A Photography forum. PhotoBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PhotoBanter.com forum » General Photography » In The Darkroom
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

K-14 Process- alternatives?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 26th 04, 03:58 AM
Some Dude
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default K-14 Process- alternatives?

I have some Kodachrome KP40 that i've shot and am wondering if there
are alternative processes I can use other than sending it to Kodak for
processing using k-14. Perhaps E6?

I don't care too much about the pics but would like to at least get a
somewhat visible image.


Thanks!

Cheers,
-sd
http://www.zoom.sh
  #2  
Old May 26th 04, 06:26 AM
Donald Qualls
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default K-14 Process- alternatives?

Some Dude wrote:

I have some Kodachrome KP40 that i've shot and am wondering if there
are alternative processes I can use other than sending it to Kodak for
processing using k-14. Perhaps E6?

I don't care too much about the pics but would like to at least get a
somewhat visible image.


If you can get some idea of starting times, you can process K-14 film in
B&W chemisty and obtain a B&W negative with the yellow filter layer
still in place (it's possible to remove the yellow filter layer, also,
but I don't recall how it's done -- it's part of the K-14 process).

Starting time can be roughly determined by putting a piece of leader in
your developer, and timing until (I'm told) it just starts to visibly
darken; develop for 20 times that interval. That should get you
printable images, if you can either print through the yellow layer
(which will act as either fog for graded papers, or a low contrast
filter for VC) or remove it.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

  #3  
Old May 26th 04, 12:44 PM
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default K-14 Process- alternatives?

Of course not.The K-14 process is VERY complex, and there aren't
alternatives.Why don't send to Kodak?"Film price includes processing".

--
Dimitris Tzortzakakis,Iraklion Crete,Greece
Analogue technology rules-digital sucks
http://www.patriko-kreta.com
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr the return adress is corrupted
? "Some Dude" ?????? ??? ??????
...
I have some Kodachrome KP40 that i've shot and am wondering if there
are alternative processes I can use other than sending it to Kodak for
processing using k-14. Perhaps E6?

I don't care too much about the pics but would like to at least get a
somewhat visible image.


Thanks!

Cheers,
-sd
http://www.zoom.sh



  #4  
Old May 26th 04, 01:26 PM
Mike King
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default K-14 Process- alternatives?

"Film Price Includes Processing" was discontinued in the United States many
years ago, the Federal Trade Commission deemed it restraint of trade.

One reason why it's always useful to indicate your country of origin in
questions of this sort.

Kodachrome is a complicated beastie, but as OP indicated it can be processed
to some sort of BW image, OTOH I have 400 feet of TMax 400 in my freezer and
see no need to experiment. It might be fun to try, I'm sure there are all
sorts of threads about removing the dye layers in older postings.

You do not want to talk the ignorant operator of your friendly neighborhood
mini-lab (he probably thinks of Kodachrome only as a song his dad sang) into
trying to process it. The older Kodachromes are not emulsion hardened and
melt in the 100 degree F. film processors and the newer ones will deposit
Kodachrome's RemJet backing as black cruddies all over the tanks and racks,
invoking all kinds of colorful vocabulary.

--
darkroommike

----------
"Tzortzakakis Dimitrios" wrote in
message ...
Of course not.The K-14 process is VERY complex, and there aren't
alternatives.Why don't send to Kodak?"Film price includes processing".

--
Dimitris Tzortzakakis,Iraklion Crete,Greece
Analogue technology rules-digital sucks
http://www.patriko-kreta.com
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr the return adress is corrupted
? "Some Dude" ?????? ??? ??????
...
I have some Kodachrome KP40 that i've shot and am wondering if there
are alternative processes I can use other than sending it to Kodak for
processing using k-14. Perhaps E6?

I don't care too much about the pics but would like to at least get a
somewhat visible image.


Thanks!

Cheers,
-sd
http://www.zoom.sh





  #5  
Old May 27th 04, 11:20 AM
Some Dude
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default K-14 Process- alternatives?

I'd like to keep the color, though.

I'll send it to Kodak. Thanks for the info.



On Wed, 26 May 2004 02:58:25 GMT, Some Dude wrote:

I have some Kodachrome KP40 that i've shot and am wondering if there
are alternative processes I can use other than sending it to Kodak for
processing using k-14. Perhaps E6?

I don't care too much about the pics but would like to at least get a
somewhat visible image.


Thanks!

Cheers,
-sd
http://www.zoom.sh


Cheers,
-sd
http://www.zoom.sh
  #6  
Old May 29th 04, 03:28 AM
Jazztptman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default K-14 Process- alternatives?

Some Dude asked I have some Kodachrome KP40 that i've shot and am wondering
if there are alternative processes I can use other than sending it to Kodak for
processing using k-14. Perhaps E6?

The major difference between K-14 and other color processes (E-6, C-41, RA-4)
is that in all other color films and papers, the couplers which create the
image dye are part of the emulsion (with the exception of Cibachrome). In K-14,
the film emulsion contains no couplers, they are in the cyan, magenta, and
yellow developers.

If you want color images, you can obtain them ONLY with K-14.


Bernie
  #7  
Old May 29th 04, 07:00 AM
Donald Qualls
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default K-14 Process- alternatives?

Jazztptman wrote:

Some Dude asked I have some Kodachrome KP40 that i've shot and am wondering
if there are alternative processes I can use other than sending it to Kodak for
processing using k-14. Perhaps E6?

