How to tell a rank amateur from a seasoned one, or a pro

"SMS" wrote in message
...
On 01/07/10 12:37 AM, Ray Fischer wrote:

In other words, a "shutter lag" of zero wouldn't help in the slightest
if the camera took 800msec to focus and save the picture.

Surely you realize that "shutter lag" is often used to describe the sum of
AF lag and shutter lag. In reality it's the contrast detect focusing of
the P&S that causes the AF lag, and while it's not as bad as it was in the
past, it still is much slower than phase-detect AF, especially in
challenging situations.


I've always connsider shutter lag as shutter lag in that it's the differnce
in time between activate the shutter button (in a sense that's the picture
you wish to take) compared to the time it takes the electronics to open the
shutter and store the image in it's buffer.
Focausing has nothin gto do with shutter lag.


It's of little consequence when shooting landscapes in good light. It's of
major concern when photographing children or wild life, or when shooting
in low light.

Well in all these cases I think focus is a seperate issue, as is framing
and decision making.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
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"SMS" wrote in message
...
On 01/07/10 12:37 AM, Ray Fischer wrote:

In other words, a "shutter lag" of zero wouldn't help in the slightest
if the camera took 800msec to focus and save the picture.

Surely you realize that "shutter lag" is often used to describe the sum
of AF lag and shutter lag. In reality it's the contrast detect focusing
of the P&S that causes the AF lag, and while it's not as bad as it was in
the past, it still is much slower than phase-detect AF, especially in
challenging situations.


I've always connsider shutter lag as shutter lag in that it's the
differnce in time between activate the shutter button (in a sense that's
the picture you wish to take) compared to the time it takes the
electronics to open the shutter and store the image in it's buffer.
Focausing has nothin gto do with shutter lag.




Using your perception, focusing time is included in the parameters you set.

--
Peter

"Peter" wrote in message
...
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
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"SMS" wrote in message
...
On 01/07/10 12:37 AM, Ray Fischer wrote:

In other words, a "shutter lag" of zero wouldn't help in the slightest
if the camera took 800msec to focus and save the picture.

Surely you realize that "shutter lag" is often used to describe the sum
of AF lag and shutter lag. In reality it's the contrast detect focusing
of the P&S that causes the AF lag, and while it's not as bad as it was
in the past, it still is much slower than phase-detect AF, especially in
challenging situations.


I've always connsider shutter lag as shutter lag in that it's the
differnce in time between activate the shutter button (in a sense that's
the picture you wish to take) compared to the time it takes the
electronics to open the shutter and store the image in it's buffer.
Focausing has nothin gto do with shutter lag.




Using your perception, focusing time is included in the parameters you
set.

Why ?

I like to focus before I intend to capture the image.
If I'm going to focus say on the 100M runner in 2012 Olympics
I don;t class that as a 2 year shutter lag.
My shutter lag will be the amount of time it takes for me to begin pressing
the shutter to the time it takes for the image to be captured.
Some might refer to it as a propagation delay which is what I do in
electronics.
'Electricity' travels fast, but at a finite speed.

If it takes 2 years for the event to happen that's not the cameras fault.
Same with focusing, which is focus lag.
I remember the days of film changing lags too, which was removed by being
able to have a 250 exp camera 'back'.
Friends remember processing lags, as being a wedding photographer
they used to have to get the film processed and printed within a few hours.
This meant developing the film while driving to the darkroom in the car,
washing it in meths too, although not while driving.

I'm wondering when the first camera with pre-shutter trigger will be
released
as standard like auto focus is today.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
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"Peter" wrote in message
...
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
news:i0knkt$549$1@qmul...

"SMS" wrote in message
...
On 01/07/10 12:37 AM, Ray Fischer wrote:

In other words, a "shutter lag" of zero wouldn't help in the slightest
if the camera took 800msec to focus and save the picture.

Surely you realize that "shutter lag" is often used to describe the sum
of AF lag and shutter lag. In reality it's the contrast detect focusing
of the P&S that causes the AF lag, and while it's not as bad as it was
in the past, it still is much slower than phase-detect AF, especially
in challenging situations.


I've always connsider shutter lag as shutter lag in that it's the
differnce in time between activate the shutter button (in a sense that's
the picture you wish to take) compared to the time it takes the
electronics to open the shutter and store the image in it's buffer.
Focausing has nothin gto do with shutter lag.




Using your perception, focusing time is included in the parameters you
set.

Why ?

I like to focus before I intend to capture the image.
If I'm going to focus say on the 100M runner in 2012 Olympics
I don;t class that as a 2 year shutter lag.
My shutter lag will be the amount of time it takes for me to begin
pressing the shutter to the time it takes for the image to be captured.
Some might refer to it as a propagation delay which is what I do in
electronics.
'Electricity' travels fast, but at a finite speed.

If it takes 2 years for the event to happen that's not the cameras fault.
Same with focusing, which is focus lag.
I remember the days of film changing lags too, which was removed by being
able to have a 250 exp camera 'back'.
Friends remember processing lags, as being a wedding photographer
they used to have to get the film processed and printed within a few
hours.
This meant developing the film while driving to the darkroom in the car,
washing it in meths too, although not while driving.

I'm wondering when the first camera with pre-shutter trigger will be
released
as standard like auto focus is today.


And this has what to do with your definition?
I am not trying to convince you. That is a waste of time. I just don't want
to see a newbie to be mislead.


--
Peter

"John Navas" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:27:48 -0400, in
, "Peter"
wrote:

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
news:i0knkt$549$1@qmul...

"SMS" wrote in message
...
On 01/07/10 12:37 AM, Ray Fischer wrote:

In other words, a "shutter lag" of zero wouldn't help in the slightest
if the camera took 800msec to focus and save the picture.

