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#1
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High ISO noise CCD's vs CMOS
Ok, I'm in the market for my first DSLR (upgrade from 35 mm SLR and
Nikon 5700). I've been looking at reviews on the Sony A100, Nikon D80/D200 and Canon 30D. These are both 1600 ISO (see reviews for more detailed information about conditions etc). http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_...s/IMG_8337.JPG http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_...s/DSC_3490.JPG What a HUGE difference !!! I see so many people say only if you shoot high ISO is it a concern. Unless your shooting with lights in a studio can't any one use high ISO at times? If you can get 2 (or so) stops lower on every lens and get the same picture, why not take it? You'll pay a small fortune for 2 stops on a lens. Are there other compromises in going higher ISO (even in the low range) besides noise. Do you lose color accuracy etc. I really favor Nikon for feel and operation. But this ISO noise has me leaning towards canon CMOS. I also see numerous comments that Canon IS is better than Nikon VR. So that to me is worth probably another stop. So the canon seems to have like a 3 stop advantage over Nikon. I have no investment in lens (my 35mm was a Pentax and I'd never use those boat anchor manual focus lens again). |
#2
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High ISO noise CCD's vs CMOS
mswlogo wrote:
Ok, I'm in the market for my first DSLR (upgrade from 35 mm SLR and Nikon 5700). I've been looking at reviews on the Sony A100, Nikon D80/D200 and Canon 30D. These are both 1600 ISO (see reviews for more detailed information about conditions etc). http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_...s/IMG_8337.JPG http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_...s/DSC_3490.JPG What a HUGE difference !!! I see so many people say only if you shoot high ISO is it a concern. Unless your shooting with lights in a studio can't any one use high ISO at times? If you can get 2 (or so) stops lower on every lens and get the same picture, why not take it? You'll pay a small fortune for 2 stops on a lens. Are there other compromises in going higher ISO (even in the low range) besides noise. Do you lose color accuracy etc. I really favor Nikon for feel and operation. But this ISO noise has me leaning towards canon CMOS. I also see numerous comments that Canon IS is better than Nikon VR. So that to me is worth probably another stop. So the canon seems to have like a 3 stop advantage over Nikon. I have no investment in lens (my 35mm was a Pentax and I'd never use those boat anchor manual focus lens again). There is little dispute that Canon's CMOS produces the cleanest ISO images. I wouldn't dispute, however, that the D200 has a build that I wish Canon would emulate. -- Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by MarkČ at: www.pbase.com/markuson |
#3
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High ISO noise CCD's vs CMOS
"mswlogo" wrote in message oups.com... So the canon seems to have like a 3 stop advantage over Nikon. Problem solved - buy Canon. |
#4
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High ISO noise CCD's vs CMOS
mswlogo wrote:
Ok, I'm in the market for my first DSLR (upgrade from 35 mm SLR and Nikon 5700). I've been looking at reviews on the Sony A100, Nikon D80/D200 and Canon 30D. These are both 1600 ISO (see reviews for more detailed information about conditions etc). http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_...s/IMG_8337.JPG http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_...s/DSC_3490.JPG What a HUGE difference !!! I see so many people say only if you shoot high ISO is it a concern. Unless your shooting with lights in a studio can't any one use high ISO at times? If you can get 2 (or so) stops lower on every lens and get the same picture, why not take it? You'll pay a small fortune for 2 stops on a lens. Are there other compromises in going higher ISO (even in the low range) besides noise. Do you lose color accuracy etc. I really favor Nikon for feel and operation. But this ISO noise has me leaning towards canon CMOS. I also see numerous comments that Canon IS is better than Nikon VR. So that to me is worth probably another stop. So the canon seems to have like a 3 stop advantage over Nikon. I have no investment in lens (my 35mm was a Pentax and I'd never use those boat anchor manual focus lens again). You'll get used to the feel of the 30D; you'll never be happy with the crap images from the Nikon. No contest. Canon. Colin D. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#5
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High ISO noise CCD's vs CMOS
mswlogo wrote: Ok, I'm in the market for my first DSLR (upgrade from 35 mm SLR and Nikon 5700). I've been looking at reviews on the Sony A100, Nikon D80/D200 and Canon 30D. These are both 1600 ISO (see reviews for more detailed information about conditions etc). http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_...s/IMG_8337.JPG http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_...s/DSC_3490.JPG What a HUGE difference !!! Did you look at the exif? The Canon photo is at 1/250s f/2.8 while the Nikon at 1/100s f/7.1. (There is no ISO in the Nikon's exif data). Also the sharpness in the Nikon is set to "hard", which seems a less than intelligent thing to do when shooting at ISO 1600. There is a difference between the two cameras in terms of noise (I spent some time trying the 20D and the D200 when I was deciding), but it's by no means as much as you'd think from these two samples. |
