If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Finally did it!
I finally got my order in for a D70 with the kit (from a reputable dealer at
a good price). I'm having all my older lenses converted to use with the new camera, and I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital photography -- my old Sony digital is giving me all kinds of problems. I just wanted to thank everyone for answering all my stupid questions, and thanks to everyone who even e-mailed me images and set me straight on where to buy. I guess this is just the beginning of my visits to this newsgroup. I used to take photos for a living, and I'm very excited about getting back into photography again. Thanks. Sheldon |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Sheldon wrote:
camera, and I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital photography That would take an H1 with a 22 Mpix back or something along those lines. -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
"Alan Browne" wrote in message ... | Sheldon wrote: | | camera, and I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital | photography | | That would take an H1 with a 22 Mpix back or something along those lines. | | | -- | -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm | -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm | -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin | -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. High-end is a relative term. Going from a Brownie to a 110 camera looks like high end to the person with the Brownie. To Alan, the D70 is high-end, as it is to a lot of people. Rick |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Rick wrote:
To Alan, the D70 is high-end, as it is to a lot of people. Nope. To Alan, the D70 is pretty basic DSLR. Cheers, Alan -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
"Alan Browne" wrote in message ... Sheldon wrote: camera, and I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital photography That would take an H1 with a 22 Mpix back or something along those lines. I disagree. I would call D70 a high-end digital camera. I would also consider my Canon 20D high end. I would consider a Canon 1Ds MkII a full pro camera. A porsche carrera turbo is a high end sports car, but it is not a professional race car. It may be just terminology, but I consider digital cameras into the following categories P&S compact - eg Canon SD300 P&S prosumer - eg Olympus C-8080 SLR consumer/high-end - Canon 300D SLR high end - Canon 20D, Nikon D70 (borderline) SLR professional - Canon 1Dx, Nikon D2X D70 and 10D are less high end than 20D because they are older and are not as fast. But 20D is a VERY fast camera and with a rich set of features to the point that I have seen pros use them. I have seen pros shoot with 10D. With anything you have to distinguish high-end from professional. If spending over $2000 on a body and lens is not high-end, then what is? |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Musty wrote:
"Alan Browne" wrote in message ... Sheldon wrote: camera, and I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital photography That would take an H1 with a 22 Mpix back or something along those lines. I disagree. I would call D70 a high-end digital camera. I would also consider my Canon 20D high end. I would consider a Canon 1Ds MkII a full pro camera. A porsche carrera turbo is a high end sports car, but it is not a professional race car. Whatever a Porche is or isn't is very immaterial. In photography, 35mm (where these 70D's and Canon 20D's evolve from) is not high end. It has its high end in cameras like the EOS-1v, F5 and Maxxum 9, but the 20D, D70 and Max 7D do not in any way measure up to the capabilities of the film 'kings'. And those film kings in 35mm are certainly not 'high end' in photography in any sense. It may be just terminology, but I consider digital cameras into the following categories P&S compact - eg Canon SD300 P&S prosumer - eg Olympus C-8080 SLR consumer/high-end - Canon 300D SLR high end - Canon 20D, Nikon D70 (borderline) SLR professional - Canon 1Dx, Nikon D2X The Hassy H1 is an SLR. 6x6 cm film or smaller 22 mpix digital. That's high end. (And there are scanning backs that go much higher). D70 and 10D are less high end than 20D because they are older and are not as fast. But 20D is a VERY fast camera and with a rich set of features to the point that I have seen pros use them. I have seen pros shoot with 10D. You'll see pros shoot with lesser cameras than that. But if they have commercial accounts for advertising, etc., they will need MF. With anything you have to distinguish high-end from professional. If spending over $2000 on a body and lens is not high-end, then what is? $2000 on a body and a lens? That's toyland where pros are concerned. Pros, or their companies, are buying $4000 - $8000 full frame DSLR's. The top of this range, the 1Ds Mk II is encroaching on MF. That is definitely high end where "35mm" ish DSLR's are concerned. The D70 is a relative toy. It depends on the profession. With the 1Ds Mk II or even the recent Nikon 12 Mpix, one has the tools one would expect to satisfy many, but not all pros. Product photographers and others cannot do their work with less than a MF camera (film or digital). The cameras that we talk about most here in this ng are the 6-8 Mpix cameras that Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Olympus and finally K-M are targetting at amateurs of all stripes and 'lower end' professionals who do not need large enlargements. Surely the number of pixels will increase over time, but so it will for 'high end' cameras. There will always be a gap, as there is in most domains. It is no different really from the fact that professionals in the pre-digital era used mainly MF and LF cameras for serious commercial work in advertising, modeling, weddings, architecture, landscape, etc. 35mm was not enough for many applications then, and it isn't any more applicable now. For sports it is highly applicable, but most pro photogs have been shooting the high end Canons and Nikons, not the consumer cameras. I don't mean to put down the consumer oriented cameras, I hope to get a Maxxum 7D soon myslef. But despite my esoteric collection of glass, it will not be any more 'high end' than my pro Maxxum 9 35mm body is with the same collection of glass. Same goes for the 70D+any collection of glass or the Canon 10D/20D and any collection of glass. Fine enough, but not 'high end'. Cheers, Alan -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
