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Freeware to mix photos & music & video to create a DVD slide show



 
 
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  #31  
Old January 26th 09, 04:36 AM posted to alt.comp.freeware,rec.photo.digital,alt.video.dvd.authoring
Bill Wells
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Posts: 37
Default Freeware to mix photos & music & video to create a DVD slide show

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:00:09 -0600, M.L. wrote:

Forget Microsoft and Sony.
Photostage Slideshow Maker
http://www.nchsoftware.com/slideshow/index.html


Hi M.L.,

Thank you for your helpful advice!

PhotoStage SlideShow Producer v 1.12 looks like the only WinXP freeware
suggested so far which can directly output DVD-Video format files from a
combination of:
a. digital pictures (from my digital camera)
b. digital movies (from my digital camera)
c. MP3 audio (ripped & encoded as MP3s off my WAV CDs)

To be clear, all I'm looking for is Windows XP freeware that can take those
three types of files as input and output DVD-Video format files (i.e.,
VIDEO_TS\*.IFO,*.VOB files).

I'm not too worried if the program burns to DVD media (because ImgBurn
freeware does that for me). I'm not even worried if the DVD-Video format
files are larger than 4.7 GB because DVDShrink freeware will compress them
back to fit on single-layer DVD media.

The only step I don't want to manually do is the DVD-Video encoding (which
we all know can be done using DVDFlick freeware but as I said, I've used
that for years and it's problematic at best for me).

I'll test whether PhotoStage SlideShow Producer can take, as input, my
camera output to subsequently output DVD-Video format files. If it does, it
will be the only suggested freeware that can do what Sonic MyDVD does
today.
  #32  
Old January 26th 09, 04:37 AM posted to alt.comp.freeware,rec.photo.digital,alt.video.dvd.authoring
Tony Cooper
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Posts: 4,748
Default Freeware to mix photos & music & video to create a DVD slide show

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:56:46 -0800, Bill Wells
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:03:30 -0500, tony cooper wrote:

I don't think you understand. *Any* program that creates a file that
will be burned to a DVD may not result in a DVD that will not play on
a particular DVD player. It's a *not* problem with MovieMaker or
Picture Story 3; it's a problem with the compatibility of the DVD
player and a DVD burned on a computer.


Hi Tony,
I think I understand, but, maybe I don't so I'll explain what I understand
and others can more clearly tell me where I am mistaken.

Here's what I've understood ever since DVD media came out:
- You can put ANYTHING on DVD media ...
- But that doesn't mean your average DVD player will play it ...
- Your average DVD plays

So what does your average DVD player play?
- Most play only DVD-format files (IFO & VOB)
- That means a mandatory VIDEO_TS at the top level (& optionally AUDIO_TS)
- The AUDIO_TS folder is generally empty; the files are all in VIDEO_TS
- In the VIDEO_TS folder are the mandatory IFO (information) files
- You can read those IFO files with IFOedit freeware
- In the VIDEO_TS folder are also VOB files (these are your video objects)
- Essentially the IFO files act like a table of contents to the VOB files
- Inside the VOB files are generally MPEG-2 encoded video streams
- The audio streams inside the VOB are generally MPEG-1 encoded
- The BUP (backup) files are just for the IFOs in case they're damaged
... etc...

I can go on but the point is that I do think I understand the basics of
what DVD-format data looks like, whether or not it's stored on DVD media.

SUMMARY:
If you're saying Microsoft Windows Movie Maker or Microsoft Picture Story 3
directly outputs these DVD-format files, then I stand corrected.
- VIDEO_TS\{VIDEO_TS.IFO,VTS_O1_0.IFO,VTS_01_0.BUP,e tc.}


No, they don't. But they don't claim they do, and you keep saying
Microsoft is lying. The Microsoft programs will create a file that
can be burned on to a DVD. Whether or not your DVD player will play
those DVDs is not something Microsoft can claim.

