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Upgrading to a DSLR question.



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 20th 05, 11:54 PM
Albert Nurick
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Robert wrote:

I am upgrading from an Oly C4040. and I am trying to decide between
the Evolt, EOS 300D, EOS 350D, and the EOS 20D. Mainly between the
Evolt and the EOS 350D. I know the Oly has the CCD and the Canon has
the CMOS. Back When I bought the C4040 I read that the CCD was the
way to go. I am not sure now. Any advice and comments between the
EOS 350D and the Evolt would be greatly appreciated.


CMOS got its start as a cheap sensor technology not used in even decent
consumer digicams; it was typically found in webcams. Canon's
technology changed all that; it's arguably the best sensor technology
available today, especially in terms of sensitivity.

As others have said, if the money's not an issue, get the 20D. Superb
camera. If money is tighter, I'd lean towards the 350D, and I'd also
check out the Nikon D70 and D70s.

--
Albert Nurick | Nurick + Associates - Web Design
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  #12  
Old May 21st 05, 12:59 AM
Stacey
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Robert wrote:

Any advice and comments between the EOS 350D and the Evolt would
be greatly appreciated.



My advice is to go somewhere that will let you shoot a couple of shots with
both and have a couple of prints made on the spot (or take them home,
you'll need 2 CF cards for that.) . I took my own CF cards to a local pro
shop, shot with a 10D-20D, then did the same with the E1-E300.

I then looked at the features both had, if they had good lenses avalible
that would do what I needed and then tried to look at issues like which
focus screen worked well manually focusing the lens for macro work, do I
like the view I see looking through the finder, how I like the
feel/handling of the camera and made my choice based on my own personal
preferences rather than reading what someone else likes.

There are also issues like which has a better kit lens (lenses?) if you're
going to be stuck with that for a while, which has better high ISO
performance if you need that, if you want to deal with cleaning the sensor
(if you're not going to be changing lenses much that's not an issue at
all), if you are going to be doing post processing (don't mind using noise
reduction software) or need/want clean out of camera jpegs, will you be
shooting RAW or Jpeg, do you need a spot meter or not, do you have lenses
from an old system you want to use etc. These are choices -you- have to
decide.

Every camera has it's strong and weak points, you have to decide which ones
are a problem and which aren't. If I was shooting nightclubs using avalible
light instead of landscapes, that would have changed which camera I bought.

In the end, one camera had a look to the 8X10 prints I made that =I=
prefered and that was what made my choice easy.. Someone else might have
liked the other better, that's why this is so subjective. IMHO it is the
end results in print that matter most to me and what looks good to me. I'm
sure you'll get mostly "buy what I did" from your question, I'm not going
to do that mainly because you haven't said enough about what you'll use
this camera for to even make a recomendation. Some people believe their
camera choice is "The best" for anyone, I don't agree.

--

Stacey
  #13  
Old May 21st 05, 06:17 AM
Future Assassin
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Well for the Evolt will have the best kit lenses by far and you cant
beat the value for money with the two lens kit. The only draw back would
be the price of the better Zuiko lenses. Well you get what you pay for.

If you can afford the 20D then why not get the best you can afford.
Problem is if you're on a budget you might get stuck with a nice camera
but only afford crappy lower end Canon lens which now wont show off the
20D capabilites.

Yah buying digital cameras sucks but you need to decided what kidn fo
photography you are going to be doing and then pick teh camera that is
the best for you're style of shooting.

A few months back I wanted to upgrade from my Canon D30 so I went with
the Olympus E1 over the 20D. What won it for me was not the pixel count
but how comfortable the camera felt and it offered options that no other
camera had at its price range. The most important was the E1 being
moisture/dust proof when used with the higher end Zuiko lenses and
having a body made of magnesium.

Anyways make sure you at least hold each camera and take some shots
before you decide.

Arek
http://www.evolver.ca


Robert wrote:
I am upgrading from an Oly C4040. and I am trying to decide between the
Evolt, EOS 300D, EOS 350D, and the EOS 20D. Mainly between the Evolt and the
EOS 350D. I know the Oly has the CCD and the Canon has the CMOS. Back When I
bought the C4040 I read that the CCD was the way to go. I am not sure now.
Any advice and comments between the EOS 350D and the Evolt would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks
Robert


  #14  
Old May 21st 05, 09:35 AM
Justin Thyme
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"Robert" wrote in message
...
I am upgrading from an Oly C4040. and I am trying to decide between the
Evolt, EOS 300D, EOS 350D, and the EOS 20D. Mainly between the Evolt and
the
EOS 350D. I know the Oly has the CCD and the Canon has the CMOS. Back When
I
bought the C4040 I read that the CCD was the way to go. I am not sure now.
Any advice and comments between the EOS 350D and the Evolt would be
greatly
appreciated.

