EVALUATION Evaluation: center and corner sharpness. Discussion of results in rec.photo.equipment.slr-systems. Does anyone have a resolution tool on their computer? 9. DEADLINE Deadline: 2008.12.14 - Sunday midnight, Los Angeles Time. Cheers, Alan -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. -- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out. Item #7: What's "100% crops"? Either uncropped or nonexistent. May I suggest an alternative to requiring huge files to be posted? Take the picture as proposed, size to a large size (e.g., 20x30"), then crop a section of about 6x9" (to fit on the screen). No need to evaluate the entire image. That's exactly what 100% crop means. '100%' means the view should be 'actual pixel' size, ie not resampled. 'crop' means that rather than post the whole image and waste bandwidth, just post a small .. crop. |
#5
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[Mpix Challenge] Megapixel resolution challenge
"Alan Browne" wrote in message ... snip Of course photographing a newspaper will tell nought about color problems/differences anyway. There's more to photo quality than just resolution. And it seems to me the only advantage of the Nikon (lower noise at higher ISO) is not to be tested, so what's the point? A proper optical bench test is more definitive than shooting a newspaper. But if you need better than any of those camera's you should probably be using MF or large format anyway. MrT. |
#6
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[Mpix Challenge] Megapixel resolution challenge
Alan Browne wrote:
[] 8. EVALUATION Evaluation: center and corner sharpness. Discussion of results in rec.photo.equipment.slr-systems. Excuse me, but if you are evaluating digital SLR systems, please discuss the results in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems! Thanks, David |
#7
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[Mpix Challenge] Megapixel resolution challenge
"David J Taylor" wrote in message .. . Alan Browne wrote: [] 8. EVALUATION Evaluation: center and corner sharpness. Discussion of results in rec.photo.equipment.slr-systems. Excuse me, but if you are evaluating digital SLR systems, please discuss the results in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems! Oh, ain't that rich...some never give up : ) |
#8
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[Mpix Challenge] Megapixel resolution challenge
Mr.T wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message ... snip Of course photographing a newspaper will tell nought about color problems/differences anyway. There's more to photo quality than just resolution. And it seems to me the only advantage of the Nikon (lower noise at higher ISO) is not to be tested, so what's the point? A proper optical bench test is more definitive than shooting a newspaper. But if you need better than any of those camera's you should probably be using MF or large format anyway. I have nothing against full testing, but for simplicity's sake, let's begin with addressing resolution as that replies to those who claim that there is no discernible resolution beyond 12 Mpix. Resolution test charts, by the way, are black on white. The purpose of this challenge is to see if general users like us can discern that detail. The use of a fine print magazine advert at a good distance is very useful for resolution testing as it presents contrast lines at many angles (font shape). I'd be happier to use USAF res charts, but they are expensive for their limited use. The Economist is a few bucks at your local newsstand. -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. -- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out. |
#9
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[Mpix Challenge] Megapixel resolution challenge
Alan Justice wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message 100% crops (sharpened and not) to be posted as well as selected by the shooters. Item #7: What's "100% crops"? Either uncropped or nonexistent. May I suggest an alternative to requiring huge files to be posted? Take the picture as proposed, size to a large size (e.g., 20x30"), then crop a section of about 6x9" (to fit on the screen). No need to evaluate the entire image. 100% crop (a very common term used in these NG's) means a section cropped for detail examination and not resized further. eg: a 400 x 400 pixel area from the original without re-sizing of the original or the crop. The notion of sending in the raw files is to assure everyone that the original is available for examination. Speaking of cropping, you could have cropped your post for readability on your issue without re-quoting the entire post. -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. -- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out. |
#10
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[Mpix Challenge] Megapixel resolution challenge
David J Taylor wrote:
Alan Browne wrote: [] 8. EVALUATION Evaluation: center and corner sharpness. Discussion of results in rec.photo.equipment.slr-systems. Excuse me, but if you are evaluating digital SLR systems, please discuss the results in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems! Film shooters are just as welcome to participate. See rule 1 b) para 2. -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch. -- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out. |
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