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#1
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images to print - some confusions
Hi all,
I normally scan photos and create various digital arts/designs "just for the web". So I am not too familiar with printing my works as to how it appears on paper. Now I need to print some of my works. I have to send my works to some printing press. I need to print with the width of 10in at 200 dpi. What I've realised now is- for printing a 10in x 10in image at 200dpi, I need at least 2000 x 2000 pixels image. I normally create my images at the size of 800 x 800 pixels. Now it seems like if I am to print 10in x 10in image (maintaining good quality), either I'll have to recreate my work (which seems tedious and virtually impossible) or I shouldn't even bother printing at 10in x 10in. Am I right? Is there a better solution for this? I'm also intrigued by the space it takes to save a 2000 x 2000 pixel image. One psd image can take 10MB or more if I am to save as 2000 x 2000 pixels. I can't save my images as jpeg. I need to save them as psd format cause I need to preserve layers. Is there a way to optimise this or is this just a reality of print work that I'm not familiar with? The more I think about it, the more I get confused. One more question about scanning. When I scan my photo (6in x 4in) to get output of 2000x2000 pixels, isn't there a lot of interpolation done as compared to 800x600 pixels? Then what about the quality of 2000x2000 pixel image- isn't it degraded? Then I guess it's better to scan larger image to get a bigger resolution. Am I right? Hope some of you can clarify... Thanx Ben |
#2
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It is going to be pretty hard to get a good looking 10 by 10 print from
a 800 x 800 pixel image. 2000 x 2000 is small by todays standards. I routinely work with 5400 x 3600 images, they take up a lot of room on the disk, depending on how many layers 200 MB or so, but that is why I bought a large hard drive. If 10MB seems like a large file to you then you really need to go out and buy a new hard drive, I am using a 250 gig external drive and that seems to be working well. Scott |
#3
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On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:18:29 -0800, Ben wrote:
Hi all, I normally scan photos and create various digital arts/designs "just for the web". So I am not too familiar with printing my works as to how it appears on paper. Now I need to print some of my works. I have to send my works to some printing press. I need to print with the width of 10in at 200 dpi. What I've realised now is- for printing a 10in x 10in image at 200dpi, I need at least 2000 x 2000 pixels image. I normally create my images at the size of 800 x 800 pixels. Now it seems like if I am to print 10in x 10in image (maintaining good quality), either I'll have to recreate my work (which seems tedious and virtually impossible) or I shouldn't even bother printing at 10in x 10in. Am I right? Is there a better solution for this? I'm also intrigued by the space it takes to save a 2000 x 2000 pixel image. One psd image can take 10MB or more if I am to save as 2000 x 2000 pixels. I can't save my images as jpeg. I need to save them as psd format cause I need to preserve layers. Is there a way to optimise this or is this just a reality of print work that I'm not familiar with? The more I think about it, the more I get confused. One more question about scanning. When I scan my photo (6in x 4in) to get output of 2000x2000 pixels, isn't there a lot of interpolation done as compared to 800x600 pixels? Then what about the quality of 2000x2000 pixel image- isn't it degraded? Then I guess it's better to scan larger image to get a bigger resolution. Am I right? Hope some of you can clarify... Thanx Ben You might get away with a 800x800 pixel original if the colours are very light and it doesn't contain much really sharp contrast along diagonal lines (where you would see the stair-stepping pixelation effect called aliasing). When printing to an actual four colour offset printing press (for publication?) you can usually get away with slightly lower resolutions but not much and I'd say 800x800 is usually really too small to be useful for this kind of job. I'd consider 2000 pixels wide an absolute minimum to be useful for printing on a press. The question about scanning isn't straightforward to answer. Much depends on the hardware you use and on the quality of your original. Scanning from prints is always a lot less desirable than using film since prints have much lower colour depth and resolution. Assuming you shoot on 35mm film (digital wouldn't need scanning), you can get very good results suitable for professional printing from many photo labs these days. Even the one hour shops have started putting film onto CD-R recently. They charge slightly more than they do for small prints, but I end up with nice 3000x2000 pixel (approximately) images. You should ask around in your area. You certainly won't exhaust the resolution of a 35mm negative when you scan it at 2000x2000 pixels as long as the scanner can truly handle it. Check the optical resolution for that. Interpolation is utterly useless marketing-speak (there _ARE_ no true 19200dpi. scanners that you can buy at Dixons) and Photoshop generally seems to do a better job of it anyway. Many cheap minilab film prints I see actually are actually scanned and then printed at 300dpi. It's useless to scan those at any higher resolution as there is simply no more data in the original. Bas |
