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#121
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Buying new digital camera
In article ,
"J. Clarke" wrote: Again, I am not talking about what may or may not be "adequate" to "most people". I am talking about a service level from a local merchant to get the product that best suits your needs. While in some instances that may end up being the lowest common denominator, most times it is not. A specific gear being "adequate" to "most people" is a good examples of "most people" not doing proper research, which is the basis of my entire point. So you're saying that if my mother before buying her Brownie Hawkeye had done "proper research" she'd have bought a Hasselblad? All my comments have been about "most people" in 2013, your analogies from "yore" only apply as far as "adequateness" goes, not as far as possible choices goes. People today have more choice, as you know. If it does what they want it to do and costs what they wanted to spend then tney did research proper to their needs. My claim is that only one of those criteria is being met. Otherwise the word "adequate" wouldn't be used. If you use "adequate" to describe the camera, then it means that there is a camera that would fit better, which they would have known about had they done proper research. This may come as a shock to you, but most people who buy cameras want something that produces mementos, they don't want great art. That does indeed come as a shock to me, given the fact that every single person I know are really happe when they manage to take a shot that has really god artistic value. In fact, the sheer popularity of instagram should tell you that people yearn after means to make some form of artistic statement with their otherwise dull "mementos". The Brownie did that just fine. So will just about any digital camera you buy today. Again, that is the definition of "adequate", which just proves my entire point. Again and again. A modern digital camera needs to be exceedingly craptastic to not beat those specs. ...for someone only trying to achieve adequateness. Which is what most people who buy cameras want. Of course not. Everyone buying something looks to get the most value for the money they spent, which rarely - if ever - is the same equipment that is defined as "adequate". But that's just *it*. The way they world works is in direct opposite to this. Valuing your customers amounts to nothing when they end up at the super stores to get the low prices they have there. If they end up at the super stores then they aren't your customer ...any longer. They WERE your customer. They're not any longer. Which is why you have to close your shop. It's not like all your customers just died suddenly. When they walk in it's up to you to close the sale. They're NOT walking in any longer. They're walking to the superstore. They left you. In spite of your excellent customer service, in spite of your vast knowledge about cameras, in spite of you being a super likable person! In spite of the free coffee and biscuits you had in the corner, in spite of everything! They left you because you *can't* compete on price with the super store and live. You can't. So they left you, because cheaper gear is more important than all the added value you added to the buying experience (with or without coffee). The general consumer values "adequateness" for a cheap buck over "perfect" from a knowledgable person for a couple of dollars more. If you're not an effective closer you should start paying more attention to salesmanship and less to the minute details of the technical specifications of cameras. That's just backwards. Not one single person in the camera department in the superstores has undergone any form of salesman training. They're horrible salesmen. They know next to nothing about the equipment they carry, and less than nothing about the equipment they DON'T carry, they won't do any research for you, and have but the superflous comment to make about their products. They're the anti-salesmen! Yet the sheer number that go through these departments means they sell mroe cameras per day than a small store would sell in a week. In *spite* of being horrible salesmen. Do they go into the small scale stores at all? Increasingly less. If they don't go in at all then how such stores might treat them is irrelevant. We're talking about past tense - they're dying out, remember? It's how they *treated* them. If you aren't closing the sale you have problems with your salesmanship This is just plain out incorrect, as outlined above. I look at the web sites for the local camera stores and if I didn't alreaady have a relationship with them there is nothing in those sites that made me want to visit them. You should go to the superstores then! I'm sure they can help you... Haha. -- Sandman[.net] |
#122
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Buying new digital camera
Jake29 wrote: I lost the digital camera that I had and I need to buy a new one. I recently bought a Samsung ST88 pocket point and shoot about $75 It has a Li-ion battery came with a USB charger but will recharge out of any USB port. 16Mpixel, MicroSD card memory. The one I have is F2.5 and 5x analog zoom. There are variations with slower lenses and analog zoom to 21x. Size 3.75 * 2.25 * 0.75. In general I quite happy with it. Couple noteable features 1) It is has a panorama mode that user scans a scene the camera automatically stitches the panorama in one dimension into a single large image. I used this a lot on a recent trip. 2) Integrates multiple images in low light (common with many small point and shoot) w.. |
