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Getting that film look



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 19th 05, 10:38 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.photography,rec.photo.digital
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Default Getting that film look


Chris Loffredo wrote:
Scott W wrote:

O.K., avoiding the great debate (for the moment).

Just, all your pictures have an American flag in them: Is it an article
of the Patriot Act that all photos need to have a US flag in them?

I've lived in seven different countries and, AFAIK, I have no pictures
of flags.

Oh well, de gustibus...


It's not me, it is where I live. I did not even notice the flags in
the photos, show how much the flag flies around here. When I was in
Canada taking photos I did notice I ended up with a fair number of
photos with the Canadian flay in them.

Scott

  #12  
Old December 19th 05, 11:01 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.photography,rec.photo.digital
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Default Getting that film look

In article ,
says...

I have heard these kinds of comments and often find that they are sort of an
urban legend similar to some who insist tube amplifiers sound better than
solid-state amplifiers. Double-blind tests always do them in (they can't
consistently identify the type of amplifier).

Which studies? I have been recording these amps for 30 years and they
sound different and many people "can" tell the difference in double blind
studies. Helps if they have an ear. "The tests you are referring to may
have been skewed to make solid state win out." Easy to do. And, some
people prefer soild state but whenever someone comments on great tones I
have it is always when I have used a tube amp. Some folks even try to say
things like plastic sounds as good or the same as wood to make guitars
and violins. Really? It is not "urban legend" it is a lack of an "ear" or
having a good one in most cases. Do you really think transistors and
tubes react the same and make the same overtones and harmonics and that
people can't tell a difference? Really, talk to any audio professional,
not your local podunk sound guy, a real producer of music. Man, it is
really a sad state when folks can't tell the difference but it does show
why really bad music can sell really well. Sometimes I wonder why those
of us who can tell the diff even bother to do a decent job at all.


Some photography folks are truly informed and prefer film, but they are not
always the ones making these kinds of comments.

As you pointed out, digital manipulation can produce various effects.




  #13  
Old December 19th 05, 11:23 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.photography,rec.photo.digital
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Default Getting that film look


"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
...

I have heard these kinds of comments and often find that they are sort of
an urban legend similar to some who insist tube amplifiers sound better
than solid-state amplifiers. Double-blind tests always do them in (they
can't consistently identify the type of amplifier).


I have recently joined a camera club - which means photographic
competitions. All very good natured and a nice way to get an experienced eye
to view your photographs. The judges in the three competitions I have so far
entered have had a go at guessing whether shots are film or digital. I am
pleased to report that they often get it wrong.

John


  #14  
Old December 19th 05, 11:29 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.photography,rec.photo.digital
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Default Getting that film look


Scott W wrote:
Chris Loffredo wrote:
Scott W wrote:

O.K., avoiding the great debate (for the moment).

Just, all your pictures have an American flag in them: Is it an article
of the Patriot Act that all photos need to have a US flag in them?

I've lived in seven different countries and, AFAIK, I have no pictures
of flags.

Oh well, de gustibus...


It's not me, it is where I live. I did not even notice the flags in
the photos, show how much the flag flies around here. When I was in
Canada taking photos I did notice I ended up with a fair number of
photos with the Canadian flay in them.

Scott


I'm just getting started in digital photography. I shot film for years
(60's into the 80's) and eventually lost interest. I considered myself
a serious amateur and sold some of my work. My eye isn't terribly
sharp, compared to my son's, who is a professional photojournalist. So
all I can say is, I'd love to have taken any of these pix!
I can also say that I disagree with the "if you want it to look like
film, shoot film" comments. There are so many advantages to digital,
I'm discovering, that it certainly makes sense to try to duplicate film
as closely as you can using a far more user-friendly medium. Keep up
the good work! And thanks for sharing with us.

  #16  
Old December 19th 05, 11:42 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.photography,rec.photo.digital
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Posts: n/a
Default Getting that film look


wrote:
In article ,
says...

I have heard these kinds of comments and often find that they are sort of an
urban legend similar to some who insist tube amplifiers sound better than
solid-state amplifiers. Double-blind tests always do them in (they can't
consistently identify the type of amplifier).

Which studies? I have been recording these amps for 30 years and they
sound different and many people "can" tell the difference in double blind
studies. Helps if they have an ear. "The tests you are referring to may
have been skewed to make solid state win out." Easy to do. And, some
people prefer soild state but whenever someone comments on great tones I
have it is always when I have used a tube amp. Some folks even try to say
things like plastic sounds as good or the same as wood to make guitars
and violins. Really? It is not "urban legend" it is a lack of an "ear" or
having a good one in most cases. Do you really think transistors and
tubes react the same and make the same overtones and harmonics and that
people can't tell a difference? Really, talk to any audio professional,
not your local podunk sound guy, a real producer of music. Man, it is
really a sad state when folks can't tell the difference but it does show
why really bad music can sell really well. Sometimes I wonder why those
of us who can tell the diff even bother to do a decent job at all.


Some photography folks are truly informed and prefer film, but they are not
always the ones making these kinds of comments.

As you pointed out, digital manipulation can produce various effects.





I can tell the difference bewteen transistor and tube power amps. I
prefer trannies...

  #17  
Old December 19th 05, 11:47 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.photography,rec.photo.digital
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Posts: n/a
Default Getting that film look

In article . com,
says...