"Alan Browne" wrote in message ... Musty wrote: "Alan Browne" wrote in message ... Sheldon wrote: camera, and I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital photography That would take an H1 with a 22 Mpix back or something along those lines. I disagree. I would call D70 a high-end digital camera. I would also consider my Canon 20D high end. I would consider a Canon 1Ds MkII a full pro camera. A porsche carrera turbo is a high end sports car, but it is not a professional race car. Whatever a Porche is or isn't is very immaterial. In photography, 35mm (where these 70D's and Canon 20D's evolve from) is not high end. It has its high end in cameras like the EOS-1v, F5 and Maxxum 9, but the 20D, D70 and Max 7D do not in any way measure up to the capabilities of the film 'kings'. And those film kings in 35mm are certainly not 'high end' in photography in any sense. It may be just terminology, but I consider digital cameras into the following categories P&S compact - eg Canon SD300 P&S prosumer - eg Olympus C-8080 SLR consumer/high-end - Canon 300D SLR high end - Canon 20D, Nikon D70 (borderline) SLR professional - Canon 1Dx, Nikon D2X The Hassy H1 is an SLR. 6x6 cm film or smaller 22 mpix digital. That's high end. (And there are scanning backs that go much higher). D70 and 10D are less high end than 20D because they are older and are not as fast. But 20D is a VERY fast camera and with a rich set of features to the point that I have seen pros use them. I have seen pros shoot with 10D. You'll see pros shoot with lesser cameras than that. But if they have commercial accounts for advertising, etc., they will need MF. With anything you have to distinguish high-end from professional. If spending over $2000 on a body and lens is not high-end, then what is? $2000 on a body and a lens? That's toyland where pros are concerned. Pros, or their companies, are buying $4000 - $8000 full frame DSLR's. The top of this range, the 1Ds Mk II is encroaching on MF. That is definitely high end where "35mm" ish DSLR's are concerned. The D70 is a relative toy. It depends on the profession. With the 1Ds Mk II or even the recent Nikon 12 Mpix, one has the tools one would expect to satisfy many, but not all pros. Product photographers and others cannot do their work with less than a MF camera (film or digital). The cameras that we talk about most here in this ng are the 6-8 Mpix cameras that Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Olympus and finally K-M are targetting at amateurs of all stripes and 'lower end' professionals who do not need large enlargements. Surely the number of pixels will increase over time, but so it will for 'high end' cameras. There will always be a gap, as there is in most domains. It is no different really from the fact that professionals in the pre-digital era used mainly MF and LF cameras for serious commercial work in advertising, modeling, weddings, architecture, landscape, etc. 35mm was not enough for many applications then, and it isn't any more applicable now. For sports it is highly applicable, but most pro photogs have been shooting the high end Canons and Nikons, not the consumer cameras. I don't mean to put down the consumer oriented cameras, I hope to get a Maxxum 7D soon myslef. But despite my esoteric collection of glass, it will not be any more 'high end' than my pro Maxxum 9 35mm body is with the same collection of glass. Same goes for the 70D+any collection of glass or the Canon 10D/20D and any collection of glass. Fine enough, but not 'high end'. Cheers, Alan The thread is concerning digital SLR only - not 35mm or MF cameras, and again you keep bringing a professional context in (I completely agree with u that the 20D is below par compared to the cameras which you mention). High-end is a consumer concept, so these _are_ high end digital cameras, but not professional. And $2000+ on a consumer camera is about as high as people will spend (definitely not $8000 body - with another $20K on lenses - its just not worth it for consumers and hobbyists). I am not naive about what pros can spend on equipment. I would rather (and have) put my money into things like property and investments since my profession is an an engineer and not a photographer. I get excellent results with my 20D and 2 lenses (17-85 and 70-200 f/4L). I plan to get more L glass in the near future. So for a hobbyist like myself (and probably many others on this group) - professional equipment is just that - its professional. BTW, I plan to buy a "pro" body once they reach the $4K level - any higher and its not worth it for me. I think I will have to wait about 2 years to get a 1Ds MkII like camera for that price. I think it is just terminology. You are saying: high-end == professional I am saying 1) high-end == "top of the line" consumer (20D is top of the line consumer - in my opinion). 2) professional == a level above that and for only very few consumers |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Musty wrote:
The thread is concerning digital SLR only - not 35mm or MF cameras, and snip Learn to snip. And no, I don't agree with you. Cheers, Alan. -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
I remember a few years ago a 3-4Mp Pro was High end, now there not worth