#123
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Buying new digital camera
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#124
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Buying new digital camera
In article ,
"J. Clarke" wrote: All my comments have been about "most people" in 2013, your analogies from "yore" only apply as far as "adequateness" goes, not as far as possible choices goes. People today have more choice, as you know. In 2013 a Brownie will still take adequate pictures of the kids' Halloween costumes and the like. Most people who buy cameras don't really want more than that. As I've explained, this isn't true. If it does what they want it to do and costs what they wanted to spend then tney did research proper to their needs. My claim is that only one of those criteria is being met. Which is not being met? "It does what they want it to do". Otherwise the word "adequate" wouldn't be used. If you use "adequate" to describe the camera, then it means that there is a camera that would fit better, which they would have known about had they done proper research. Rolls Royce used to describe the power of their automobile engines as "adequate". Adequate means just that. Yes, Rolls Royce had poor performing engines, considering the immense weight of the cars. They were adequate since they did propel the car forwards, but far from satisfactory for someone that wanted more than just mere propulsion. Luckily for Rolls Royce, most of their customers weren't looking for great acceleration or top speed. That does indeed come as a shock to me, given the fact that every single person I know are really happe when they manage to take a shot that has really god artistic value. Have you considere that you are working from a biased sample? Not really. In fact, the sheer popularity of instagram should tell you that people yearn after means to make some form of artistic statement with their otherwise dull "mementos". What makes you think that they are after "artistic statement"? Have you used instagram? It is fairly known for its ability to add artistic filters to your photos to make them look more exciting than they really are. Some 99% of instagram photos have filters added to this effect. The Brownie did that just fine. So will just about any digital camera you buy today. Again, that is the definition of "adequate", which just proves my entire point. Again and again. What point do you think that you are "proving"? That adequate isn't perfect. That users could find the perfect camera by either doing proper research or buying from a knowledgable store (i.e. not a superstore). Of course not. Everyone buying something looks to get the most value for the money they spent, which rarely - if ever - is the same equipment that is defined as "adequate". So let's see, a 150 buck camera is adequate but one that costs 1500 bucks is a better value for that purpose? You aren't a defense contractor are you? I didn't make this numbers up, you did. I can't comment on numbers you make up. I am saying that $X buys you adequate and $Y buys you perfect while both being in the same budget scope. You would find the perfect camera for $Y if you do proper research or deal with the right camera store. When they walk in it's up to you to close the sale. They're NOT walking in any longer. Then customer service has no relevance. My god you're obtuse. Why won't you read what I write? They're walking to the superstore. Then quit whining about customer service and start whining about crappy marketing. *rolleye* Marketing for a store that's closed?? What's the purpose? They left you. No, they didn't. They may have left _somebody_ but I'm not a camera store so they didn't leave _me_. "you" in *both our examples* refer to the general "you" as in the camera store owner. You used the same figurative "you" in your example above: "When they walk in it's up to you to close the sale" In spite of your excellent customer service, in spite of your vast knowledge about cameras, in spite of you being a super likable person! In spite of the free coffee and biscuits you had in the corner, in spite of everything! They left you because you *can't* compete on price with the super store and live. You can't. So they left you, because cheaper gear is more important than all the added value you added to the buying experience (with or without coffee). The general consumer values "adequateness" for a cheap buck over "perfect" from a knowledgable person for a couple of dollars more. Which says that you deserve to go under because you could not add value to your product sufficient to justify the higher price. Incorrect. The added value was more than adequate. The consumers choose no added value and slightly lower prices to end up with merely "adequate" products. If you're not an effective closer you should start paying more attention to salesmanship and less to the minute details of the technical specifications of cameras. That's just backwards. No, that's reality in sales. It's your job as a salesman to close the sale. It's still backwards, given the fact that I wrote about in the next part of my paragraph with you cut up and responded to only one part first: Not one single person in the camera department in the superstores has undergone any form of salesman training. And they have the advantage of effective marketing which gives them enough numbers that they don't have to as high a