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Finally did it!



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 19th 05, 07:23 PM
Sheldon
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Posts: n/a
Default Finally did it!

I finally got my order in for a D70 with the kit (from a reputable dealer at
a good price). I'm having all my older lenses converted to use with the new
camera, and I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital
photography -- my old Sony digital is giving me all kinds of problems.

I just wanted to thank everyone for answering all my stupid questions, and
thanks to everyone who even e-mailed me images and set me straight on where
to buy.

I guess this is just the beginning of my visits to this newsgroup. I used
to take photos for a living, and I'm very excited about getting back into
photography again.

Thanks.

Sheldon



  #2  
Old January 19th 05, 07:27 PM
Alan Browne
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Posts: n/a
Default

Sheldon wrote:

camera, and I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital
photography


That would take an H1 with a 22 Mpix back or something along those lines.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
  #3  
Old January 19th 05, 08:34 PM
Rick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
| Sheldon wrote:
|
| camera, and I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital
| photography
|
| That would take an H1 with a 22 Mpix back or something along those lines.
|
|
| --
| -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
| -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
| -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
| -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

High-end is a relative term. Going from a Brownie to a 110 camera looks like
high end to the person with the Brownie. To Alan, the D70 is high-end, as it
is to a lot of people.

Rick


  #4  
Old January 19th 05, 08:37 PM
Alan Browne
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Posts: n/a
Default

Rick wrote:
To Alan, the D70 is high-end, as it is to a lot of people.


Nope. To Alan, the D70 is pretty basic DSLR.

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
  #5  
Old January 19th 05, 09:31 PM
Musty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Sheldon wrote:

camera, and I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital
photography


That would take an H1 with a 22 Mpix back or something along those lines.



I disagree. I would call D70 a high-end digital camera. I would also
consider my Canon 20D high end. I would consider a Canon 1Ds MkII a full pro
camera. A porsche carrera turbo is a high end sports car, but it is not a
professional race car.

It may be just terminology, but I consider digital cameras into the
following categories

P&S compact - eg Canon SD300
P&S prosumer - eg Olympus C-8080
SLR consumer/high-end - Canon 300D
SLR high end - Canon 20D, Nikon D70 (borderline)
SLR professional - Canon 1Dx, Nikon D2X

D70 and 10D are less high end than 20D because they are older and are not as
fast. But 20D is a VERY fast camera and with a rich set of features to the
point that I have seen pros use them. I have seen pros shoot with 10D.

With anything you have to distinguish high-end from professional. If
spending over $2000 on a body and lens is not high-end, then what is?


  #6  
Old January 19th 05, 09:57 PM
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Musty wrote:

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...

Sheldon wrote:


camera, and I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital
photography


That would take an H1 with a 22 Mpix back or something along those lines.




I disagree. I would call D70 a high-end digital camera. I would also
consider my Canon 20D high end. I would consider a Canon 1Ds MkII a full pro
camera. A porsche carrera turbo is a high end sports car, but it is not a
professional race car.


Whatever a Porche is or isn't is very immaterial. In photography, 35mm (where
these 70D's and Canon 20D's evolve from) is not high end. It has its high end
in cameras like the EOS-1v, F5 and Maxxum 9, but the 20D, D70 and Max 7D do not
in any way measure up to the capabilities of the film 'kings'. And those film
kings in 35mm are certainly not 'high end' in photography in any sense.


It may be just terminology, but I consider digital cameras into the
following categories

P&S compact - eg Canon SD300
P&S prosumer - eg Olympus C-8080
SLR consumer/high-end - Canon 300D
SLR high end - Canon 20D, Nikon D70 (borderline)
SLR professional - Canon 1Dx, Nikon D2X


The Hassy H1 is an SLR. 6x6 cm film or smaller 22 mpix digital. That's high
end. (And there are scanning backs that go much higher).



D70 and 10D are less high end than 20D because they are older and are not as
fast. But 20D is a VERY fast camera and with a rich set of features to the
point that I have seen pros use them. I have seen pros shoot with 10D.