The major difference between K-14 and other color processes (E-6, C-41, RA-4)
is that in all other color films and papers, the couplers which create the
image dye are part of the emulsion (with the exception of Cibachrome). In K-14,
the film emulsion contains no couplers, they are in the cyan, magenta, and
yellow developers.

If you want color images, you can obtain them ONLY with K-14.


Well, the other major difference is that the three emulsions receive
their reversal exposures and color development separately, though this
probably follows from the fact that the dye couplers are in the developers.

What it does do, though, is pretty much guarantee that there will never
be a home K-14 kit the way there have been for E-3, E-4, and E-6 (as
well as C-22 and C-41).

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

  #8  
Old May 30th 04, 04:55 AM
Jazztptman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default K-14 Process- alternatives?

E6, c41,ra4 all of them have half of a dye (coupler), Cibachrome contains
the whole dye, K14 has dyes added during processing (no dye in emulsion prior
to processing)Cibachrome materials processing depends on destruction of the
dye.

OK, why does everyone have to get so picky here. I answered the original
question in a simple matter so as not to overly complicate the issue. K-14 is
complicated enough without trying to explain the process in detail, and I have
seen many misunderstandings about how it works on previous posts on the
subject.

Yes, Cibachrome is different, which is why I made a passing comment that it WAS
different from E-6, C-41, RA-4, etc...I just didn;t want to get into a full
post on how that process worked since it was not related to this subject.

Yes, the coupler in these other processes forms the imaging dye when it reacts
with oxidized color developer. There is NO coupler in Kodachrome films, it is
part of the individual color developer steps and each layer is reversed (2 by
physical light exposure through special filters, and one by a chemical foggant.

No, there will never be a home kit to do K-14 due to the physical demands of
the process; removal of rem jet backing, special reversal re-exposure filters;
plus the fact that the mixed chemicals have a short shelf life, so they need to
be made from scratch within a reasonable time of being used, and cannot sit on
a dealers shelf for months or years.


Bernie
  #9  
Old May 30th 04, 10:33 PM
Richard Knoppow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default K-14 Process- alternatives?


"Some Dude" wrote in message
...
I have some Kodachrome KP40 that i've shot and am

wondering if there
are alternative processes I can use other than sending it

to Kodak for
processing using k-14. Perhaps E6?

I don't care too much about the pics but would like to at

least get a
somewhat visible image.


Thanks!

Cheers,
-sd
http://www.zoom.sh


There is still Kodachrome processing for 35mm film which
should work on the tungsten version. Kodachrome film can be
developed to yield a B&W image by developing it in a
standard developer like D-76. The yellow filter layer is
composed of colloidal silver. It can be bleached without
much damage to the image by using a bleach made of fresh
acid rapid fixer with about 15 grams of Citric Acid added.
This will remove the very fine silver of the filter layer
without affecting the much coarser image silver too much,
but one must be careful of it. You can print with the filter
layer there by using panchromatic paper. I think the only
one left on the market is Kodak Panalure Select. You could
also make a duplicate negative.
The Kodachrome process is very complex. Kodachrome was
commercialized before Kodak had found a way to anchor dyes
in the emulsions to keep them from wandering. Agfa beat them
to the punch with this and Kodak chromogenic films had to
wait until they could come up with an alternative method.
Because the dye formers (or couplers) are in the reversal
developers the film must undergo four separate development
steps with intermediate stop, rinse, etc., steps. The
processing method used since about 1937 works by
differential re-exposure of the color layers so that the
dyes are produced in the desired layer. A first developer is
used that preserves the color sensitivity of the layer
closest to the support. This is a panchromatic layer which
records the red image. After the first development the film
is re-exposed to red light through the base. Only the bottom
layer is sensitive to red light so the other layers are not
made developable. After the bottom layer is re-developed in
a developer containing the red dye former it is exposed to
blue light from the front. The yellow filter layer between
the first and second layers remains intact so only the top
layer is exposed. It is then developed in the developer with
the yellow coupler. The middle (green recording) layer is
developed by use of a fogging agent in the developer, which
produces the magenta layer. After a positive dye image is
produced in all three layers all of the metallic silver is
removed using a dichromate bleach. This also removes the
filter layer, which again, is made of finely devided silver.
The result is a full color positive dye image. Of course,
there are many intermediate steps which I have left out.
The original Kodachrome process, used for only about one
year, required differential penetration of a bleach into the
developed layers. The film was washed and dried between each
development step. Drying was required so that the
permeablity of the gelatin would be predictable.
This was the process used for the very first (1935)
Kodachrome, which was available only as 16mm movie film.
When the differential re-exposure process was introduced the
film was made available in a wide range of sizes including
35mm, roll film, and sheet film up to 16x20 inches. All was
processed at Rochester although Kodak eventually built
processing plants for movie film and roll films in a couple
of other cities.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA



  #10  
Old June 2nd 04, 11:17 PM
Al Doyle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default K-14 Process- alternatives?

Somedude:

You can process Kodachrome in ordinary black and white
chemistry to get black and white negatives. Remember to
wipe off the remjet backing BEFORE loading it in your
reels, or you'll get a sticky sludge that takes a lot of time
to remove.

Al Doyle
.................................................. ...........................
...............................
"Some Dude" wrote in message
...
I have some Kodachrome KP40 that i've shot and am wondering if there
are alternative processes I can use other than sending it to Kodak for
processing using k-14. Perhaps E6?

I don't care too much about the pics but would like to at least get a
somewhat visible image.


Thanks!

Cheers,
-sd
http://www.zoom.sh



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 PhotoBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.