In my case, the files I create in the two Microsoft programs, that I
burn to a DVD, play in one of my DVD players. They do not play in the
other one, but I don't blame Microsoft.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
  #33  
Old January 26th 09, 04:47 AM posted to alt.comp.freeware,rec.photo.digital,alt.video.dvd.authoring
Bill Wells
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Freeware to mix photos & music & video to create a DVD slide show

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:37:40 -0500, tony cooper wrote:

If you're saying Microsoft Windows Movie Maker or Microsoft Picture Story 3
directly outputs these DVD-format files, then I stand corrected.
- VIDEO_TS\{VIDEO_TS.IFO,VTS_O1_0.IFO,VTS_01_0.BUP,e tc.}


No, they don't.


Thanks. That's what I was hoping to achieve. BTW, I'm aware that I can
probably use something like DVD Flick to take the output that the Microsoft
programs do output to convert it to DVD-Video format. And, I might have to
go that route. But I was hoping to skip that extra step, mostly because
I've used DVD Flick freeware for years and more often than I like, it takes
8 hours or it hangs forever or the sound is out of sync.

But they don't claim they do, and you keep saying Microsoft is lying.


Well, here's exactly what they say on their tutorial for "making DVDs":
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/u...savetodvd.mspx

"Part of the tradition of home moviemaking is gathering the family around
the TV to watch the movie. You donąt have to give up that tradition when
you make the switch to digital video. You can save a Windows Movie Maker
project to a high-quality video file, and then burn (or write) that file to
a DVD using a DVD burner and video DVD burning program. You can then watch
the DVD in almost any standard DVD player. DVDs are a great way to share
movies with friends and family, and they make great gifts."

Now, between you and me, they didn't directly LIE because everything they
said is legally true .. but really .. we both know that the "high quality
video" file output by Microsoft Windows Movie Maker is NOT a DVD-Video
file.

And, we both know that the chances of watching that non-DVD-Video movie "in
almost any standard DVD player" is really really low.

Now, we both also know that even a perfectly good DVD-Video format DVD
won't play in every DVD player ... but c'mon ... you have to agree that
Microsoft is asserting implications here that are patently untrue in
practice.
  #34  
Old January 26th 09, 05:01 AM posted to alt.comp.freeware,rec.photo.digital,alt.video.dvd.authoring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Freeware to mix photos & music & video to create a DVD slide show

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:56:46 -0800, Bill Wells
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:03:30 -0500, tony cooper wrote:

I don't think you understand. *Any* program that creates a file that
will be burned to a DVD may not result in a DVD that will not play on
a particular DVD player. It's a *not* problem with MovieMaker or
Picture Story 3; it's a problem with the compatibility of the DVD
player and a DVD burned on a computer.


Hi Tony,
I think I understand, but, maybe I don't so I'll explain what I understand
and others can more clearly tell me where I am mistaken.

Here's what I've understood ever since DVD media came out:
- You can put ANYTHING on DVD media ...
- But that doesn't mean your average DVD player will play it ...
- Your average DVD plays

So what does your average DVD player play?
- Most play only DVD-format files (IFO & VOB)
- That means a mandatory VIDEO_TS at the top level (& optionally AUDIO_TS)
- The AUDIO_TS folder is generally empty; the files are all in VIDEO_TS
- In the VIDEO_TS folder are the mandatory IFO (information) files
- You can read those IFO files with IFOedit freeware
- In the VIDEO_TS folder are also VOB files (these are your video objects)
- Essentially the IFO files act like a table of contents to the VOB files
- Inside the VOB files are generally MPEG-2 encoded video streams
- The audio streams inside the VOB are generally MPEG-1 encoded
- The BUP (backup) files are just for the IFOs in case they're damaged
... etc...

I can go on but the point is that I do think I understand the basics of
what DVD-format data looks like, whether or not it's stored on DVD media.