The 20D is not in the same category as the 300D or 350D or the E-300.
Obviously comparing just these models the 20D is the much better camera. But
it is also more expensive, and if that is an issue then the equation becomes
a little blurred. The standard Canon kit lenses are truly awful, so for the
same money as a 20D with it's kit lens, you could get a 300D or 350D with a
half decent lens (From what I've seen, even the much maligned sigma lenses
perform better than Canon's cheap lenses). Using a 20D (or even the 300 or
350) with the kit lens is like using standard petrol and tyres with a
Ferrari.
I find the E-300 a bit of a quandary - it's kit lens is many orders of
magnitude better than Canon kit lenses, it's build quality leaves the
similar priced Canon's feeling like bits of plastic junk, but it is let down
by a very noisy sensor and I found some of it's functions such as "hold the
button down" exposure lock, and the lack of mirror lock up to be quite
annoying. If you mainly shoot in daylight, and want to use it as an advanced
P&S it is a great little camera - if you want to use it in low light
situations or in tricky shooting situations it is a bit limited. The sensor
cleaning function is fantastic however, and could tip the scales well away
from any other models in this league.
Why limit yourself to the models you listed? If you like the Olympus cameras
and are looking at something in the same league as the 20D, the E-1 ships
with an extremely good kit lens, and picture quality and camera features are
miles ahead of the E-300 (despite the lower number of pixels). I'd prefer 5
million excellent pixels over 8 million average pixels any day. The E1's
build quality is 2nd to none, it is very rugged, can handle a bit of rain or
snow, and won't need to be sent for sensor cleaning every couple of months.
If you are looking at something in a similar price range to the
E300/300D/350D, I think it's hard to go past the Pentax *istDS. Build
quality and feel is miles ahead of the Canons - again makes the Canons feel
like plastic pieces of junk. Pentax lenses are excellent, or alternatively
(here in Australia at least) it is often bundled with Sigma lenses which are
not great but significantly better than the cheap Canon offerings. The
camera is compatible with the zillions of K-mount lenses around, plus you
can use the old screw-mount lenses with adapters. This gives you access to a
huge variety of lenses, new & used, at all price/quality levels including
some of the finest lenses that have ever been made.
Another alternative is the highly rated Nikon D70 - it is an excellent
camera, and the 18-70 DX lens is excellent. It is a bit higher priced than
the E300/300D/350D/istDS, but quite a bit lower than the 20D. Personally I
think they are a little on the large and heavy side, but they do feel solid.

Thanks
Robert




  #15  
Old May 21st 05, 10:05 AM
Aza
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"Justin Thyme" wrote in message
...

"Robert" wrote in message


The standard Canon kit lenses are truly awful,


They look and feel awful, admittedly, but the image quality of the 18-55mm
is surprisingly good. As good as the kit lens shipped with the E300. I've
took quite a few shots with both, and the Canon seemed equal - although, it
might well have been the E300's in-camera processing that was limiting the
lens.

I find the E-300 a bit of a quandary - it's kit lens is many orders of
magnitude better than Canon kit lenses, it's build quality leaves the
similar priced Canon's feeling like bits of plastic junk


Not really - the E300 is every bit as plastic as the 350D - and the card
door on the E300 is a joke.


but it is let down
by a very noisy sensor and I found some of it's functions such as "hold
the button down" exposure lock, and the lack of mirror lock up to be quite
annoying.



I think that mirror lock-up has been added via firmware upgrade


If you mainly shoot in daylight, and want to use it as an advanced
P&S it is a great little camera


Agreed - it is best regarded as a good P&S


Why limit yourself to the models you listed? If you like the Olympus
cameras and are looking at something in the same league as the 20D, the
E-1 ships with an extremely good kit lens, and picture quality and camera
features are miles ahead of the E-300 (despite the lower number of
pixels)


True - but, once again, the E1 is extremely noisy above 400 ISO (even above
200, sometimes)

I think that consumers are far less tolerant of noise than they use to be -
thanks largely to Canon, who have shown what is possible in 'cheap' end of
the market.


