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A question for Applefans



 
 
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  #61  
Old September 11th 15, 08:28 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
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Default A question for Applefans

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

The first "flamefest" comments were made by you:

You said "learn to read" and "it's called progress, something you do
not like".

that was in my *second* post, after you started in with your ranting.

Yes, I know.


so you agree it's your doing.


Nope. You needn't have jumped in.


answering the question is jumping in??

However, I had not said anything remotely in the area of
a "flamefest" prior to that.


aside from your trollish remark at the outset, your response to my
reply is where the flaming began. not before that.

You were the first, weasel boy.


wrong. now you're flat out lying.

*you* were the first, which you even admitted above.


I quoted your flamefest remarks, and they were before I said anything
derogatory about you.


nope. what you call flamefest remarks were in response to *your*
flamefest comments.

You can't cover it up. It's quoted here, weasel boy.


it shows you to be the lying sack of **** that you are.
  #62  
Old September 11th 15, 09:06 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sandman
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Posts: 5,467
Default A question for Applefans

In article , Andreas Skitsnack
wrote:

Savageduck:
Tony, I am disappointed. Here I was believing that you were a
better informed consumer. Just as there are differences and
improvements in cameras, there are differences and improvements
in iPhones. I have a feeling that you might have had an iP4 or
iP4S dumped on you.


There is a attitude in this group that one person's interests should
be everyone's interest. I don't share that attitude.


It's a phone. It does exactly what I expect a phone to do, and does
some things beyond that. Some of the things it is capable of do not
interest me. When my contract ran out with my previous provider, I
picked out a phone from the display at my current provider.


snip 'it's just a phone, whatever'

Unlike some people who think that everyone who doesn't own the
latest shiny object indicates caveman mentality, I buy what meets my
own needs.


No one in this thread has said anything about you having to have the latest and
greatest. Duck was amazed that you put so little thought and concern into your
purchase of a phone, which is quite the contrary to your above claim that you
bought the phone that met your needs - it is quite clear that you did minimal
to no research to what phone may or may not meet your need, and your entire
tirade about what you use your iPhone for shows that the iPhone does a lot more
than meet your need, and is thus total overkill for your needs.

I don't think others are wrong to feel they need a more
sophisticated device, but I do think they are wrong to think I'm
doing something wrong.


Who said you did something wrong other than not doing proper research to find
the device that best fit your needs?

If I have an iphone 4, (not that I know that I do or don't)


Yes you do - you have been given detailed information on how to determine what
model iPhone you own.

Like I said, don't confuse your interests with mine.


Sigh, typical Andreas illiteracy. Duck never claimed you should have an
interest in smart phones, he was just confused that you were such an uninformed
buyer that you would get just about anything without a single thought about
what you bought. He thought *better* about your judgement than you have shown.

Andreas Skitsnack:
The iPad is an iPad Mini, but I have no idea if there are model
numbers for iPads. Again, I went to the Apple store in the mall
and bought what was available at the time.


Savageduck:
I am baffled by your purchasing methodology. At a minimum I might
have thought you would have done some online research.


Like the phone, it does exactly what I wanted a device to do when I
bought it.


It does a million things more than what you want a phone to do when you bought
it. You bought something that is capable of doing so much more and you use a
fraction of its capabilities

I use it primarily - and almost exclusively - as a way
to display photographs that I've put up on Dropbox.


Which any phone at a tenth of the price of an iPhone can do. You don't need an
iPhone for that.

I didn't need to do online research to know it would do what I
wanted. I'd looked at iPads that other people use and knew what it
would do. I spent more time on the internet finding a good deal on
the Otterbox for my phone than I spent making the buying decision
for either the phone or the iPad.


And that's what amazed Duck, that you would do such uninformed purchases.

--
Sandman
  #63  
Old September 11th 15, 09:14 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sandman
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Posts: 5,467
Default A question for Applefans

In article , Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

Savageduck:
It was dumped on you because that particular vendor was clearing
their inventory of EOL iPhones. Knowing your needs they should
have sold you something else. As a allegedly knowledgeable
consumer you should have been more aware when you entered that
establishment.


