Batteries that fit

Paul Furman wrote:
740mAh vs 700mAh says how long they will hold a charge while being used.

Just as 15 liter vs. 12 liter says how long you can drive with a tank of
gas.....

jue

Paul Furman wrote:
ASAAR wrote:

What had me more puzzled than any of the discussion of charge,
though, was when you mentioned AAs in your reply to the OP. Did you
miss a cup or two of coffee?

I can't tell what shape the batteries discussed are g and it seemed
obvious that they were some sort of standard shape, not a proprietary
shape like I'm accustomed to, so maybe AAs shrug. Obviously I'm not
familiar with the type being discussed but google does show AA Li-Ion
batteries. I guess the missing coffee is in the idea that one battery
could power a camera g.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...ery+type+NP-45
OK, looks just like my cell phone batteries g

Don't confuse "lithium" with "lithium ion"--they aren't the same.

There are 1.5v lithium AA batteries that substitute for regular AA
batteries--they are expensive and non rechargeable but have a very long
shelf life--they're good for emergency flashlights and the like for that
reason.

There are also a few 3.6v lithium-ion batteries that are the same physical
size as AAs--they are _not_ substitutes for AAs though due to having more
than twice the voltage. Nobody with any sense designs consumer products to
run on them though--it's just asking for trouble.

There's also the CR-V3 battery, which is 3.6v lithium or lithium ion and
replaces _two_ AA batteries side by side (in equipment with battery
compartments designed so that such batteries fit)--they can be a good choice
for equipment that will take them.

How important is battery type to a digital camera?
We have two, supplied new with
Fuji Li-Ion battery type NP-45 = 3.7v at 740mAh
GE Li-ion battery Model DS5370 = 3.7v at 700mAh

Should these be interchangeable i.e. usable in
either camera?

740mAh vs 700mAh says how long they will hold a charge [sic], not
much difference in this case. If these are AA you probably don't
want to mix them.

740mAh vs 700mAh says how long they will hold a charge while being
used.

And if you look the two up you'll find that the NP-45 is a substitute for
the GE DS5370--odds are that the GE camera is a rebadged Fuji that takes the
same battery.

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:55:15 -0700, Paul Furman wrote:

I can't tell what shape the batteries discussed are g and it seemed
obvious that they were some sort of standard shape, not a proprietary
shape like I'm accustomed to, so maybe AAs shrug. Obviously I'm not
familiar with the type being discussed but google does show AA Li-Ion
batteries. I guess the missing coffee is in the idea that one battery
could power a camera g.

I don't think any manufacturer would be allowed to make an AA
battery (that could be placed in a modern device that uses AA
batteries by mistake) that uses Li-Ion technology. The voltage is
far too high. A camera that uses four AA cells would see about 5.0
volts from NiMH AA cells, 6.0 volts from alkalines, and maybe a bit
over 6.5 volts from lithium AA cells. But four Li-Ion AA cells
would provide nearly 15 volts, and probably damage anything they
powered. Can you provide a link to Li-Ion AA batteries? There are
some that have the AA shape, but they're not AA cells. The way
they're designed, the + terminal is much wider than that used in
real AA cells, and won't make electrical contact in AA NiMH chargers
nor will they make contact in newer, properly designed devices that
use AA cells. Also, the few companies that sell these don't call
them AA cells. They say "AA size" instead. Greenbattery's FAQ
(found in the same google search for "Li-Ion AA batteries") says :

Lithium ion batteries are not available in standard cells
sizes (AA, C and D) like NiMH and NiCd batteries.

http://www.greenbatteries.com/libafa.html

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:56:38 +1000, Bob Larter wrote:

I don't think any manufacturer would be allowed to make an AA
battery (that could be placed in a modern device that uses AA
batteries by mistake) that uses Li-Ion technology. The voltage is
far too high. A camera that uses four AA cells would see about 5.0
volts from NiMH AA cells,

4.8V, not 5.0V.

Bob, my 5.0 volts was only an approximation. I actually measure
higher than 1.3v from freshly charged NiMH cells so it probably
would have been more accurate had I said about 5.5v. Energizer's
data sheets for their AA cells (No. NH15, at 21ºC/70ºF) has several
charts showing voltage/time under different loads. At 185ma and
370ma the voltage curves start at 1.4v. At 370ma the voltage drops
to 1.3v after about 35 to 40 minutes, and to 1.2v after more than 4
hours. The voltage then drops fairly rapidly, reaching 1.15v after
about 4.9 hours, and by that point the AA cell is almost completely
exhausted. The 185ma load curve shows that the voltage drops to
1.3v after a little more than an hour, reaches 1.2v after a little
less than 9 hours, and is almost completely exhausted at 1.1v just
shy of 10 hours. There are also voltage/time curves for 925ma,
1,850ma and 3,700ma.

This last one is interesting, showing the effect of the cell's
internal resistance because within a minute or two (or possibly
seconds - it's hard to read this part of the curve) the voltage
drops to 1.05v and reaches 1.0v after a few minutes and maintains
that voltage for about another 15 minutes, then declines more
rapidly until the cell in nearly exhausted, with the voltage
dropping to 0.9v by about 25 minutes.

These charts were for Energizer's older 1,850mAh NiMH cells.
Their data sheets for the newer 2,500mAh cells have nearly identical
curves but they're for greater loads, ranging from 250ma to 5,000ma
at the same temperature. The only curve that shows that most of the
current is provided at 1.2 volts is when the current load is
5,000ma, quite a bit higher than digital cameras draw, and almost
two times greater than lithium AA cells are able to deliver.

Don Phillipson wrote:
How important is battery type to a digital camera?
We have two, supplied new with
Fuji Li-Ion battery type NP-45 = 3.7v at 740mAh
GE Li-ion battery Model DS5370 = 3.7v at 700mAh

Should these be interchangeable i.e. usable in
either camera?

Yes, those are the same size battery. The original battery is a
GE/Sanyo, since the Fuji cameras are made by Sanyo. The same battery is
used in some Pentax, Olympus, and Nikon models, also manufactured by Sanyo.

J. Clarke wrote:

And if you look the two up you'll find that the NP-45 is a substitute for
the GE DS5370--odds are that the GE camera is a rebadged Fuji that takes the
same battery.

Unlikely. A bunch of cameras made by Sanyo, including ones from Nikon,
Pentax, Fuji, and Olympus use that battery. Sanyo tends to use the same
battery in the cameras they build for different companies, within the
restrictions of similar capacity and voltage.