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Lenses and sharpening



 
 
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  #22  
Old September 15th 14, 06:29 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
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Posts: 3,854
Default Lenses and sharpening

In article ,
nospam wrote:

In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

UnSharpMask is not reversible.

it is with a non-destructive workflow.


I'm sorry that you don't understand the meaning of that.


i absolutely do know the meaning, since it's all i use.

it's you who doesn't understand what a non-destructive workflow means
and as a result, says stupid **** like what you just did.

with a non-destructive workflow, unsharp mask (or anything else for
that matter) can be altered or removed after the fact. that's why it's
called a non-destructive workflow.


it's not on your file then. whatever... you could, of curse create an
extra layer and delate it later.
--
teleportation kills
http://tinyurl.com/androidphotography
  #23  
Old September 15th 14, 06:32 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 22,119
Default Lenses and sharpening

In article [email protected],
Savageduck wrote:

UnSharpMask is not reversible.

it is with a non-destructive workflow.


I'm sorry that you don't understand the meaning of that.


I know your feelings regarding Photoshop, but using Adobe's *Smart
Object* concept provides a different level of non-destructive workflow.
Creating a new adjustment layer and converting it to a *Smart Object*
gives one the ability to apply any filter, including USM and any of the
other sharpening tools or filters to that *Smart Object*.
If the particular adjustment results are not to one's liking, then
double clicking on that filter in the *Smart Object* layer will reopen
the filter dialog to allow changes to the filter parameters.
In the case shown below I have applied USM to a *Smart Object* and I
can return to it as often as I want to adjust the USM parameters, all
non-destructively.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_900.jpg

All adjustments made to *Smart Objects*, in Photoshop terms, are
non-destructive.


true, but i was thinking of lightroom where no additional steps are
required because everything is non-destructive.

with photoshop, the user has to take additional steps to be
non-destructive.

I fully expect you to tell me I am wrong.


of course.
  #24  
Old September 15th 14, 06:45 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 15,578
Default Lenses and sharpening

On 2014-09-15 17:29:05 +0000, android said:

In article ,
nospam wrote:

In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

UnSharpMask is not reversible.

it is with a non-destructive workflow.

I'm sorry that you don't understand the meaning of that.


i absolutely do know the meaning, since it's all i use.

it's you who doesn't understand what a non-destructive workflow means
and as a result, says stupid **** like what you just did.

with a non-destructive workflow, unsharp mask (or anything else for
that matter) can be altered or removed after the fact. that's why it's
called a non-destructive workflow.


it's not on your file then. whatever... you could, of curse create an
extra layer and delate it later.


With most photo editing software which uses adjustment layers that is
one method of non-destructive editing. The final product with
adjustment layers intact can be saved as a PSD or TIF to be reopened at
any time to adjust further, remove adjustment layers etc. Obviously
merging those layers will make those adjustments permanent.

Then Adobe has a second level of non-destructive editing with the use
of *Smart Objects*.
....and non-destructive editing in Lightroom is something else all together.

These days with my LR+PS workflow many of my images make a round trip
from LR to PS and back to LR have all the layers retained. If I need a
JPEG I use the LR export dialog.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #25  
Old September 15th 14, 06:56 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,578
Default Lenses and sharpening

On 2014-09-15 17:32:07 +0000, nospam said:

In article [email protected],
Savageduck wrote:

UnSharpMask is not reversible.

it is with a non-destructive workflow.

I'm sorry that you don't understand the meaning of that.


I know your feelings regarding Photoshop, but using Adobe's *Smart
Object* concept provides a different level of non-destructive workflow.
Creating a new adjustment layer and converting it to a *Smart Object*
gives one the ability to apply any filter, including USM and any of the
other sharpening tools or filters to that *Smart Object*.
If the particular adjustment results are not to one's liking, then
double clicking on that filter in the *Smart Object* layer will reopen
the filter dialog to allow changes to the filter parameters.
In the case shown below I have applied USM to a *Smart Object* and I
can return to it as often as I want to adjust the USM parameters, all
non-destructively.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_900.jpg

All adjustments made to *Smart Objects*, in Photoshop terms, are
non-destructive.


true, but i was thinking of lightroom where no additional steps are
required because everything is non-destructive.


These days with my LR+PS workflow many of my images make a round trip
from LR to PS and back to LR have all the layers retained. If I need a
JPEG I use the LR export dialog.

Yup! That is quite a different non-destructive process which quite a
few here have yet to grasp even though they own LR.