OK...I took the Otter case off and looked at it. It's a Model
A1387, which - according to the web - makes it an iPhone4S. That
it's a 4S and not a 5 or whatever hasn't made any difference to me,
and I'm no better or worse off for the knowing.


The store didn't dump anything on me. I didn't even talk to a clerk
until I walked up to one and said this is the one I want. I really
don't recall if the 5 was available when I got my 4S. I don't like
to deal with clerks. All this one wanted to do, once I told him
what I wanted, was to bump me up into a higher data plan.


If I recall correctly, the price was the same on a number of phones
because I had no contract obligation, so it wasn't a "deal" because
of the model. With a contract, all the phones were just a few bucks
and price wasn't a factor.


What has my head spinning is that this is all something you feel is
important. I can't think why it would be. It does everything I
want and expect in a phone. Why can't you understand this?


Typical trolling here and willful misinterpretation.

Savageduck thought you were a "knowledgable consumer", he hasn't said anything
about you buying the wrong phone, or proposing a better phone for you. He
probably couldn't care less what phone you use.

He is expressing amazement that you are so ignorant about what you are
purchasing, probably because his image of you was that you were someone that
didn't just buy any old toaster or refrigerator, and that you actually took some
time to do some research into what you spend your money on. That's what he "can't
understand". You have adequately proven him wrong.

--
Sandman
  #64  
Old September 11th 15, 09:14 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
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Default A question for Applefans

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

There are differences,
big differences between iP4, iP4S, iP5, iP5C, iP5S, and those that have
followed.
This is like saying that you bought a Ford. We ask what model, and you
say you don't know, it's just a car and I use it for the occasional
driving need. When pressed you tell us it is a 1979 Pinto, but it is a
Ford.

Well, it's a bit different. You say there are "big differences"
between a 4, 4S, 5, and 5S. I suppose there are differences, but
whether they are "big" or not could be debatable. When you get into
the physically larger models with bigger screens, I'd agree the
difference is big.


it's only debatable by those who are uninformed.

the differences between the various models are anywhere from big to
very substantial.


Like I said, debatable between the 4/4s and 5/5s. Weasel replies
don't change that.


it's not debatable nor is it weaseling.

the differences between the 4/4s, 4s/5 and 5/5s are huge and that's
just one model revision.

comparing a 4 to a 5s is *really* huge.

the screen size difference is minor compared to the rest,


giggle The larger screen is a major selling point to many phone
buyers.


not with the 5 it wasn't.

the attraction of the 6/6+ is the larger display. the difference
between a 4s and 5 display is minor. the width is identical. only the
length changed, adding just one more row of icons. big deal.

all that does is make a webpage a little longer, but it's just as
narrow so it requires just as much sideways scrolling to read it unless
you can read text so tiny that each letter is only a couple of pixels
high.

Many - probably most - users don't give a damn about minor
internal changes. It's only the Apple wonks who care.


i'll ignore your jerk comment and it is wrong.

they *do* care about the changes which is why a lot of people break
their contracts to upgrade early.

and the
screen size only changed slightly between the 4s & 5 anyway.

Like I said...not big differences.


like i said, that was minor. the other differences are much more
significant.

Ask me what kind of car I drive and I'll tell you a Toyota RAV4. If
you want to know what year it is, I'll add that. Basically, though,
the differences between my RAV4 and RAV4s in the next two or three
model years are minor. Like the iPhone4 and the iPhone6S, when
there's a number of model changes over the years there are some big
differences between my RAV4 and the currently available new models.


the differences between an iphone 4 and 6s are so substantial that it
could even be considered to be an entirely new product class, it's that
different.

on the other hand, vehicles don't change all that much from year to
year. there may be some minor feature additions but they don't
fundamentally change the way the vehicle is used.


Nonsense. Current models have in-dash screens, cameras, and a whole
bunch of gadgetry not on my RAV4 and were not available.


those are minor.

a major change to your vehicle would be if the gas engine was replaced
with an electric motor or a hybrid, or if some form of autonomous
control was added.

adding a backup camera is minor. they aren't even all that useful
anyway. the other gadgetry can be added aftermarket and often do a
better job. for instance, third party gps navigation systems are
usually much better, much cheaper and certainly more up to date than
what's included with a vehicle.