percentage of sales. What - so it's no longer a reality in sales that salesmanship is an important part of closing the sales? Nice 180 there! They're horrible salesmen. They know next to nothing about the equipment they carry, and less than nothing about the equipment they DON'T carry, they won't do any research for you, and have but the superflous comment to make about their products. They're the anti-salesmen! Yet the sheer number that go through these departments means they sell mroe cameras per day than a small store would sell in a week. In *spite* of being horrible salesmen. So go work there if you don't want to have to be an effective closer to stay in business. Why should I go work there? What are you on about? If they don't go in at all then how such stores might treat them is irrelevant. We're talking about past tense - they're dying out, remember? It's how they *treated* them. Treaated who? The *CUSTOMERS*. My god. Who did you think, Elvis Presley? What percentage of the people you are talking about has ever been in any of the stores whose loss you are lamenting? 100% given the fact that the superstores didn't exist not long ago. You should go to the superstores then! I'm sure they can help you... Haha. And so you further dig your own grave. Instead of telling people "well go to the big box store", how about you FIX YOUR EFFING WEB SITE ya lazy bum! Wtf? Do you think I own a store? I have repeatedly talked about superstores and small scale stores from the perspective of a consumer. Whatever gave you the idea that I owned a store? Why won't you read? -- Sandman[.net] |
#125
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Buying new digital camera
James Silverton wrote:
On 7/4/2013 6:26 AM, Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: James Silverton wrote: On 7/2/2013 1:54 AM, Alfred Molon wrote: In article , James Silverton says... An optical viewfinder beats guessing at just what you are photographing in bright light. But you are not guessing - you are framing with the LCD screen. Not if the screen is mostly a gray blur. Charged batteries help. Besides, there are no viewfinders for a 20x zoom compact camera. If there were a 20x zoom compact camera, I doubt it would be inexpensive or small. http://geizhals.de/?cat=dcam&xf=70_20&sort=p 100 EUR http://geizhals.de/?cat=dcam&sort=p&...79_28 #xf_top 105x60x25mm You're out of date by a decade or so. Not as of a week ago when I persuaded a camera store to let me take a $150 Nikon outside. I'm puzzled. Did I somewhere imply "there is no compat camera that doesn't have 20x zoom"? Or did your store clerk not have any 20x cameras and therfore there are none? Or what does wour sentence mean? -Wolfgang |
#126
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Buying new digital camera
Savageduck wrote:
On 2013-07-04 03:18:17 -0700, Wolfgang Weisselberg Tony Cooper wrote: I understand that. My main point about AAs is that you can buy regular AAs just about anywhere and use them in a pinch. That may save a special moment or a necessary business shot. [...] Noone ever asks what happens if your storage medium is full, though, which --- unless you have time to delete photos and *can* delete these photos --- is just as fun. If that happens you haven't planned your photo safari very well. My argument being that this is just as true with running out of power ... -Wolfgang |
#127
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Buying new digital camera
Sandman wrote:
That's just backwards. Not one single person in the camera department in the superstores has undergone any form of salesman training. Yes, noone ever trains their salesmen ever in sales techniques. If they manage to get some training in their own time, they are immediately fired. And of course Sandman has tested every salesman in every superstore everywhere in the sun system. -Wolfgang |
#128
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Buying new digital camera
In article ,
Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: That's just backwards. Not one single person in the camera department in the superstores has undergone any form of salesman training. Yes, noone ever trains their salesmen ever in sales techniques. Exactly. If they manage to get some training in their own time, they are immediately fired. Eh, ok? And of course Sandman has tested every salesman in every superstore everywhere in the sun system. Nope. Why would you think that? Are you trolling? Making absurd statements with the motive of discrediting my claim? Wouldn't a counter-claim be more effective? It may reflect better on you at least. -- Sandman[.net] |
#129
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Buying new digital camera
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#130
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Buying new digital camera
Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sat, 06 Jul 2013 14:53:34 +0200, Sandman wrote: In article , Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: That's just backwards. Not one single person in the camera department in the superstores has undergone any form of salesman training. Yes, noone ever trains their salesmen ever in sales techniques. Exactly. If ever there was a case for emoticons, silly as they may be, this is it. Sarcasm that the censor understands is too obvious. I took Wolfgang's comment to be sarcasm. Is there any other way one can read that when one lives with some internet access? -Wolfgang |
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