Shooting Sunrises

"Matt Clara" wrote in message .. .
"Jim" wrote in message
m...
I have Cokin P mount and several GND's. The Cokin filters are junk. I
bought a couple of them first. The problem is that they are nt really
netural and make the clouds look very dark. B+W and Singh Ray are the
best but very expensive. I use HiTech as they are much more
affordable.

So, is Hi Tech better than Cokin?


Yes, for me.

"Matt Clara" wrote in message .. .
"Jim" wrote in message
m...
I have Cokin P mount and several GND's. The Cokin filters are junk. I
bought a couple of them first. The problem is that they are nt really
netural and make the clouds look very dark. B+W and Singh Ray are the
best but very expensive. I use HiTech as they are much more
affordable.

So, is Hi Tech better than Cokin?


Yes, for me.

Hi Peter,

Bandicoot wrote:
Not Jim, but I'll chip in anyway: ...

Thanks for a nice explanation as how to choose the "modification" to the
light to get it on the film ;-) I often end up not understanding the
scene when I want to take my picture and therefore I don't always get
the picture I think I would have liked. Your explanation helped a bit in
the right direction, but I just have a single qustion: If you shoot a
"borrowing" sunset at a westcoast beach. No other elements than the
beach, wather, sky and the sun. Would you meeter the sky (without the
sun) and the beach and place these, with filters, one stop apart?

Martin

I would like to thank everyone that replied to my inquiries. You folks have
been helpful as usual. I spent all of my time lurking until now. And as
always the group has come through. I have several things to try and some new
ideas to play with. Thanks gang.

------
David Edwards
nitehawk01 at verizon dot net


"Jim" wrote in message
...
"Matt Clara" wrote in message
.. .
"Jim" wrote in message
m...
I have Cokin P mount and several GND's. The Cokin filters are junk. I
bought a couple of them first. The problem is that they are nt really
netural and make the clouds look very dark. B+W and Singh Ray are the
best but very expensive. I use HiTech as they are much more
affordable.

So, is Hi Tech better than Cokin?


Yes, for me.

I would like to thank everyone that replied to my inquiries. You folks have
been helpful as usual. I spent all of my time lurking until now. And as
always the group has come through. I have several things to try and some new
ideas to play with. Thanks gang.

------
David Edwards
nitehawk01 at verizon dot net


"Jim" wrote in message
...
"Matt Clara" wrote in message
.. .
"Jim" wrote in message
m...
I have Cokin P mount and several GND's. The Cokin filters are junk. I
bought a couple of them first. The problem is that they are nt really
netural and make the clouds look very dark. B+W and Singh Ray are the
best but very expensive. I use HiTech as they are much more
affordable.

So, is Hi Tech better than Cokin?


Yes, for me.

"Martin Djernæs" wrote in message
...
Hi Peter,

Bandicoot wrote:
Not Jim, but I'll chip in anyway: ...

Thanks for a nice explanation as how to choose the "modification" to the
light to get it on the film ;-) I often end up not understanding the
scene when I want to take my picture and therefore I don't always get
the picture I think I would have liked. Your explanation helped a bit in
the right direction, but I just have a single qustion: If you shoot a
"borrowing" sunset at a westcoast beach. No other elements than the
beach, wather, sky and the sun. Would you meeter the sky (without the
sun) and the beach and place these, with filters, one stop apart?

Martin

Not sure what you mean by "borrowing", but if I understand your question,
then 'probably yes'. If you really want a saturated sky you will want to
expose it so that (after filtration) the 'key' sky colour records as a
mid-tone on the film. This means that your 'actual' mid-tones on the
beack/water you are probably going to place (after filtration) a half to one
stop down, which will make them record a bit dark - which will tend to look
more natural for this time of day. That may mean losing some foreground
shadow detail, but again, that is the way to a nice dramatic shot.

Beware of letting the sun-disk, if it is in the shot, go too far above the
film's ability to record: this will look terrible on slide (and even worse
with digital.) This may mean composing so the sun is out of shot, or else
giving the sky a bit less exposure so you just hold the sun - on slide film
this will intensify the saturation further, which may lead to an unnatural,
but not necessarily unattractive, result.

There is no 'one true exposure' after all, just the one that allows us to
turn the scene in front of us into the scene we have imagined in our heads
as the desired end picture. This means that the same scene can produce more
than one interesting shot according to how you expose, and that you have a
lot of control over the final image: this is espcially true at sunrise and
sunset when the viewer doesn't know how intense the colours 'should' be, and
so a much wider range of interpretations will all produce end results that
look 'believable'.

For example, see the picture at the bottom of the page at:

http://www.bard-hill.co.uk/usa-2003/monumentvalley.html

and the (smaller) middle picture at:

http://www.bard-hill.co.uk/usa-2003/...ntvalley2.html

These are the same sunrise, taken a few moments apart, but with very
different exposures to produce two totaly different interpretations of the
scene. The second has the drama, but personally I like the subtlety of the
first one better. (Lousy scan, must re-do it, as the slide shows more
foreground detail than comes through on screen.)

Hope that makes sense.


Peter

"Martin Djernæs" wrote in message
...
Hi Peter,

Bandicoot wrote:
Not Jim, but I'll chip in anyway: ...

Thanks for a nice explanation as how to choose the "modification" to the
light to get it on the film ;-) I often end up not understanding the
scene when I want to take my picture and therefore I don't always get
the picture I think I would have liked. Your explanation helped a bit in
the right direction, but I just have a single qustion: If you shoot a
"borrowing" sunset at a westcoast beach. No other elements than the
beach, wather, sky and the sun. Would you meeter the sky (without the
sun) and the beach and place these, with filters, one stop apart?

Martin

Not sure what you mean by "borrowing", but if I understand your question,
then 'probably yes'. If you really want a saturated sky you will want to
expose it so that (after filtration) the 'key' sky colour records as a
mid-tone on the film. This means that your 'actual' mid-tones on the
beack/water you are probably going to place (after filtration) a half to one
stop down, which will make them record a bit dark - which will tend to look
more natural for this time of day. That may mean losing some foreground
shadow detail, but again, that is the way to a nice dramatic shot.

Beware of letting the sun-disk, if it is in the shot, go too far above the
film's ability to record: this will look terrible on slide (and even worse
with digital.) This may mean composing so the sun is out of shot, or else
giving the sky a bit less exposure so you just hold the sun - on slide film
this will intensify the saturation further, which may lead to an unnatural,
but not necessarily unattractive, result.

There is no 'one true exposure' after all, just the one that allows us to
turn the scene in front of us into the scene we have imagined in our heads
as the desired end picture. This means that the same scene can produce more
than one interesting shot according to how you expose, and that you have a
lot of control over the final image: this is espcially true at sunrise and
sunset when the viewer doesn't know how intense the colours 'should' be, and
so a much wider range of interpretations will all produce end results that
look 'believable'.

For example, see the picture at the bottom of the page at:

http://www.bard-hill.co.uk/usa-2003/monumentvalley.html

and the (smaller) middle picture at:

http://www.bard-hill.co.uk/usa-2003/...ntvalley2.html

These are the same sunrise, taken a few moments apart, but with very
different exposures to produce two totaly different interpretations of the
scene. The second has the drama, but personally I like the subtlety of the
first one better. (Lousy scan, must re-do it, as the slide shows more
foreground detail than comes through on screen.)

Hope that makes sense.


Peter

Hi Peter,

Bandicoot wrote:
Not sure what you mean by "borrowing", but if I understand your question,

I don't know what I had been smoking that day, but I wanted to say "boring".

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks a lot for the extra information (and watch for my submission for
the next SI).

Martin