SUMMARY:
If you're saying Microsoft Windows Movie Maker or Microsoft Picture Story 3
directly outputs these DVD-format files, then I stand corrected.
- VIDEO_TS\{VIDEO_TS.IFO,VTS_O1_0.IFO,VTS_01_0.BUP,e tc.}


You're STILL mixing apples and oranges. Microsoft's Movie Maker does
NOT create what you refer to as DVD-format files. Period. IF you have
the right version of Microsoft's Vista there is an included SEPERATE
program called Windows's DVD Maker. It comes with Vista Home Premium
and Ultimate versions only.

As you already know Microsoft is somewhat careless in how they state
what their software does that only adds to the confusion.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...dvd-maker.aspx

Movie Maker, will generate MPEG-2 files. The source of creating files
that end up in a DVD's Video_TS folder.

To further confuse the issue DVD Maker is supposedly capable of taking
a project file from Movie Maker and will make a playable DVD from that
or so others have told me, myself having Vista Business which does not
include DVD Maker I don't know. Even if it did I would not use it
since it is so limited in what it can do.

I have played around with Microsoft's Movie Maker and it is garbage.
True to Microsoft's legacy indifference for their customers the
concept is good, but the implementation is horrible resulting in it
being a very unstable program that will drive you crazy. More so if
you try to add mixed file types to the timeline and if your project is
more than a few minutes in length.

Photo Story 3 can supposedly burn DVD's but only with a plug-in from
Sonic that costs $20.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/u...ryactives.mspx

Surprise... looking at the Sonic site it hints that the plug-in only
generates bland nearly featureless slideshow type presentations since
Sonic offers an "advanced" option to tease you to buy their (dorky)
MyDVD (I have version 9)which is really a Roxio product, a company
they (Sonic) owns, which supports at least some true DVD features like
chapters. I'll bet anything the basic plug-in does not. Having tried
several versions of Roxio software over the years I'll add their
products are at best one step above Microsoft's level of competence
which isn't saying much. Besides Roxio has some of the most clumsy
software out there.
  #35  
Old January 26th 09, 06:02 AM posted to alt.comp.freeware,rec.photo.digital,alt.video.dvd.authoring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Freeware to mix photos & music & video to create a DVD slide show

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:47:59 -0800, Bill Wells
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:37:40 -0500, tony cooper wrote:

If you're saying Microsoft Windows Movie Maker or Microsoft Picture Story 3
directly outputs these DVD-format files, then I stand corrected.
- VIDEO_TS\{VIDEO_TS.IFO,VTS_O1_0.IFO,VTS_01_0.BUP,e tc.}


No, they don't.


Thanks. That's what I was hoping to achieve. BTW, I'm aware that I can
probably use something like DVD Flick to take the output that the Microsoft
programs do output to convert it to DVD-Video format. And, I might have to
go that route. But I was hoping to skip that extra step, mostly because
I've used DVD Flick freeware for years and more often than I like, it takes
8 hours or it hangs forever or the sound is out of sync.

But they don't claim they do, and you keep saying Microsoft is lying.


Well, here's exactly what they say on their tutorial for "making DVDs":
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/u...savetodvd.mspx

"Part of the tradition of home moviemaking is gathering the family around
the TV to watch the movie. You don’t have to give up that tradition when
you make the switch to digital video. You can save a Windows Movie Maker
project to a high-quality video file, and then burn (or write) that file to
a DVD using a DVD burner and video DVD burning program. You can then watch
the DVD in almost any standard DVD player. DVDs are a great way to share
movies with friends and family, and they make great gifts."

Now, between you and me, they didn't directly LIE because everything they
said is legally true .. but really .. we both know that the "high quality
video" file output by Microsoft Windows Movie Maker is NOT a DVD-Video
file.

And, we both know that the chances of watching that non-DVD-Video movie "in
almost any standard DVD player" is really really low.

Now, we both also know that even a perfectly good DVD-Video format DVD
won't play in every DVD player ... but c'mon ... you have to agree that
Microsoft is asserting implications here that are patently untrue in
practice.



Claim: "You can save a Windows Movie Maker project to a high-quality
video file..."

Truth: What Microsoft is talking about is creating a MPEG-2 file. Yes,
their Movie Maker application does that. Still buggy and slow.