You'll see pros shoot with lesser cameras than that. But if they have
commercial accounts for advertising, etc., they will need MF.


With anything you have to distinguish high-end from professional. If
spending over $2000 on a body and lens is not high-end, then what is?


$2000 on a body and a lens? That's toyland where pros are concerned. Pros, or
their companies, are buying $4000 - $8000 full frame DSLR's. The top of this
range, the 1Ds Mk II is encroaching on MF. That is definitely high end where
"35mm" ish DSLR's are concerned. The D70 is a relative toy.

It depends on the profession.

With the 1Ds Mk II or even the recent Nikon 12 Mpix, one has the tools one would
expect to satisfy many, but not all pros.

Product photographers and others cannot do their work with less than a MF camera
(film or digital). The cameras that we talk about most here in this ng are the
6-8 Mpix cameras that Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Olympus and finally K-M are
targetting at amateurs of all stripes and 'lower end' professionals who do not
need large enlargements. Surely the number of pixels will increase over time,
but so it will for 'high end' cameras. There will always be a gap, as there is
in most domains.

It is no different really from the fact that professionals in the pre-digital
era used mainly MF and LF cameras for serious commercial work in advertising,
modeling, weddings, architecture, landscape, etc. 35mm was not enough for many
applications then, and it isn't any more applicable now. For sports it is
highly applicable, but most pro photogs have been shooting the high end Canons
and Nikons, not the consumer cameras.

I don't mean to put down the consumer oriented cameras, I hope to get a Maxxum
7D soon myslef. But despite my esoteric collection of glass, it will not be any
more 'high end' than my pro Maxxum 9 35mm body is with the same collection of
glass. Same goes for the 70D+any collection of glass or the Canon 10D/20D and
any collection of glass. Fine enough, but not 'high end'.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
  #7  
Old January 19th 05, 10:26 PM
Musty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Musty wrote:

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...

Sheldon wrote:


camera, and I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital
photography

That would take an H1 with a 22 Mpix back or something along those

lines.




I disagree. I would call D70 a high-end digital camera. I would also
consider my Canon 20D high end. I would consider a Canon 1Ds MkII a full

pro
camera. A porsche carrera turbo is a high end sports car, but it is not

a
professional race car.


Whatever a Porche is or isn't is very immaterial. In photography, 35mm

(where
these 70D's and Canon 20D's evolve from) is not high end. It has its high

end
in cameras like the EOS-1v, F5 and Maxxum 9, but the 20D, D70 and Max 7D

do not
in any way measure up to the capabilities of the film 'kings'. And those

film
kings in 35mm are certainly not 'high end' in photography in any sense.


It may be just terminology, but I consider digital cameras into the
following categories

P&S compact - eg Canon SD300
P&S prosumer - eg Olympus C-8080
SLR consumer/high-end - Canon 300D
SLR high end - Canon 20D, Nikon D70 (borderline)
SLR professional - Canon 1Dx, Nikon D2X


The Hassy H1 is an SLR. 6x6 cm film or smaller 22 mpix digital. That's

high
end. (And there are scanning backs that go much higher).



D70 and 10D are less high end than 20D because they are older and are

not as
fast. But 20D is a VERY fast camera and with a rich set of features to

the
point that I have seen pros use them. I have seen pros shoot with 10D.


You'll see pros shoot with lesser cameras than that. But if they have
commercial accounts for advertising, etc., they will need MF.


With anything you have to distinguish high-end from professional. If
spending over $2000 on a body and lens is not high-end, then what is?


$2000 on a body and a lens? That's toyland where pros are concerned.

Pros, or
their companies, are buying $4000 - $8000 full frame DSLR's. The top of

this
range, the 1Ds Mk II is encroaching on MF. That is definitely high end

where
"35mm" ish DSLR's are concerned. The D70 is a relative toy.

It depends on the profession.

With the 1Ds Mk II or even the recent Nikon 12 Mpix, one has the tools one

would
expect to satisfy many, but not all pros.