E300/300D/350D, I think it's hard to go past the Pentax *istDS. Build
quality and feel is miles ahead of the Canons


Why? - same plastic body, same plastic mirror mechanism.



Another alternative is the highly rated Nikon D70 - it is an excellent
camera, and the 18-70 DX lens is excellent. It is a bit higher priced than
the E300/300D/350D/istDS, but quite a bit lower than the 20D. Personally I
think they are a little on the large and heavy side, but they do feel
solid.



The D70 is noisier than the Pentax - no question. Also, the feeling of
solidity comes entirely from the kit lens - take the lens off the body and
you are left with a very lightweight, cheap feeling, plastic shell.


  #16  
Old May 21st 05, 11:48 AM
Robert R Kircher, Jr.
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"Aza" wrote in message ...

"Justin Thyme" wrote in message
...

"Robert" wrote in message


The standard Canon kit lenses are truly awful,


They look and feel awful, admittedly, but the image quality of the 18-55mm
is surprisingly good.


I keep reading this and I keep trying the 18-55 that came with my 300D and I
keep putting it back in my bag swearing that I'll never use it again. It
just plain sucks!!!! It's either out of focus or very soft. With that
said I understand that there are two(?) versions of this lens so I may just
have the cheaper crappy version, but I rarely use the lens and I'll be buy a
good wide angle as soon as budget allows.

--

Rob


  #17  
Old May 21st 05, 12:59 PM
Aza
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"Robert R Kircher, Jr." wrote in message
...
"Aza" wrote in message
...

"Justin Thyme" wrote in message
...

"Robert" wrote in message


The standard Canon kit lenses are truly awful,


They look and feel awful, admittedly, but the image quality of the
18-55mm is surprisingly good.


I keep reading this and I keep trying the 18-55 that came with my 300D and
I keep putting it back in my bag swearing that I'll never use it again.
It just plain sucks!!!! It's either out of focus or very soft. With
that said I understand that there are two(?) versions of this lens so I
may just have the cheaper crappy version, but I rarely use the lens and
I'll be buy a good wide angle as soon as budget allows.




The only one I tried was the one bundled with the 350D. It is 'slightly'
different, but is supposed to optically identical to the 18-55 that came
with the 300D

I didn't buy the camera in the end (for other reasons) but I've looked
again at shots taken with the 350D lens and they're really quite good -
noticeably more detailed than the Nikon D70 with the 18-70mm kit lenses, for
example. Tiny writing on cans & bottles was far more legible with the Canon
lens - whereas the Nikon 18-70 lost a lot of the individual lettering.

I suppose that samples can vary. It certainly 'felt' a cheap 'and nasty
lens, though. In the UK it seems to add about £50 to the cost of the 350D
body - which is probably worth the money.


  #18  
Old May 21st 05, 01:05 PM
Jim Waggener
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Another alternative is the highly rated Nikon D70 - it is an excellent
camera, and the 18-70 DX lens is excellent. It is a bit higher priced than
the E300/300D/350D/istDS, but quite a bit lower than the 20D. Personally I
think they are a little on the large and heavy side, but they do feel
solid.

Thanks
Robert


To start with you could get the 50mm 1.8 lens. Superb quality, very sharp,
and cheap.
This goes for Nikon's offering as well. A great lens to start with.



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  #19  
Old May 21st 05, 01:48 PM
Justin Thyme
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"Jim Waggener" wrote in message
...
Another alternative is the highly rated Nikon D70 - it is an excellent
camera, and the 18-70 DX lens is excellent. It is a bit higher priced
than the E300/300D/350D/istDS, but quite a bit lower than the 20D.
Personally I think they are a little on the large and heavy side, but
they do feel solid.

Thanks
Robert


To start with you could get the 50mm 1.8 lens. Superb quality, very sharp,
and cheap.
This goes for Nikon's offering as well. A great lens to start with.

Or with the pentax he could get a 50/1.4 - well reknowned as one of the best
lenses ever made. On a DSLR it becomes equivalent to a 75mm, which is a
great length for portraits.



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  #20  
Old May 21st 05, 02:23 PM
Jim Waggener
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To start with you could get the 50mm 1.8 lens. Superb quality, very
sharp, and cheap.
This goes for Nikon's offering as well. A great lens to start with.

Or with the pentax he could get a 50/1.4 - well reknowned as one of the
best lenses ever made. On a DSLR it becomes equivalent to a 75mm, which is
a great length for portraits.


oops, yer right about the Pentax, forgot that one.



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