Claim: "a DVD-Video file"

Truth. I rarely see anyone so hung-up on a term. Hint. There is no
specific thing as you keep referring to. The Video_TS structure
containing VOB and other files is but ONE format that can be
played off a DVD. With the right player you can encode a DVD to
play a slideshow of just raw JPEG images, or DivX, even AVI or
raw MPEG, even a mixture.

The Video_TS structure is by far the most popular and most widely
supported way to "burn" a DVD that has one or more videos and/or
slideshow. Remember... a slideshow is really nothing but a string of
still images converted to (usually) a MPEG-2 stream then made in VOB
files. Big deal.

I'll go way out on a limb and assume you know the difference between
the various media formats like DVD- and DVD+. That is one reason a
specific DVD may not play on some DVD players. Another reason is the
bitrate. Most beginners encode too high thinking that will result in
"better" image quality resulting in the DVD player stalling off and on
if it is able to properly decode the files at all.

As you can tell I'm no fan of Microsoft. They are simply using
puffing. A common advertising style that lets say stretches the truth
almost to the point it breaks. All software companies do it to some
extent.

Claim: Microsoft says it(DVD Maker)will create DVD's.

Truth: Well to stretch the point, yes. Assuming you have the correct
Vista version that includes DVD Maker which can (so I'm told)
convert the completed Movie Maker files. Maybe I haven't made
it clear yet. We're talking TWO separate programs Movie Maker
comes in all versions of Vista, DVD Maker only comes with
the Home Premium and Ultimate versions. So with Movie Maker you
will get as far as making compliant MPEG-2 source files from
WHICH another application can use to make the Video_TS file
structure, but you can't do it with just Movie Make. If you
have the RIGHT version of Vista, you also get DVD Maker which
will make the Video_TS file structure.

Claim: Chapters with DVD Maker?

Truth: Only the Rube Goldberg method. Again I'm told, (I wouldn't be
caught dead using Micrsoft crap) you have two choices, either
accept default breaks where Microsoft puts them or go through
the insane step of first making a separate project in Movie
Maker for EACH Chapter then add these to DVD Maker, but
(laughable) you still won't be able to add the chapter titles to
any menu rendering any such attempt useless.

Repeating until it sinks in ===

For video editing and even more importantly for DVD Authoring any and
all Freeware solutions are crap and will not give you anything close
to commercial grade DVD's. The reason is quite simple. Many of the
more advanced programming tricks are copyright protected and no
freeware author could afford to pay the royalties.

It's been years since I checked. I think it's called the red book, if
not some other color. Just to get the "book" which simply spells out
the full specifications of the DVD format and HOW to code for it costs
hundreds of dollars and isn't available to the general public even if
you wanted to get a copy and then you would still need to be a
professional grade programmer to understand the coding methods which
are complex.

The same is true for freeware video editors. The MPEG-2 encoding
scheme is also copyright protected and to get a LEGAL copy royalties
need to be paid to the owners. Again, something no freeware author can
afford. So if that's what you're using and the result looks sort of
crappy, now you know why. You're probably using a pirated knock-off
decoder and the decoder/encoder is at the heart of any application
that creates the necessary MPEG-2 files. A none standard encoder
meaning some rip-off hack can introduce all kinds of issues into the
files you need to make a DVD.

Learning yet?
  #36  
Old January 26th 09, 06:08 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
D.Mac[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 142
Default Freeware to mix photos & music & video to create a DVD slide show



"tony cooper" wrote in message
...

Best source for info on MovieMaker: http://www.papajohn.org/


Forgot to mention Photo Story 3...Papa John covers that well, too.
It's free from Microsoft and makes DVD slide shows.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/u...y/default.mspx

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida


Photo story 3 is not entirely free if you want to burn a DVD. You have to
buy a "Sonic" plugin that at best is a flakey bit of software that sometimes
works, sometimes doesn't.

What's wrong with spending a couple of bucks on ProShow? At least it works
properly!