Since this thread relates to the application of USM and/or other
sharpening, I left LR out of the discussion. I am still unsure of what
Alfred uses for his post processing.

with photoshop, the user has to take additional steps to be
non-destructive.


Once you have developed a PS non-destructive workflow, it is easy
enough to execute.

I fully expect you to tell me I am wrong.


of course.


;-)


--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #26  
Old September 15th 14, 07:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,119
Default Lenses and sharpening

In article [email protected],
Savageduck wrote:

All adjustments made to *Smart Objects*, in Photoshop terms, are
non-destructive.


true, but i was thinking of lightroom where no additional steps are
required because everything is non-destructive.


These days with my LR+PS workflow many of my images make a round trip
from LR to PS and back to LR have all the layers retained. If I need a
JPEG I use the LR export dialog.


very few of mine need photoshop anymore.

Yup! That is quite a different non-destructive process which quite a
few here have yet to grasp even though they own LR.

Since this thread relates to the application of USM and/or other
sharpening, I left LR out of the discussion. I am still unsure of what
Alfred uses for his post processing.


lightroom does usm.

with photoshop, the user has to take additional steps to be
non-destructive.


Once you have developed a PS non-destructive workflow, it is easy
enough to execute.


it's not hard, but it is additional steps that aren't needed in
lightroom which is non-destructive by design.
  #27  
Old September 15th 14, 07:41 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,578
Default Lenses and sharpening

On 2014-09-15 18:26:01 +0000, nospam said:

In article [email protected],
Savageduck wrote:

All adjustments made to *Smart Objects*, in Photoshop terms, are
non-destructive.

true, but i was thinking of lightroom where no additional steps are
required because everything is non-destructive.


These days with my LR+PS workflow many of my images make a round trip
from LR to PS and back to LR have all the layers retained. If I need a
JPEG I use the LR export dialog.


very few of mine need photoshop anymore.

Yup! That is quite a different non-destructive process which quite a
few here have yet to grasp even though they own LR.

Since this thread relates to the application of USM and/or other
sharpening, I left LR out of the discussion. I am still unsure of what
Alfred uses for his post processing.


lightroom does usm.


…but it isn’t presented to the user as such. It appears in the detail
pane labeled “Sharpening” with somewhat different parameters to those
found in the PS USM. That those parameters (other that percentage &
radius) have different labels to those found in PS USM are probably of
little significance, but many users might well not recognize them as
the same process in different applications.

with photoshop, the user has to take additional steps to be
non-destructive.


Once you have developed a PS non-destructive workflow, it is easy
enough to execute.


it's not hard, but it is additional steps that aren't needed in
lightroom which is non-destructive by design.



--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #28  
Old September 15th 14, 07:44 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default Lenses and sharpening

nospam wrote:
In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

UnSharpMask is not reversible.

it is with a non-destructive workflow.


I'm sorry that you don't understand the meaning of that.


i absolutely do know the meaning, since it's all i use.

it's you who doesn't understand what a non-destructive workflow means


A non-destructive workflow means you can *undo* and then *redo*.

That is not a reversible function.

For example, you can add sharpening with a high pass
sharpen tool to an image, save it as a JPEG, send it to
someone else, and they can use a blur tool to reverse
the sharpen.

If the sharpening is done with UnsharpMask that cannot
be done. USM is not reversible.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #30  
Old September 15th 14, 08:59 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,119
Default Lenses and sharpening

In article , Floyd L. Davidson
wrote:

UnSharpMask is not reversible.

it is with a non-destructive workflow.

I'm sorry that you don't understand the meaning of that.


i absolutely do know the meaning, since it's all i use.

it's you who doesn't understand what a non-destructive workflow means


A non-destructive workflow means you can *undo* and then *redo*.

That is not a reversible function.


it is to the user, which is what matters.

in other words, the user sharpens today and then tomorrow or next month
or whenever, they can readjust it or remove it entirely. that means to
the user, it's reversible.

that's why a non-destructive workflow is so powerful.

For example, you can add sharpening with a high pass
sharpen tool to an image, save it as a JPEG, send it to
someone else, and they can use a blur tool to reverse
the sharpen.


not perfectly. you even said 'virtually reverses' in your description.

that's another way of saying 'there is some loss.'

In article , Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
Not the case. It is the high pass sharpen tool that is the inverse of
blur. They can use the exact same algorithm with different parameters.
Using one and then the other virtually reverses the results.



If the sharpening is done with UnsharpMask that cannot
be done. USM is not reversible.


in a destructive workflow that is true.

in a non-destructive workflow, it is not true.
 




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