Scott W wrote:
Chris Loffredo wrote:
Scott W wrote:

O.K., avoiding the great debate (for the moment).

Just, all your pictures have an American flag in them: Is it an article
of the Patriot Act that all photos need to have a US flag in them?

I've lived in seven different countries and, AFAIK, I have no pictures
of flags.

Oh well, de gustibus...


It's not me, it is where I live. I did not even notice the flags in
the photos, show how much the flag flies around here. When I was in
Canada taking photos I did notice I ended up with a fair number of
photos with the Canadian flay in them.

Scott


I'm just getting started in digital photography. I shot film for years
(60's into the 80's) and eventually lost interest. I considered myself
a serious amateur and sold some of my work. My eye isn't terribly
sharp, compared to my son's, who is a professional photojournalist. So
all I can say is, I'd love to have taken any of these pix!
I can also say that I disagree with the "if you want it to look like
film, shoot film" comments. There are so many advantages to digital,
I'm discovering, that it certainly makes sense to try to duplicate film
as closely as you can using a far more user-friendly medium. Keep up
the good work! And thanks for sharing with us.


The advantages are debatable for various reasons. Not always easier to
use digital. As for user friendly it depends on if you enjoy working with
computers or using a trusted lab and spending more time at the beach and
a good cafe.

I love computers and digital and having the control but it really is not
fare to say it is more user friendly for everyone as it truly is not for
everyone.

My wife shoots only slides and uses mostly one lab in Italy that does
great work. She really has no reason to go digital and there are no
advantages for the type of work she does. For photojournalists digital is
the way to go. For the average shooter like yourself it if most likely
digital is best as well but someday, who knows, maybe you will take
interest in a particular style and digital will not have any real
advantages.

Now if we just introduce enough distortion in these CDs they will sound
"almost" like vinyl. How much time will that take?
  #18  
Old December 19th 05, 11:48 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.photography,rec.photo.digital
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Getting that film look

In article .com,
says...

wrote:
In article ,
says...

I have heard these kinds of comments and often find that they are sort of an
urban legend similar to some who insist tube amplifiers sound better than
solid-state amplifiers. Double-blind tests always do them in (they can't
consistently identify the type of amplifier).

Which studies? I have been recording these amps for 30 years and they
sound different and many people "can" tell the difference in double blind
studies. Helps if they have an ear. "The tests you are referring to may
have been skewed to make solid state win out." Easy to do. And, some
people prefer soild state but whenever someone comments on great tones I
have it is always when I have used a tube amp. Some folks even try to say
things like plastic sounds as good or the same as wood to make guitars
and violins. Really? It is not "urban legend" it is a lack of an "ear" or
having a good one in most cases. Do you really think transistors and
tubes react the same and make the same overtones and harmonics and that
people can't tell a difference? Really, talk to any audio professional,
not your local podunk sound guy, a real producer of music. Man, it is
really a sad state when folks can't tell the difference but it does show
why really bad music can sell really well. Sometimes I wonder why those
of us who can tell the diff even bother to do a decent job at all.


Some photography folks are truly informed and prefer film, but they are not
always the ones making these kinds of comments.

As you pointed out, digital manipulation can produce various effects.





I can tell the difference bewteen transistor and tube power amps. I
prefer trannies...


I prefer trannies for playback and for bass but not for guitar or keys.
See, it is nice when we have a choice.
  #19  
Old December 20th 05, 12:02 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.photography,rec.photo.digital
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Getting that film look

wrote:

says...

I have heard these kinds of comments and often find that they are sort of an
urban legend similar to some who insist tube amplifiers sound better than
solid-state amplifiers. Double-blind tests always do them in (they can't
consistently identify the type of amplifier).

Which studies? I have been recording these amps for 30 years and they
sound different and many people "can" tell the difference in double blind
studies.


Filtering issues aside, you can only tell if you drive the amp into
non-linearity.

http://milbert.com/tstxt.htm

"Engineers and musicians have long debated the question of tube
sound versus transistor sound. Previous attempts to measure this
difference have always assumed linear operation of the test amplifier.
This conventional method of frequency response, distortion and noise
measurement has shown that no significant difference exists."

And how could it? But of course, if you are the sort who likes to
over-drive your amplifiers, then hey, the more power to ya. Or at
least to the inputs of your amplifiers.

  #20  
Old December 20th 05, 12:13 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.photography,rec.photo.digital
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Getting that film look

I prefer trannies for playback and for bass but not for guitar or keys.
See, it is nice when we have a choice.


Of course. A choice is what it is all about. It does not have to be a
reasoned choice that is based on facts. In a capitalistic democracy, we
vote with our credit cards.

Tube amplifiers clip differently than sold state amplifiers and thus have a
different spectral dispersion of harmonic distortion amplitudes. It's
mostly a bunch of nit-picking and cannot be detected in double-blind
listening tests.

Monster cables are another example of urban legends. They are an example of
a success story based on BS! Gotta love them for what they have
accomplished with sheer psychology and almost zero engineering expertise.

Some just want to believe in the tooth fairy and some of us don't really
care, but have a hard time to always stay quiet.

Sorry to offend posters here ... I just simply disagree. Science is self
correcting and BS is self feeding.


 




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