#4
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On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:18:29 -0800, Ben wrote:
Hi all, I normally scan photos and create various digital arts/designs "just for the web". So I am not too familiar with printing my works as to how it appears on paper. Now I need to print some of my works. I have to send my works to some printing press. I need to print with the width of 10in at 200 dpi. What I've realised now is- for printing a 10in x 10in image at 200dpi, I need at least 2000 x 2000 pixels image. I normally create my images at the size of 800 x 800 pixels. Now it seems like if I am to print 10in x 10in image (maintaining good quality), either I'll have to recreate my work (which seems tedious and virtually impossible) or I shouldn't even bother printing at 10in x 10in. Am I right? Is there a better solution for this? I'm also intrigued by the space it takes to save a 2000 x 2000 pixel image. One psd image can take 10MB or more if I am to save as 2000 x 2000 pixels. I can't save my images as jpeg. I need to save them as psd format cause I need to preserve layers. Is there a way to optimise this or is this just a reality of print work that I'm not familiar with? The more I think about it, the more I get confused. One more question about scanning. When I scan my photo (6in x 4in) to get output of 2000x2000 pixels, isn't there a lot of interpolation done as compared to 800x600 pixels? Then what about the quality of 2000x2000 pixel image- isn't it degraded? Then I guess it's better to scan larger image to get a bigger resolution. Am I right? Hope some of you can clarify... Thanx Ben You might get away with a 800x800 pixel original if the colours are very light and it doesn't contain much really sharp contrast along diagonal lines (where you would see the stair-stepping pixelation effect called aliasing). When printing to an actual four colour offset printing press (for publication?) you can usually get away with slightly lower resolutions but not much and I'd say 800x800 is usually really too small to be useful for this kind of job. I'd consider 2000 pixels wide an absolute minimum to be useful for printing on a press. The question about scanning isn't straightforward to answer. Much depends on the hardware you use and on the quality of your original. Scanning from prints is always a lot less desirable than using film since prints have much lower colour depth and resolution. Assuming you shoot on 35mm film (digital wouldn't need scanning), you can get very good results suitable for professional printing from many photo labs these days. Even the one hour shops have started putting film onto CD-R recently. They charge slightly more than they do for small prints, but I end up with nice 3000x2000 pixel (approximately) images. You should ask around in your area. You certainly won't exhaust the resolution of a 35mm negative when you scan it at 2000x2000 pixels as long as the scanner can truly handle it. Check the optical resolution for that. Interpolation is utterly useless marketing-speak (there _ARE_ no true 19200dpi. scanners that you can buy at Dixons) and Photoshop generally seems to do a better job of it anyway. Many cheap minilab film prints I see actually are actually scanned and then printed at 300dpi. It's useless to scan those at any higher resolution as there is simply no more data in the original. Bas |
#5
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On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:18:29 -0800, Ben wrote:
Hi all, I normally scan photos and create various digital arts/designs "just for the web". So I am not too familiar with printing my works as to how it appears on paper. Now I need to print some of my works. I have to send my works to some printing press. I need to print with the width of 10in at 200 dpi. What I've realised now is- for printing a 10in x 10in image at 200dpi, I need at least 2000 x 2000 pixels image. I normally create my images at the size of 800 x 800 pixels. Now it seems like if I am to print 10in x 10in image (maintaining good quality), either I'll have to recreate my work (which seems tedious and virtually impossible) or I shouldn't even bother printing at 10in x 10in. Am I right? Is there a better solution for this? I'm also intrigued by the space it takes to save a 2000 x 2000 pixel image. One psd image can take 10MB or more if I am to save as 2000 x 2000 pixels. I can't save my images as jpeg. I need to save them as psd format cause I need to preserve layers. Is there a way to optimise this or is this just a reality of print work that I'm not familiar with? The more I think