Product photographers and others cannot do their work with less than a MF

camera
(film or digital). The cameras that we talk about most here in this ng

are the
6-8 Mpix cameras that Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Olympus and finally K-M are
targetting at amateurs of all stripes and 'lower end' professionals who do

not
need large enlargements. Surely the number of pixels will increase over

time,
but so it will for 'high end' cameras. There will always be a gap, as

there is
in most domains.

It is no different really from the fact that professionals in the

pre-digital
era used mainly MF and LF cameras for serious commercial work in

advertising,
modeling, weddings, architecture, landscape, etc. 35mm was not enough for

many
applications then, and it isn't any more applicable now. For sports it is
highly applicable, but most pro photogs have been shooting the high end

Canons
and Nikons, not the consumer cameras.

I don't mean to put down the consumer oriented cameras, I hope to get a

Maxxum
7D soon myslef. But despite my esoteric collection of glass, it will not

be any
more 'high end' than my pro Maxxum 9 35mm body is with the same collection

of
glass. Same goes for the 70D+any collection of glass or the Canon 10D/20D

and
any collection of glass. Fine enough, but not 'high end'.

Cheers,
Alan


The thread is concerning digital SLR only - not 35mm or MF cameras, and
again you keep bringing a professional context in (I completely agree with u
that the 20D is below par compared to the cameras which you mention).
High-end is a consumer concept, so these _are_ high end digital cameras, but
not professional. And $2000+ on a consumer camera is about as high as people
will spend (definitely not $8000 body - with another $20K on lenses - its
just not worth it for consumers and hobbyists). I am not naive about what
pros can spend on equipment. I would rather (and have) put my money into
things like property and investments since my profession is an an engineer
and not a photographer. I get excellent results with my 20D and 2 lenses
(17-85 and 70-200 f/4L). I plan to get more L glass in the near future.
So for a hobbyist like myself (and probably many others on this group) -
professional equipment is just that - its professional. BTW, I plan to buy
a "pro" body once they reach the $4K level - any higher and its not worth it
for me. I think I will have to wait about 2 years to get a 1Ds MkII like
camera for that price.

I think it is just terminology. You are saying:

high-end == professional

I am saying

1) high-end == "top of the line" consumer (20D is top of the line consumer -
in my opinion).
2) professional == a level above that and for only very few consumers





  #8  
Old January 19th 05, 10:49 PM
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Musty wrote:

The thread is concerning digital SLR only - not 35mm or MF cameras, and

snip

Learn to snip. And no, I don't agree with you.

Cheers,
Alan.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
  #9  
Old January 19th 05, 10:52 PM
Jimbo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I remember a few years ago a 3-4Mp Pro was High end, now there not worth
much, the D70 or 20D makes a much better picture than the older High end
Digitals.
The camera does not make the Pro, its how the camera is used.




"Musty" wrote in message
...

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Musty wrote:

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...

Sheldon wrote:


camera, and I'm looking forward to my adventures in high-end digital
photography

That would take an H1 with a 22 Mpix back or something along those

lines.




I disagree. I would call D70 a high-end digital camera. I would also
consider my Canon 20D high end. I would consider a Canon 1Ds MkII a

full
pro
camera. A porsche carrera turbo is a high end sports car, but it is

not
a
professional race car.


Whatever a Porche is or isn't is very immaterial. In photography, 35mm

(where
these 70D's and Canon 20D's evolve from) is not high end. It has its

high
end
in cameras like the EOS-1v, F5 and Maxxum 9, but the 20D, D70 and Max 7D

do not
in any way measure up to the capabilities of the film 'kings'. And

those
film
kings in 35mm are certainly not 'high end' in photography in any sense.


It may be just terminology, but I consider digital cameras into the
following categories

P&S compact - eg Canon SD300
P&S prosumer - eg Olympus C-8080
SLR consumer/high-end - Canon 300D
SLR high end - Canon 20D, Nikon D70 (borderline)
SLR professional - Canon 1Dx, Nikon D2X


The Hassy H1 is an SLR. 6x6 cm film or smaller 22 mpix digital. That's

high
end. (And there are scanning backs that go much higher).



D70 and 10D are less high end than 20D because they are older and are

not as
fast. But 20D is a VERY fast camera and with a rich set of features to

the
point that I have seen pros use them. I have seen pros shoot with 10D.