#7
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High ISO noise CCD's vs CMOS
"mswlogo" wrote in message ups.com... As far as build quality goes the 20D and 30D are more than adequate unless you are demanding weather sealing. EOS 5D owners jump in here? As for higher ISO the alternative is spending more on lenses with a larger maximum aperture. That usually means brighter viewfinder and better low light focusing. I know the eos 20D can make use of F2.8 or wider lenses. An extra set of autofocus sensors come into play. 2 vertical ones. My one gripe with canon equipment is the tendency of flash system to underexpose. Nikon is said to be superior in this regard. |
#8
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High ISO noise CCD's vs CMOS
mswlogo wrote: But I just can't get paste this ISO thing and I have not typically shot high ISO because it was so bad on my 5700. You've answered your own question then: Get the Canon. Cheers. |
#9
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High ISO noise CCD's vs CMOS
mswlogo wrote:
Ok, I'm in the market for my first DSLR (upgrade from 35 mm SLR and Nikon 5700). I've been looking at reviews on the Sony A100, Nikon D80/D200 and Canon 30D. These are both 1600 ISO (see reviews for more detailed information about conditions etc). http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_...s/IMG_8337.JPG http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_...s/DSC_3490.JPG What a HUGE difference !!! I see so many people say only if you shoot high ISO is it a concern. Unless your shooting with lights in a studio can't any one use high ISO at times? If you can get 2 (or so) stops lower on every lens and get the same picture, why not take it? You'll pay a small fortune for 2 stops on a lens. Are there other compromises in going higher ISO (even in the low range) besides noise. Do you lose color accuracy etc. I really favor Nikon for feel and operation. But this ISO noise has me leaning towards canon CMOS. I also see numerous comments that Canon IS is better than Nikon VR. So that to me is worth probably another stop. So the canon seems to have like a 3 stop advantage over Nikon. I have no investment in lens (my 35mm was a Pentax and I'd never use those boat anchor manual focus lens again). The point about the exposure times and f/stop being different has nothing to do with noise, because the light levels between the two different scenes are probably different. It is all a matter of the total amount of photons received in each exposure. (A laboratory with fixed lighting would make for better tests.) Noise in DSLR camera images is greatly affected by raw converter software, so the only true way to understand the noise is a proper noise analysis on raw data that has not gone through a raw converter. Examples: Procedures for Evaluating Digital Camera Sensor Noise, Dynamic Range, and Full Well Capacities; Canon 1D Mark II Analysis http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/evaluation-1d2 The Nikon D50 Digital Camera: Sensor Noise, Dynamic Range, and Full Well Analysis http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedeta...tion-nikon-d50 The factors that will influence the noise between different cameras is directly related to quantum efficiency, fill factor, pixel size, and at the low intensity end, read noise (and for long exposures, thermal noise). CCD quantum efficiencies tend to be slightly higher than CMOS sensors, so the advantage there is the Nikon (by perhaps 10%). Fill factors are essentially 100% by the use of micro-lenses over the detectors (CCD or CMOS), so no advantage to either. Read noise: Canon's CMOS has 4 electrons on good cameras like the 20D (and by extension 30D; same sensor). CCDs are typically 7 to 15 electrons (the D50 above is ~ 7.5 electrons. So the CMOS has an advantage of ~2x at the very lowest signals, not the main things you see in the steves-digicams.com images which are much brighter. That leaves the major factor in noise: the pixel size. The important factor is delivering photons, and to do that, you need aperture. See: The f/ratio Myth and Digital Cameras http://www.clarkvision.com/photoinfo/f-ratio_myth The D200 has 6.1 micron pixels versus the 30D at 6.4 micron pixels, so a small difference (actually area is the important factor: 37.2 versus 40.1 square microns, again not much difference). There should be a slight advantage to the 30D but it should be small. (I would choose the camera based on other factors.) I will be evaluating a 200 in the next couple of months. Other sensor data are located in Tables 1-3 at: The Signal-to-Noise of Digital Camera images and Comparison to Film http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedeta...ignal.to.noise Roger Roger |
#10
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High ISO noise CCD's vs CMOS
Gosh - you sounded just like me when you said that.
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