The monthly provider charge is the same for any phone. There is an
additional charge for a data plan, but the phone part of the bill is
the same for all phones.


not always true.


some carriers charge a premium for certain types of phones, even for
the same service or they require certain levels of service. also, they
might offer certain services for some phones and not with others.

so no, it's not the same for any phone.


Yes, it is true for me, and this is about my choice of my phone from
my carrier.

You pop out "that's not the issue" like it's from a macro, but you
want to move the goal posts here. "Some carriers" is not the issue
here. The issue here is what my provider does and how it affected my
buying decision.


i'm not moving anything.

you made a false statement: The monthly provider charge is the same for
any phone.

it's *not* the same for any phone.

you said you use at&t. guess what. a dumbphone on at&t will cost less
per month than a smartphone because at&t requires a data plan for a
smartphone even if you don't use any data. it's *not* optional.

you would need to find another carrier, likely an mvno, to have a
non-data plan on a smartphone.

I gotta admit, you are the master of twisting things around.


i'm not twisting *anything*.
  #65  
Old September 11th 15, 09:25 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sandman
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Posts: 5,467
Default A question for Applefans

In article , Andreas Skitsnack
wrote:

Savageduck:
So, the iP4S is the puppy which licked your face and it didn't
matter what it did. You didn't really know any of the features,
or capability. Did you ask anything about the phone?


What's to ask? It's not like what an iPhone was like was a secret.
At the time, many people I was around had iPhones. I could see
enough of what it did to know that it would suffice.


There really weren't that many things to ask about. The facts that
it made and recieved calls, took photographs, and had a display
keypad were givens. (I had one of those phones before with a keys
on the surface instead of a display keypad, and hated it.)


Really, Duck, what would I have learned if I did research?


That an iPhone is way overkill for your needs.

I ended up with a very popular phone at the time just as the people
who did do research did. I knew Apple was coming out with a new and
improved model at some time, but that's always the case. Whatever
you buy today will be outdated tomorrow.


That's not the point.

Andreas Skitsnack:
If I recall correctly, the price was the same on a number of
phones because I had no contract obligation, so it wasn't a
"deal" because of the model. With a contract, all the phones
were just a few bucks and price wasn't a factor.


Savageduck:
You still had no idea of what you were buying.


Oh, c'mon. You don't have to do research to know what an iPhone
does. They're all over the place. You can't be around other people
and not have someone pull out an iPhone. You can't be around other
people and not hear comments about their phone.


Which has nothing to do with anything. You should not have bought an iPhone.
You didn't do proper research and bought the wrong device.

It's like if you would buy a Nikon D4 just because you want to take selfies in
the car. It will obviously take very good selfies, but it's way overkill for
such a task.

Andreas Skitsnack:
What has my head spinning is that this is all something you feel
is important. I can't think why it would be.


Savageduck:
Nowhere have I said that I felt that any of this was important to
me,


You've considered it important enough to type line after line on the
subject. Instead of doing something else with your time, you
decided that castigating me for making what you feel was an
uninformed purchase was more important than doing something else.


Haha, ironic comment of the day.

Savageduck:
and it isn't. What I did say was, I am baffled by what amounts to
your blind consumerism.


You are the blind man who grabs the tail of an elephant and decides
it is shaped like a snake. This is one product, and a very minor
decision for me.


It was no decision for you, you just bought what you recognized by the sound of
it. Your friends have iPhone so whatever, I'll buy one as well, with no thought
about whether it is best for your needs.

--
Sandman
  #66  
Old September 11th 15, 09:35 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
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Posts: 24,165
Default A question for Applefans

In article ,
Sandman wrote:

It's like if you would buy a Nikon D4 just because you want to take selfies
in
the car. It will obviously take very good selfies, but it's way overkill for
such a task.


exactly, and then when asked, he'd reply "i don't know which model it
is. all i know is that it's a nikon and my lenses fit."
  #67  
Old September 11th 15, 09:50 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default A question for Applefans

On 2015-09-11 20:14:23 +0000, Sandman said:

In article , Andreas
Skitsnack wrote:

Savageduck:
It was dumped on you because that particular vendor was clearing
their inventory of EOL iPhones. Knowing your needs they should
have sold you something else. As a allegedly knowledgeable
consumer you should have been more aware when you entered that
establishment.