D-Mac

  #37  
Old January 26th 09, 06:11 AM posted to alt.comp.freeware,rec.photo.digital,alt.video.dvd.authoring
J. Clarke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,690
Default Freeware to mix photos & music & video to create a DVD slide show

Bill Wells wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:20:46 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:

If it has to play on ANYONE's then you simply can't do it with a
computer. This has nothing to do with the software. Some DVD
players won't play a DVD+R no matter how it was burned. A few
won't
play a DVD-R no matter how it was burned. A few just plain don't
like anything but a factory-pressed DVD. Some are even picky about
brands.


Hi John,

OK. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you 'cuz you're the second person to
tell me that Microsoft Windows MovieMaker does output DVD-Video
format DVDs ... so, well, so I must be doing something wrong then.
Let it be stated I KNOW not every DVD player plays every DVD-Video
format DVD, even brand new DVD-Video format DVDs. We all know that.


And yet you seem to be upset with Microsoft about this like they are
somehow doing something different that causes this.

Nobody has asserted that Windows Movie Maker will burn DVDs. It
doesn't. That's not what it does, that's not what it is supposed to
do. Its function is to edit video files. That is all it does. What
you do with those video files after you have edited them is up to you.
You need a different product to organize those files as required,
generate the menus, and do the other things needed in order to create
a DVD.

In fact, as you noted, some DVD media is so crappy, it won't even
burn
properly no matter what you put on it (see this chart for the crappy
ones): http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

All I'm saying is that the Microsoft products don't seem to directly
output
4.7GB DVD-Video format files (either NTSC or PAL).


No, they do not. So what?

Simply stated, if
Microsoft tools don't directly output a top-level VIDEO_TS directory
containing video object (VOB) and information (IFO) files, then the
Microsoft products don't output DVD-Video data suitable to play on
your average DVD player.


Which "Microsoft tools"? Windows Movie Maker is not _supposed_ to do
that anymore than Adobe Premiere or any other video editor is supposed
to do that. The Microsoft tool for making DVDs is Windows DVD Maker,
not Windows Movie Maker, and it is not available for XP. DVD
authoring is a separate function from video editing. Why are you
having so much trouble understanding this?

Now maybe I'm wrong. And, if I am, I'll be glad 'cuz that means I
can
use the Microsoft product so please clarify for me.

MY QUESTION:
Are you saying Microsoft Windows Movie Maker outputs DVD-Video
format
data? (i.e., does MovieMaker create
VIDEO_TS\{VIDEO_TS.IFO,VIDEO_TS.VOB} files?)


No, I have never said that or anything that any reasonable person
could have construed in that fashion. Windows Movie Maker creates
files in a variety of formats incuding DV-AVI which should be
accepeted by any DVD authoring program. Authoring the DVD is done
using the DVD authoring program, not the video editor.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


  #38  
Old January 26th 09, 06:51 AM posted to alt.comp.freeware,rec.photo.digital,alt.video.dvd.authoring
Tony Cooper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,748
Default Freeware to mix photos & music & video to create a DVD slide show

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:47:59 -0800, Bill Wells
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:37:40 -0500, tony cooper wrote:

If you're saying Microsoft Windows Movie Maker or Microsoft Picture Story 3
directly outputs these DVD-format files, then I stand corrected.
- VIDEO_TS\{VIDEO_TS.IFO,VTS_O1_0.IFO,VTS_01_0.BUP,e tc.}


No, they don't.


Thanks. That's what I was hoping to achieve. BTW, I'm aware that I can
probably use something like DVD Flick to take the output that the Microsoft
programs do output to convert it to DVD-Video format. And, I might have to
go that route. But I was hoping to skip that extra step, mostly because
I've used DVD Flick freeware for years and more often than I like, it takes
8 hours or it hangs forever or the sound is out of sync.

But they don't claim they do, and you keep saying Microsoft is lying.