about it, the more I get confused. One more question about scanning. When I scan my photo (6in x 4in) to get output of 2000x2000 pixels, isn't there a lot of interpolation done as compared to 800x600 pixels? Then what about the quality of 2000x2000 pixel image- isn't it degraded? Then I guess it's better to scan larger image to get a bigger resolution. Am I right? Hope some of you can clarify... Thanx Ben You might get away with a 800x800 pixel original if the colours are very light and it doesn't contain much really sharp contrast along diagonal lines (where you would see the stair-stepping pixelation effect called aliasing). When printing to an actual four colour offset printing press (for publication?) you can usually get away with slightly lower resolutions but not much and I'd say 800x800 is usually really too small to be useful for this kind of job. I'd consider 2000 pixels wide an absolute minimum to be useful for printing on a press. The question about scanning isn't straightforward to answer. Much depends on the hardware you use and on the quality of your original. Scanning from prints is always a lot less desirable than using film since prints have much lower colour depth and resolution. Assuming you shoot on 35mm film (digital wouldn't need scanning), you can get very good results suitable for professional printing from many photo labs these days. Even the one hour shops have started putting film onto CD-R recently. They charge slightly more than they do for small prints, but I end up with nice 3000x2000 pixel (approximately) images. You should ask around in your area. You certainly won't exhaust the resolution of a 35mm negative when you scan it at 2000x2000 pixels as long as the scanner can truly handle it. Check the optical resolution for that. Interpolation is utterly useless marketing-speak (there _ARE_ no true 19200dpi. scanners that you can buy at Dixons) and Photoshop generally seems to do a better job of it anyway. Many cheap minilab film prints I see actually are actually scanned and then printed at 300dpi. It's useless to scan those at any higher resolution as there is simply no more data in the original. Bas |
#7
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Unfortunately, in answering your first question- yes, if you want decent
ten inch prints, it will require rescanning the images. Interpolation from 800 pixels to 2000 pixels is asking far too much from software. Second questions, many scanners do scan with high enough resolution that they can create 2000 x 2000 images without software interpolation. Some scan 1200 samples per inch, others 2400 samples per inch. Ben wrote: Hi all, I normally scan photos and create various digital arts/designs "just for the web". So I am not too familiar with printing my works as to how it appears on paper. Now I need to print some of my works. I have to send my works to some printing press. I need to print with the width of 10in at 200 dpi. What I've realised now is- for printing a 10in x 10in image at 200dpi, I need at least 2000 x 2000 pixels image. I normally create my images at the size of 800 x 800 pixels. Now it seems like if I am to print 10in x 10in image (maintaining good quality), either I'll have to recreate my work (which seems tedious and virtually impossible) or I shouldn't even bother printing at 10in x 10in. Am I right? Is there a better solution for this? I'm also intrigued by the space it takes to save a 2000 x 2000 pixel image. One psd image can take 10MB or more if I am to save as 2000 x 2000 pixels. I can't save my images as jpeg. I need to save them as psd format cause I need to preserve layers. Is there a way to optimise this or is this just a reality of print work that I'm not familiar with? The more I think about it, the more I get confused. One more question about scanning. When I scan my photo (6in x 4in) to get output of 2000x2000 pixels, isn't there a lot of interpolation done as compared to 800x600 pixels? Then what about the quality of 2000x2000 pixel image- isn't it degraded? Then I guess it's better to scan larger image to get a bigger resolution. Am I right? Hope some of you can clarify... Thanx Ben |
#8
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What I've realised now is- for printing a 10in x 10in image at 200dpi,
I need at least 2000 x 2000 pixels image. I normally create my images at the size of 800 x 800 pixels. Now it seems like if I am to print 10in x 10in image (maintaining good quality), either I'll have to recreate my work (which seems tedious and virtually impossible) or I shouldn't even bother printing at 10in x 10in. Am I right? Is there a better solution for this? You are right. To get a good print, you need 200dpi (even though a computer monitor is often only 72dpi). An 800x800 image at 10"x10" is, as you've noticed, only 80dpi. It will look terrible. There are computer algorithms to add more pixels, but you won't get any additional information, so what you'll end up with is a computer version of impressionist art. Sometimes it doesn't look terrible, but it won't look much like a photograph, either. -Joel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Free 35mm lens/digicam reviews: http://www.exc.com/photography ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