OK...I took the Otter case off and looked at it. It's a Model
A1387, which - according to the web - makes it an iPhone4S. That
it's a 4S and not a 5 or whatever hasn't made any difference to me,
and I'm no better or worse off for the knowing.


The store didn't dump anything on me. I didn't even talk to a clerk
until I walked up to one and said this is the one I want. I really
don't recall if the 5 was available when I got my 4S. I don't like
to deal with clerks. All this one wanted to do, once I told him
what I wanted, was to bump me up into a higher data plan.


If I recall correctly, the price was the same on a number of phones
because I had no contract obligation, so it wasn't a "deal" because
of the model. With a contract, all the phones were just a few bucks
and price wasn't a factor.


What has my head spinning is that this is all something you feel is
important. I can't think why it would be. It does everything I
want and expect in a phone. Why can't you understand this?


Typical trolling here and willful misinterpretation.

Savageduck thought you were a "knowledgable consumer", he hasn't said anything
about you buying the wrong phone, or proposing a better phone for you. He
probably couldn't care less what phone you use.

He is expressing amazement that you are so ignorant about what you are
purchasing, probably because his image of you was that you were someone that
didn't just buy any old toaster or refrigerator, and that you actually
took some
time to do some research into what you spend your money on. That's what
he "can't
understand". You have adequately proven him wrong.


You have stated my position clearly.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #68  
Old September 12th 15, 12:00 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default A question for Applefans

On 2015-09-11 22:45:10 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 13:50:56 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:
On 2015-09-11 20:14:23 +0000, Sandman said:


Savageduck thought you were a "knowledgable consumer", he hasn't said anything
about you buying the wrong phone, or proposing a better phone for you. He
probably couldn't care less what phone you use.

He is expressing amazement that you are so ignorant about what you are
purchasing, probably because his image of you was that you were someone that
didn't just buy any old toaster or refrigerator, and that you actually
took some
time to do some research into what you spend your money on. That's what
he "can't
understand". You have adequately proven him wrong.


You have stated my position clearly.


You research toasters, too?


Actually, yes.
....and coffee makers, microwave ovens, cameras, lenses, equipment bags,
software, my Wacom Intuos tablet, and so much more, but that is me. You
might say that is my defense against impulse buying.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #69  
Old September 12th 15, 02:43 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default A question for Applefans

On 2015-09-12 00:15:16 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 16:00:20 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:
On 2015-09-11 22:45:10 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 13:50:56 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:
On 2015-09-11 20:14:23 +0000, Sandman said:


Savageduck thought you were a "knowledgable consumer", he hasn't said anything
about you buying the wrong phone, or proposing a better phone for you. He
probably couldn't care less what phone you use.

He is expressing amazement that you are so ignorant about what you are
purchasing, probably because his image of you was that you were someone that
didn't just buy any old toaster or refrigerator, and that you actually
took some time to do some research into what you spend your money on.
That's what
he "can't understand". You have adequately proven him wrong.

You have stated my position clearly.

You research toasters, too?


Actually, yes.
...and coffee makers, microwave ovens, cameras, lenses, equipment bags,
software, my Wacom Intuos tablet, and so much more, but that is me. You
might say that is my defense against impulse buying.


All it sounds like you're doing is delaying a decision to stop the
impulse buying factor. Actually, that's not a bad strategy.


Product research is the bit I champ at when reining in that impulse
buying mustang.

I don't see how researching all products is productive.


It isn't. It is time consuming and sometimes brings disappointment with
the rejection of an item I had my heart set on. Sometimes it leads me
to a product I had not originally thought of.

I agree on most of the above, though. I just bought a new LowePro
sling bag. I
did research it, but not the way it seems like you would. I didn't
research it online. I don't care what other reviewers say, it has to
work with what I carry around.