You'll see pros shoot with lesser cameras than that. But if they have
commercial accounts for advertising, etc., they will need MF.


With anything you have to distinguish high-end from professional. If
spending over $2000 on a body and lens is not high-end, then what is?


$2000 on a body and a lens? That's toyland where pros are concerned.

Pros, or
their companies, are buying $4000 - $8000 full frame DSLR's. The top of

this
range, the 1Ds Mk II is encroaching on MF. That is definitely high end

where
"35mm" ish DSLR's are concerned. The D70 is a relative toy.

It depends on the profession.

With the 1Ds Mk II or even the recent Nikon 12 Mpix, one has the tools

one
would
expect to satisfy many, but not all pros.

Product photographers and others cannot do their work with less than a

MF
camera
(film or digital). The cameras that we talk about most here in this ng

are the
6-8 Mpix cameras that Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Olympus and finally K-M are
targetting at amateurs of all stripes and 'lower end' professionals who

do
not
need large enlargements. Surely the number of pixels will increase over

time,
but so it will for 'high end' cameras. There will always be a gap, as

there is
in most domains.

It is no different really from the fact that professionals in the

pre-digital
era used mainly MF and LF cameras for serious commercial work in

advertising,
modeling, weddings, architecture, landscape, etc. 35mm was not enough

for
many
applications then, and it isn't any more applicable now. For sports it

is
highly applicable, but most pro photogs have been shooting the high end

Canons
and Nikons, not the consumer cameras.

I don't mean to put down the consumer oriented cameras, I hope to get a

Maxxum
7D soon myslef. But despite my esoteric collection of glass, it will

not
be any
more 'high end' than my pro Maxxum 9 35mm body is with the same

collection
of
glass. Same goes for the 70D+any collection of glass or the Canon

10D/20D
and
any collection of glass. Fine enough, but not 'high end'.

Cheers,
Alan


The thread is concerning digital SLR only - not 35mm or MF cameras, and
again you keep bringing a professional context in (I completely agree with

u
that the 20D is below par compared to the cameras which you mention).
High-end is a consumer concept, so these _are_ high end digital cameras,

but
not professional. And $2000+ on a consumer camera is about as high as

people
will spend (definitely not $8000 body - with another $20K on lenses - its
just not worth it for consumers and hobbyists). I am not naive about what
pros can spend on equipment. I would rather (and have) put my money into
things like property and investments since my profession is an an engineer
and not a photographer. I get excellent results with my 20D and 2 lenses
(17-85 and 70-200 f/4L). I plan to get more L glass in the near future.
So for a hobbyist like myself (and probably many others on this group) -
professional equipment is just that - its professional. BTW, I plan to

buy
a "pro" body once they reach the $4K level - any higher and its not worth

it
for me. I think I will have to wait about 2 years to get a 1Ds MkII like
camera for that price.

I think it is just terminology. You are saying:

high-end == professional

I am saying

1) high-end == "top of the line" consumer (20D is top of the line

consumer -
in my opinion).
2) professional == a level above that and for only very few consumers







  #10  
Old January 19th 05, 10:59 PM
Musty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
Musty wrote:

The thread is concerning digital SLR only - not 35mm or MF cameras, and

snip

Learn to snip. And no, I don't agree with you.

Cheers,
Alan.


Umm, lets do a context check he

NG name : r.p.digital.slr-systems (dont see anything about 35mm or MF in
that name).
More important (the OP said): "I'm looking forward to my adventures in
high-end digital
photography". Thats right "digital".

So you may not agree that this thread is about digital SLR (or perhaps you
are just dis-agreeing with me in general), but the context does not lie.
Only _you_ have brought in talk of professional film medium format
photgraphy, film "kings", et al.

Anyway, I will just go on merrily in my naive bliss and snap away with my
consumer grade POS 20D. Its funny, but a very good friend of mine who _is_ a
pro photographer has very good things to say about the 20D and "instructed"
me to not even consider going the 1D/1Ds route (tried to keep me sane).


 




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