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#21
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Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
"William Graham" wrote in message news:p%mCc.94061$eu.6020@attbi_s02...
"David H. Lipman" wrote in message ... I almost *always* Top Post and will continue to do so ! If they state it -- there has to be a reason. Please provide it. Dave Any batteries will work in a camera as long as they do not exceed the voltage specs for the camera as put out by the manufacturer. Most of the time probably true, even for camera instructions that say otherwise. But it's not absolutely true. Batteries have other important specs other than just voltage and size. Source-resistance also is an important one. Another important feature has to do with cameras that charge batteries "in camera" (as my wife's new digital camera does). Bad things can happen if the wrong kind of battery is in there. The chemistry of some batteries may be that defective ones (or overcharged ones) will outgas some small amount of something that could affect some cameras more than others. And even then, it may just be statistical. Meaning the "problem" whatever is is, may affect only 1% of users, 99% are fine. That'd only be a problem for the mfgr who's reputation for 'bad cameras' will grow (and for the 1% who had the problem). But that would make it worthwhile saying not to use that kind of battery. Batteries also can have different characteristics over the maximum spec'd temperature range. Some batteries have limited allowable temperature ranges. IOW, it can be more than just voltage rating. Mike |
#22
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Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
"Ron Hunter" wrote in message ... William Graham wrote: "pjp" wrote in message ... I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight, the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be cautious of using them in anything that says not to. If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it. I suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some basic electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less, and the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose for your profession....... WRONG! Lithium batteries are capable of delivering very high currents. If a flashlight is designed for carbon/zinc or alkaline batteries, the designers are probably counting on the internal resistance of the batteries to limit the current through the bulb. Lithiums could easily burn out the bulb. But, it's your flashlight, try it out. Then tell us how it affects bulb life. I am sorry to disagree with you, but the internal resistance of the bulb is what limits the current, (Ohm's law) and not the capability of the battery. A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck battery that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one second sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are types of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts. Lithiums, I believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines. Also, the Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns cooler) on a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums. But it isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage that is impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for example, can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when one uses them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of their internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the device......... |
#23
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Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
http://flashlightreviews.home.att.ne..._explained.htm
I thought it sounded like a good idea to put my NiMH batteries through a deep refresh cycle in my mini Maglite. I toasted the bulb in short order. The new package says not to use them with rechargable batteries. This page says to only use alkaline batteries. http://www.maglite.com/custserv.asp?...F_AAMM_Eng.gif Maybe someone could invent a little resistor cap for lithium batteries, but, of course, some power would be lost to heat. I read an article in a magazine called Real Simple (www.realsimple.com) that tested batteries in a Sony 1.3 MP digital camera. The article is from June/July 2002, so battery technology and prices may differ. Here is the table from the article, space formatted in OE using the default font. They didn't test rechargeables. Battery Price/Battery #Shots Price/Shot Radio Shack Enercell alkaline $1.50 94 1.6¢ Duracell Cu-top alkaline $1.75 108 1.6¢ Rite-Aid alkaline $1.25 76 1.6¢ Duracell Ultra $2.00 121 1.7¢ Energizer e2 Titanium $1.50 82 1.8¢ Energizer e2 Lithium $5.00 220 2.3¢ |
#24
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Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service bySony... Read on...
William Graham wrote:
"pjp" wrote in message ... I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight, the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be cautious of using them in anything that says not to. If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it. I suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some basic electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less, and the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose for your profession....... A camera may also have inductive circuits such that regardless of the battery voltage will draw more current than expected if the battery is capable of delivering it. If the device was designed to oversome limitations in alkaline batteries (internal resistance), then with more current-capable batteries high current might ensue ... and even if briefly, long enough to cause damage. If Minolta tell me don't use lithium in a device, I will heed their advice. It's too expensive not to. -- --e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.-- |
#25
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Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
That price range is off!
Like I previously stated, I get AA Lithiums (Energizer e2) at Sears for ~$10.00 ($9.99) for 4 x AA batteries that's $2.50/battery not $5.00/battery. Dave | | Energizer e2 | Lithium $5.00 220 2.3¢ "Fishface" ? wrote in message ... | http://flashlightreviews.home.att.ne..._explained.htm | | I thought it sounded like a good idea to put my NiMH batteries through | a deep refresh cycle in my mini Maglite. I toasted the bulb in short | order. The new package says not to use them with rechargable | batteries. This page says to only use alkaline batteries. | http://www.maglite.com/custserv.asp?...F_AAMM_Eng.gif | | Maybe someone could invent a little resistor cap for lithium batteries, | but, of course, some power would be lost to heat. | | I read an article in a magazine called Real Simple (www.realsimple.com) | that tested batteries in a Sony 1.3 MP digital camera. The article is from | June/July 2002, so battery technology and prices may differ. Here is the | table from the article, space formatted in OE using the default font. They | didn't test rechargeables. | | Battery Price/Battery #Shots Price/Shot | | Radio Shack | Enercell alkaline $1.50 94 1.6¢ | | Duracell | Cu-top alkaline $1.75 108 1.6¢ | | Rite-Aid alkaline $1.25 76 1.6¢ | | Duracell Ultra $2.00 121 1.7¢ | | Energizer e2 | Titanium $1.50 82 1.8¢ | | Energizer e2 | Lithium $5.00 220 2.3¢ | | | |
#26
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Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
David H. Lipman wrote:
That price range is off! Yes, I suspected as much. So ignore that! Costco has the Energizer e2 Lithium 4-pak for $6.99 on the website, I'm not sure about the stores, though. Which brand are you using? |
#27
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Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
Which brand ?