I went to Colonial Photo* with all the kit I want to carry around and
put it into each bag that I thought would work for me to make sure it
fit. I'm using my 55/300 Nikon lens most of the time now, and I
wanted to make sure it fit in the bag on the body.


That was sensible, always follow up online research with bricks &
mortar investigation.

The only internet research was a quick peek at B&H and Adorama for
price. Both were lower than Colonial, but not enough to make me want
to be a jerk and not buy from the store where I tried all of the bags.


If it is possible, it is always good to support local vendors.

I'm not sure what research you'd do on a Wacom. There's no real
competition except some Chinese products that places like
Linkdelight.com list. As far as I was concerned, it was Wacom or
nothing. I'd already worked with a Bamboo, so I knew what size I
wanted. If reading Wacom's site is research, then I did research.
What else is there to look up?


Online is always a good place to start, and some local vendors have
demo models. My current Intuos is my second Wacom tablet.

I get the impression that your idea of research is web-based.


A fair amount of my initial research is online, that is a sensible and
cost saving way to go about the task. If a local vendor has the item I
will take myself to their establishment.

I'm more into hands-on. I'd handled iPhones before, so I really couldn't
gain much knowledge on the web.


Actually you could.

I bought a new flash unit a while back, but it was one that another
member of my camera club uses and I
tried his on my camera. He let me borrow it for a weekend. It was much
less than a Nikon flash, and I've never had any regrets. Belonging to
two camera clubs gives me a lot of opportunity for hands-on
examination for products in this area.


Nothing wrong with that, though I have had no regrets for buying my
Nikon SB-800.

The last time I researched a product online it was a coffee maker and
I got stuck with pooch. The damn thing got all top reviews by other
owners, but I don't like the design in actual use. I should have
found one in a store for hands-on evaluation.


Oh well. Perhaps that next step in product research was needed. With
coffee makers I have always found that simple is better. My current
favorite is the Bodum "Pour Over" Very simple and makes great coffee. I
got mine at Target.
http://www.bodum.com/us/en-us/shop/detail/11571-01/

As you well know, I delayed going the Adobe Subscription route until I
had enough input to feel comfortable. My input was more from personal
contact and conversations with other users. I don't know internet
input would have helped.


For me I was at the point that CS6 was going to be the end of the road
for Photoshop and the upgrade treadmill. I bought the CS5-CS6 upgrade
and I was going to buy the Lightroom 5 upgrade when Adobe announced the
limited subscription plan for owners of PS3-PS6. That was a bargain. I
didn't have to buy the LR update and the subscription cost is lower
than the annual cost for updates to PS and LR together. I have no
regrets for having done that.

I still explore PS alternatives for the Mac such as Pixelmator, and
Affinity Photo and I am happy to recommend either of those to Mac users
who do not want to go down the Adobe subscription road.

Having a wife means I don't get all that involved with small appliance
purchasing decisions. She wanted a Dyson, so we bought a Dyson. Most
purchases in this area are done deals before I know about them. If
she's not researching, I have no complaints because she's doing fine.


That is a very different issue, one I have not had to deal with since
December 2007.

The next online research I'll do will be about finding motel rooms for
our next trip whenever that is. That's an area where I feel personal
reviews by other customers is helpful.


Good luck with that.

I'm not real keen on saving pennies. I suppose I could do some
research on something like a CF card for my Nikon and find a better
price, but I'll stick with SanDisks. Not that I need one. Mine seem
to last forever. But, it's an example.


SanDisk and Lexar CF and SDHC are all I use, and I have yet to
experience a card failure.

*Colonial Photo is the store that failed to impress Popinjay. Not the
B&H store in Kissimmee he says he found. The real camera store.


Well we all knew that the only presence B&H had in Florida was an online one.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #70  
Old September 12th 15, 03:52 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Bill W
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Posts: 1,692
Default A question for Applefans

On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 18:43:54 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

Product research is the bit I champ at when reining in that impulse
buying mustang.


Okay, this sort of thing really needs to stop...

That sentence made my ears hurt.
 




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