Surely you realize that "shutter lag" is often used to describe the sum
of AF lag and shutter lag. In reality it's the contrast detect focusing
of the P&S that causes the AF lag, and while it's not as bad as it was
in
the past, it still is much slower than phase-detect AF, especially in
challenging situations.

I've always connsider shutter lag as shutter lag in that it's the
differnce in time between activate the shutter button (in a sense that's
the picture you wish to take) compared to the time it takes the
electronics to open the shutter and store the image in it's buffer.
Focausing has nothin gto do with shutter lag.

Using your perception, focusing time is included in the parameters you
set.

Not necessarily -- the lens may well be pre-focused.



Yup! Very easy to do in wildlife photography. Just pick your spot and let
the wildlife come to you.


--
Peter

On 02/07/10 8:22 AM, Peter wrote:

Yup! Very easy to do in wildlife photography. Just pick your spot and
let the wildlife come to you.

LOL, just carry some bait and put it exactly where you want the animal
to be, then pre-focus, and wait. While this would be illegal if you were
shooting the animal with a gun, it'd be okay just for photographing the
animal (unless you're in a place where feeding wildlife is forbidden).
It's the perfect workaround to slow contrast-detect auto-focus.

"SMS" wrote in message
...
On 02/07/10 8:22 AM, Peter wrote:

Yup! Very easy to do in wildlife photography. Just pick your spot and
let the wildlife come to you.

LOL, just carry some bait and put it exactly where you want the animal to
be, then pre-focus, and wait. While this would be illegal if you were
shooting the animal with a gun, it'd be okay just for photographing the
animal (unless you're in a place where feeding wildlife is forbidden).
It's the perfect workaround to slow contrast-detect auto-focus.



You don't need bait. Just smear some estrus scent from the female animal of
your choice. The male will smell it and become so horny that he will stand
and pose. It's and old animal training secret that works even better if you
are lucky enough to find a male who hasn't been laid in months.

--
Peter

On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 13:44:38 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:

"SMS" wrote in message
.. .
On 02/07/10 8:22 AM, Peter wrote:

Yup! Very easy to do in wildlife photography. Just pick your spot and
let the wildlife come to you.

LOL, just carry some bait and put it exactly where you want the animal to
be, then pre-focus, and wait. While this would be illegal if you were
shooting the animal with a gun, it'd be okay just for photographing the
animal (unless you're in a place where feeding wildlife is forbidden).
It's the perfect workaround to slow contrast-detect auto-focus.



You don't need bait. Just smear some estrus scent from the female animal of
your choice. The male will smell it and become so horny that he will stand
and pose. It's and old animal training secret that works even better if you
are lucky enough to find a male who hasn't been laid in months.

If you can get close enough to the female to obtain her estrus scent,
why do you need to wait for a male? Just tell the female that her
butt doesn't look big in that fur and snap away.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:27:48 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
news:i0knkt$549$1@qmul...

"SMS" wrote in message
...
On 01/07/10 12:37 AM, Ray Fischer wrote:

In other words, a "shutter lag" of zero wouldn't help in the slightest
if the camera took 800msec to focus and save the picture.

Surely you realize that "shutter lag" is often used to describe the sum
of AF lag and shutter lag. In reality it's the contrast detect focusing
of the P&S that causes the AF lag, and while it's not as bad as it was in
the past, it still is much slower than phase-detect AF, especially in
challenging situations.


I've always connsider shutter lag as shutter lag in that it's the
differnce in time between activate the shutter button (in a sense that's
the picture you wish to take) compared to the time it takes the
electronics to open the shutter and store the image in it's buffer.
Focausing has nothin gto do with shutter lag.




Using your perception, focusing time is included in the parameters you set.

Only in the minds of beginner snapshooters. Thanks for revealing that about
yourself.

On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 11:22:17 -0400, "Peter"
wrote:

"John Navas" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:27:48 -0400, in
, "Peter"
wrote:

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
news:i0knkt$549$1@qmul...

"SMS" wrote in message
...
On 01/07/10 12:37 AM, Ray Fischer wrote:

In other words, a "shutter lag" of zero wouldn't help in the slightest
if the camera took 800msec to focus and save the picture.

Surely you realize that "shutter lag" is often used to describe the sum
of AF lag and shutter lag. In reality it's the contrast detect focusing
of the P&S that causes the AF lag, and while it's not as bad as it was
in
the past, it still is much slower than phase-detect AF, especially in
challenging situations.

I've always connsider shutter lag as shutter lag in that it's the
differnce in time between activate the shutter button (in a sense that's
the picture you wish to take) compared to the time it takes the
electronics to open the shutter and store the image in it's buffer.
Focausing has nothin gto do with shutter lag.

Using your perception, focusing time is included in the parameters you
set.

Not necessarily -- the lens may well be pre-focused.



Yup! Very easy to do in wildlife photography. Just pick your spot and let
the wildlife come to you.

No, it's very easy to do in ALL situations. Half-press on something near
your subject or near to where you know it's going to be. (The art of
photography is knowing your subject even more than your camera.) Shutter
response from half-press to full is near instantaneous at the moment you
need to capture the shot. While you're learning this most basic of
digital-camera skills, go learn about "hyperfocal" too. No wonder that any
of you who post photos never have them properly focused.

I swear, don't any of you know how to properly use auto-focusing modes on
any cameras? I'd hate to see what would happen with manual-only cameras in
your hands. This is why you fools so easily reveal to everyone what base
beginners (or never used any camera) that most of you are. And then you
wonder how I know. With things this simple and basic to using digital
cameras, and you don't even know this much. How much more obvious can you
get.