Well, here's exactly what they say on their tutorial for "making DVDs":
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/u...savetodvd.mspx

"Part of the tradition of home moviemaking is gathering the family around
the TV to watch the movie. You donąt have to give up that tradition when
you make the switch to digital video. You can save a Windows Movie Maker
project to a high-quality video file, and then burn (or write) that file to
a DVD using a DVD burner and video DVD burning program. You can then watch
the DVD in almost any standard DVD player. DVDs are a great way to share
movies with friends and family, and they make great gifts."

Now, between you and me, they didn't directly LIE because everything they
said is legally true .. but really .. we both know that the "high quality
video" file output by Microsoft Windows Movie Maker is NOT a DVD-Video
file.

And, we both know that the chances of watching that non-DVD-Video movie "in
almost any standard DVD player" is really really low.

Now, we both also know that even a perfectly good DVD-Video format DVD
won't play in every DVD player ... but c'mon ... you have to agree that
Microsoft is asserting implications here that are patently untrue in
practice.


Microsoft is guilty of no more than what is called in the law
"puffery". (Look it up. It's a real legal term.) The term "high
quality" is a user-defined term (unless they define it) and the
quality is high enough for most home movie applications. Any software
program I've ever seen or read about does the same as Microsoft.

What I don't understand is that you seem to want high quality output
that will work on any DVD, but you are looking to create it for free.
If it's that important to you, pop for a real program. You want
professional results without being willing to pay for the
professionalism.

Nor do I understand why you keep turning down suggestions to try the
various programs that have been suggested. You don't seem to have
attempted to use either MovieMaker or Picture Story 3, and really have
no idea if they will work for your application or not. It's no big
deal to download, install, and try a program. You just uninstall if
they don't work.





--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
  #39  
Old January 26th 09, 07:29 AM posted to alt.comp.freeware,rec.photo.digital
Susan Bugher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Freeware to mix photos & music & video to create a DVD slideshow

tony cooper wrote:

The problem is that not all DVD players will play DVDs made on
computers no matter what program creates the DVD. If you create a DVD
on your computer, and it plays on your computer, you don't really know
that it will play on a DVD player hooked to a television. I have two
DVD players; each connected to a different TV set. One plays DVDs I
create on the computer and the other doesn't. I have no idea what the
difference is in players.


You can probably find out which CD and DVD formats each of your DVD
players supports by searching he
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers
VideoHelp.com - DVD Player and Blu-ray Player Compatibility List

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://www.google.com/advanced_group....comp.freeware
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelesswa http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)
  #40  
Old January 26th 09, 07:47 AM posted to alt.comp.freeware,rec.photo.digital,alt.video.dvd.authoring
Bill Wells
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Freeware to mix photos & music & video to create a DVD slide show

On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 00:11:04 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
Nobody has asserted that Windows Movie Maker will burn DVDs.
Its function is to edit video files. That is all it does.
You need a different product to organize those files


Hi John,

It's OK now. I appreciate the clarification (and I apologize if I didn't
understand initially).

I think we totally agree on the main points. I somehow thought when I asked
for a 1:1 freeware replacement for Sonic MyDVD that the suggested Microsoft
Windows Movie Maker might be a perfect fit. That's all. Hence I was
confused.

I now know, and I think we all agree, that to replace the major
functionality of Sonic MyDVD, we'd need to add two additional software
actions to the output from Windows MovieMaker, the first to "organize" the
output from Windows Movie Maker into DVD-Video format files, and the second
to burn those DVD-Video format files to good-quality DVD media.

For me, the first freeware choice of those two programs would be:
1. Feed JPEG + MP3 + MOV into Windows MovieMaker, then feed that to
2. DVD Flick - To convert to 4.7 GB DVD-Video format, then feed that to
3. ImgBurn - To burn the results to single-layer 4.7GB DVD media

The good news is we now all agree on what Microsoft Windows MovieMaker does
and doesn't do - and, we can agree, it's certainly not a 1:1 replacement to
Sonic MyDVD, but, in defense of Windows Movie Maker, by adding this
additional key functionality, it probably would be a decent replacement.

Thanks for all your insight; it is much appreciated.
 




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