#9
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What I've realised now is- for printing a 10in x 10in image at 200dpi,
I need at least 2000 x 2000 pixels image. I normally create my images at the size of 800 x 800 pixels. Now it seems like if I am to print 10in x 10in image (maintaining good quality), either I'll have to recreate my work (which seems tedious and virtually impossible) or I shouldn't even bother printing at 10in x 10in. Am I right? Is there a better solution for this? You are right. To get a good print, you need 200dpi (even though a computer monitor is often only 72dpi). An 800x800 image at 10"x10" is, as you've noticed, only 80dpi. It will look terrible. There are computer algorithms to add more pixels, but you won't get any additional information, so what you'll end up with is a computer version of impressionist art. Sometimes it doesn't look terrible, but it won't look much like a photograph, either. -Joel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Free 35mm lens/digicam reviews: http://www.exc.com/photography ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
#10
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"Ben" wrote in message om... Hi all, I normally scan photos and create various digital arts/designs "just for the web". So I am not too familiar with printing my works as to how it appears on paper. Now I need to print some of my works. I have to send my works to some printing press. I need to print with the width of 10in at 200 dpi. What I've realised now is- for printing a 10in x 10in image at 200dpi, I need at least 2000 x 2000 pixels image. I normally create my images at the size of 800 x 800 pixels. Now it seems like if I am to print 10in x 10in image (maintaining good quality), either I'll have to recreate my work (which seems tedious and virtually impossible) or I shouldn't even bother printing at 10in x 10in. Am I right? Is there a better solution for this? I'm also intrigued by the space it takes to save a 2000 x 2000 pixel image. One psd image can take 10MB or more if I am to save as 2000 x 2000 pixels. I can't save my images as jpeg. I need to save them as psd format cause I need to preserve layers. Is there a way to optimize this or is this just a reality of print work that I'm not familiar with? No way around the size of the file other that compression. The more I think about it, the more I get confused. One more question about scanning. When I scan my photo (in x in) to get output of 2000x2000 pixels, isn't there a lot of interpolation done as compared to 800x600 pixels? Then what about the quality of 2000x2000 pixel image- isn't it degraded? Then I guess it's better to scan larger image to get a bigger resolution. Am I right? Hope some of you can clarify... Than Ben If you scan a 6 x 4 inch photo at 334 dpi, you get a 2004 x 1336 pixel image. There is no interpolation because the scanner is scanning at or below the optical resolution that it is capable of (assuming) a 600 dpi or more scanner. You did not say what the process of creating your original art work is, other that you scan photos and combine them in some process to make the finished product for the web. I understand that the final image is a 800 X 800 pixel electronic image for the Web. For the following process to work you will have to flatten the original image in Photoshop. (Make a copy first!). You also need a flatbed scanner that is at least 1200 DPI optical resolution. This method is not as good as creating an original image at 2000 pixels by 2000 pixels, but it may save you having to recreate images that you already have. 1. Print the 800 X 800 pixel image at 300 DPI on the best Photo paper using the Best quality setting of your Photo printer (Six color printer preferred). That will get you a 2.67 inch by 2.67 inch print. This print should look perfect with no flaws. Try until you get a perfect print. 2. Scan the 2.67 inch By 2.67 inch print at 750 DPI. That will give you a 2000 X 2000 pixel image. Adjust your scanner for the best image from the print. You may have to touch up the scanned image in Photoshop. By scanning at 750 dpi you are enlarging the image. You are not creating new pixels, you are simply enlarging what is there. 3. Print the 2000 X 2000 Pixel scanned and corrected image at 200 DPI on the best photo paper and best quality print setting, and you will have a 10 inch by 10 inch print. (And it should look very good!) 4. If you want a 300 DPI 10 inch print, in step 2, scan the 2.67 inch print at 1125 DPI and print the 3000 x 3000 pixel image at 300 DPI. This makes a second and third generation image, which is not as good as the original, but it may be good enough. No software can take a 800 pixel image and create a 2000 pixel image of any quality. However, you can enlarge a good print by scanning at a high DPI. Good luck! If you want to learn more, go to: http://www.scantips.com -- CSM1 http://www.carlmcmillan.com -- |
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