Energizer e2 Lithium 4-pak. Dave "Fishface" ? wrote in message ... | David H. Lipman wrote: | That price range is off! | | Yes, I suspected as much. So ignore that! | | Costco has the Energizer e2 Lithium 4-pak for $6.99 on | the website, I'm not sure about the stores, though. Which | brand are you using? | | |
#28
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Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 19:56:04 GMT, "William Graham" wrote: "Ron Hunter" wrote in message ... William Graham wrote: "pjp" wrote in message ... I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight, the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be cautious of using them in anything that says not to. If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it. I suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some basic electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less, and the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose for your profession....... WRONG! Lithium batteries are capable of delivering very high currents. If a flashlight is designed for carbon/zinc or alkaline batteries, the designers are probably counting on the internal resistance of the batteries to limit the current through the bulb. Lithiums could easily burn out the bulb. But, it's your flashlight, try it out. Then tell us how it affects bulb life. I am sorry to disagree with you, but the internal resistance of the bulb is what limits the current, (Ohm's law) and not the capability of the battery. A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck battery that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one second sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are types of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts. Lithiums, I believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines. Also, the Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns cooler) on a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums. But it isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage that is impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for example, can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when one uses them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of their internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the device......... Utter ****ing ********, you know **** all. We were advised here by Panasonic not to use Alkaline batteries in remote controls, due to the lower battery resistance.. If you short out a battery, (effectively an infinite load) then the current will be limited only by the internal resistance of the battery. But, for all reasonable loads, it is the load resistance that is the determining factor. A remote control should draw very little current, so I respectfully suggest that Panasonic was wrong........ |
#29
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Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
"Alan Browne" wrote in message .. . William Graham wrote: "pjp" wrote in message ... I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight, the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be cautious of using them in anything that says not to. If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it. I suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some basic electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less, and the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose for your profession....... A camera may also have inductive circuits such that regardless of the battery voltage will draw more current than expected if the battery is capable of delivering it. If the device was designed to oversome limitations in alkaline batteries (internal resistance), then with more current-capable batteries high current might ensue ... and even if briefly, long enough to cause damage. If Minolta tell me don't use lithium in a device, I will heed their advice. It's too expensive not to. The only thing internal battery resistance would affect is the short circuit current. If the battery load is reasonable, (so the batteries would last more than a few minutes) then this internal resistance can have no deleterious effect on the device. I suggest that the reason the manufacturer doesn't want you to use lithium batteries is because they put out a little more voltage per cell than alkalines, so a set of them might over voltage the device. If you believe the specs on the device are that marginal, then by all means, use the batteries the manufacturer recommends. As for me, the determining factor is the batteries tendency to leak in time and destroy the battery compartment, especially in devices such as flash units that I may not use for a long time. This has happened to me often enough so that I usually just remove the batteries altogether after I use the device. If I do this with some cameras, however, the camera looses its internal memory, and forgets what frame it's on, and other important information, so I keep it energized with a fresh set of batteries every few months. (I usually am using it every day or so, anyway) |
#30
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Sony Cybershot DSC-W1... Bad Camera...Bad Customer Service by Sony... Read on...
No, he is right and you are mistaken. Sorry. Bob On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 01:53:37 +1200, Robert Mathews wrote: On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 19:56:04 GMT, "William Graham" wrote: "Ron Hunter" wrote in message ... William Graham wrote: "pjp" wrote in message ... I know every time I've used a set of my Lithiums to power up a flashlight, the bulb doesn't last very long (e.g. minutes at most). Therefore I'd be cautious of using them in anything that says not to. If the voltage is correct for the bulb, the battery type can't hurt it. I suggest you look up Ohm's law, and take a few minutes to learn some basic electrical theory.....Believe me, it should only take an hour or less, and the information will be invaluable to you, regardless of what you choose for your profession....... WRONG! Lithium batteries are capable of delivering very high currents. If a flashlight is designed for carbon/zinc or alkaline batteries, the designers are probably counting on the internal resistance of the batteries to limit the current through the bulb. Lithiums could easily burn out the bulb. But, it's your flashlight, try it out. Then tell us how it affects bulb life. I am sorry to disagree with you, but the internal resistance of the bulb is what limits the current, (Ohm's law) and not the capability of the battery. BOLLOCK ******** go get a Brain transplant as you do need one.. All batteries have internal resistance and goes up as the battery ages.. A 12 volt light bulb will operate the same with a lead-acid truck battery that is capable of delivering 200 amperes, and not burn out one second sooner that it would if operating on eight 1-1/2 volt AA flashlight batteries. Now, having said that, it is certainly true that there are types of batteries that differ in voltage output by slight amounts. Lithiums, I believe, put out 1.55 volts per cell, and not 1.5 as do alkalines. Also, the Ni-mhd type might put out only 1.2 volts per cell, so a bulb that is nominally rated for 1.5 volts would last longer (because it burns cooler) on a set of Ni-mhd batteries than it would on the same set of lithiums. But it isn't the fault of the battery type, but rather the total voltage that is impressed on the bulb filament. 12 volt lead acid batteries, for example, can be charged up to around 14 volts, so one should be careful when one uses them in devices that are meant for a nominal 12 volts, not because of their internal resistance, but simply because 14 volts might smoke the device......... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin) |
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