much, the D70 or 20D makes a much better picture than the older High end Digitals. The camera does not make the Pro, its how the camera is used. "Musty" wrote in message ... "Alan Browne" wrote in message ... Musty wrote: "Alan Browne" wrote in message ... Sheldon wrote: camera, and I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital photography That would take an H1 with a 22 Mpix back or something along those lines. I disagree. I would call D70 a high-end digital camera. I would also consider my Canon 20D high end. I would consider a Canon 1Ds MkII a full pro camera. A porsche carrera turbo is a high end sports car, but it is not a professional race car. Whatever a Porche is or isn't is very immaterial. In photography, 35mm (where these 70D's and Canon 20D's evolve from) is not high end. It has its high end in cameras like the EOS-1v, F5 and Maxxum 9, but the 20D, D70 and Max 7D do not in any way measure up to the capabilities of the film 'kings'. And those film kings in 35mm are certainly not 'high end' in photography in any sense. It may be just terminology, but I consider digital cameras into the following categories P&S compact - eg Canon SD300 P&S prosumer - eg Olympus C-8080 SLR consumer/high-end - Canon 300D SLR high end - Canon 20D, Nikon D70 (borderline) SLR professional - Canon 1Dx, Nikon D2X The Hassy H1 is an SLR. 6x6 cm film or smaller 22 mpix digital. That's high end. (And there are scanning backs that go much higher). D70 and 10D are less high end than 20D because they are older and are not as fast. But 20D is a VERY fast camera and with a rich set of features to the point that I have seen pros use them. I have seen pros shoot with 10D. You'll see pros shoot with lesser cameras than that. But if they have commercial accounts for advertising, etc., they will need MF. With anything you have to distinguish high-end from professional. If spending over $2000 on a body and lens is not high-end, then what is? $2000 on a body and a lens? That's toyland where pros are concerned. Pros, or their companies, are buying $4000 - $8000 full frame DSLR's. The top of this range, the 1Ds Mk II is encroaching on MF. That is definitely high end where "35mm" ish DSLR's are concerned. The D70 is a relative toy. It depends on the profession. With the 1Ds Mk II or even the recent Nikon 12 Mpix, one has the tools one would expect to satisfy many, but not all pros. Product photographers and others cannot do their work with less than a MF camera (film or digital). The cameras that we talk about most here in this ng are the 6-8 Mpix cameras that Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Olympus and finally K-M are targetting at amateurs of all stripes and 'lower end' professionals who do not need large enlargements. Surely the number of pixels will increase over time, but so it will for 'high end' cameras. There will always be a gap, as there is in most domains. It is no different really from the fact that professionals in the pre-digital era used mainly MF and LF cameras for serious commercial work in advertising, modeling, weddings, architecture, landscape, etc. 35mm was not enough for many applications then, and it isn't any more applicable now. For sports it is highly applicable, but most pro photogs have been shooting the high end Canons and Nikons, not the consumer cameras. I don't mean to put down the consumer oriented cameras, I hope to get a Maxxum 7D soon myslef. But despite my esoteric collection of glass, it will not be any more 'high end' than my pro Maxxum 9 35mm body is with the same collection of glass. Same goes for the 70D+any collection of glass or the Canon 10D/20D and any collection of glass. Fine enough, but not 'high end'. Cheers, Alan The thread is concerning digital SLR only - not 35mm or MF cameras, and again you keep bringing a professional context in (I completely agree with u that the 20D is below par compared to the cameras which you mention). High-end is a consumer concept, so these _are_ high end digital cameras, but not professional. And $2000+ on a consumer camera is about as high as people will spend (definitely not $8000 body - with another $20K on lenses - its just not worth it for consumers and hobbyists). I am not naive about what pros can spend on equipment. I would rather (and have) put my money into things like property and investments since my profession is an an engineer and not a photographer. I get excellent results with my 20D and 2 lenses (17-85 and 70-200 f/4L). I plan to get more L glass in the near future. So for a hobbyist like myself (and probably many others on this group) - professional equipment is just that - its professional. BTW, I plan to buy a "pro" body once they reach the $4K level - any higher and its not worth it for me. I think I will have to wait about 2 years to get a 1Ds MkII like camera for that price. I think it is just terminology. You are saying: high-end == professional I am saying 1) high-end == "top of the line" consumer (20D is top of the line consumer - in my opinion). 2) professional == a level above that and for only very few consumers |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
"Alan Browne" wrote in message ... Musty wrote: The thread is concerning digital SLR only - not 35mm or MF cameras, and snip Learn to snip. And no, I don't agree with you. Cheers, Alan. Umm, lets do a context check he NG name : r.p.digital.slr-systems (dont see anything about 35mm or MF in that name). More important (the OP said): "I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital photography". Thats right "digital". So you may not agree that this thread is about digital SLR (or perhaps you are just dis-agreeing with me in general), but the context does not lie. Only _you_ have brought in talk of professional film medium format photgraphy, film "kings", et al. Anyway, I will just go on merrily in my naive bliss and snap away with my consumer grade POS 20D. Its funny, but a very good friend of mine who _is_ a pro photographer has very good things to say about the 20D and "instructed" me to not even consider going the 1D/1Ds route (tried to keep me sane). |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Acros is finally in | Collin Brendemuehl | Large Format Photography Equipment | 0 | October 11th 04 12:27 PM |
German Glass Finally Explained | Ted Azito | 35mm Photo Equipment | 2 | June 28th 04 10:12 AM |
My New Website Finally Finished | Peakoverload | Fine Art, Framing and Display | 0 | December 12th 03 01:21 PM |
My New Website Finally Finished | Peakoverload | Photographing People | 0 | December 12th 03 01:20 PM |