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#11
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iPad use with Catalina
On 25/10/2019 13:45, Incubus wrote:
On 2019-10-25, sms wrote: On 10/23/2019 6:29 PM, newshound wrote: snip And it is disappointing to find that a significant chunk of my applications no longer work, including Audacity and Picasa. Audacity has a suggestion for a workaround that they say has worked for some users: https://www.audacityteam.org/macos-10-15-catalina-is-not-yet-supported-by-audacity/. There is no solution for Picasa which is really too bad since it was an excellent photo editor. There is a solution: learn to frame and expose photos correctly in the first instance. Practice with a film camera if you really want to learn. I rather suspect I was using film cameras before you were born. |
#12
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iPad use with Catalina
In article , Incubus
wrote: There is a solution: learn to frame and expose photos correctly in the first instance. there was a lot of darkroom manipulation with film, more so than the digital equivalent today because the cameras were nowhere near as capable. People are doing a lot more with digital editing (or "doctoring" as I call it) than mere dodge and burn. not really. most people do little to nothing because what comes out of the camera is already amazingly good. maybe they make minor adjustments to the brightness and contrast, something film labs did without asking, and perhaps crop it a little. and what you call 'doctoring' was also done with film, it was just a *lot* harder, took a *lot* more time, and the results nowhere near as good, nor were they reproducible because each time was a repeat of the steps, and if you make a mistake, you have to start over from scratch. Practice with a film camera if you really want to learn. it's *much* easier to learn photography with digital. True, but I recommend a more efficient learning curve. nothing is more efficient than learning with digital. |
#13
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iPad use with Catalina
On Oct 25, 2019, Incubus wrote
(in article ): You can always tell those who rely on their Photoshop crutch just a bit too much - they get angry when you talk about not needing it. Photoshop, and the various other digital editor, image processing software are just tools each of which require a learning investment on the part of the user. In much the same way the wet darkroom that we used in the past (...and some continue to use today) required a learning investment. Neither the wet, nor the digital darkroom is any guarantee that the user will be capable of producing a photographic image that is pleasing to the viewer. Neither of them, wet, or digital darkroom are crutches which will fix the work of a poor photographer. What all of them can do, regardless of whether it is a wet darkroom, Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One, DxO PhotoLab, Affinity Photo, or even Picasa, is allow the photographer who has learned how to properly use any of those tools, to produce images which standout from the crowd of snapshots in a way the Kodak Kiosk, Walmart, or Costco never could. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#14
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iPad use with Catalina
On 10/25/2019 6:08 AM, newshound wrote:
On 25/10/2019 13:45, Incubus wrote: On 2019-10-25, sms wrote: On 10/23/2019 6:29 PM, newshound wrote: snip And it is disappointing to find that a significant chunk of my applications no longer work, including Audacity and Picasa. Audacity has a suggestion for a workaround that they say has worked for some users: https://www.audacityteam.org/macos-10-15-catalina-is-not-yet-supported-by-audacity/. There is no solution for Picasa which is really too bad since it was an excellent photo editor. There is a solution: learn to frame and expose photos correctly in the first instance.Â* Practice with a film camera if you really want to learn. I rather suspect I was using film cameras before you were born. I read about film in my history book. |
#15
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iPad use with Catalina
In article , Incubus
wrote: There is a solution: learn to frame and expose photos correctly in the first instance. there was a lot of darkroom manipulation with film, more so than the digital equivalent today because the cameras were nowhere near as capable. People are doing a lot more with digital editing (or "doctoring" as I call it) than mere dodge and burn. You have, obviously, no ****ing idea what you are talking about. You can always tell those who rely on their Photoshop crutch just a bit too much - they get angry when you talk about not needing it. photoshop is in no way a crutch. it's an *extremely* powerful tool that can do everything that could be done in a darkroom more reliably and consistently, plus a whole *lot* more. those who bash it don't know how to use it and don't want to learn anything new. |
#16
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iPad use with Catalina
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote: There is a solution: learn to frame and expose photos correctly in the first instance. there was a lot of darkroom manipulation with film, Not so much with film quite a bit with film. your'e forgetting the process which was part of learning. the process hasn't gone away. more so than the digital equivalent today because the cameras were nowhere near as capable. camras now decide for themselves what exposure and focus is needed. they did that with film too, and do a much better job than humans can, leaving more time for creativity. It won't be long before even framing is an auto function set by the camera. it already is. Practice with a film camera if you really want to learn. it's *much* easier to learn photography with digital. It should be. it is. But if you want to learn photography rather than how to take a snap. then you use digital |
#17
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iPad use with Catalina
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote: There is a solution: learn to frame and expose photos correctly in the first instance. there was a lot of darkroom manipulation with film, more so than the digital equivalent today because the cameras were nowhere near as capable. People are doing a lot more with digital editing (or "doctoring" as I call it) than mere dodge and burn. not really. most people do little to nothing because what comes out of the camera is already amazingly good. Yes the camera is doing the work. giving the photographer more time to compose photos. maybe they make minor adjustments to the brightness and contrast, something film labs did without asking, and perhaps crop it a little. I'm not sure the photographers I knew sent their films to those sort of labs. there's no other way to see the photos, unless they develop it themselves, which very few people did, especially colour. But in the club I was in there was compititon where lab or professionally processed prints were allowed. of course they were allowed. otherwise, there wouldn't be enough entries to have a contest. |
#18
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iPad use with Catalina
In article , Incubus
wrote: The problem is that digitally edited files tend to have a certain look to them, only if the person doesn't know what they're doing, just like what happened in the darkroom. particularly given the penchant people have for processing to the point that images look unnatural. very, very, very few such images. almost none, in fact. you have to go out of your way to find them. It has reached the point where a properly exposed photo taken straight out of camera stands out more than one that has been edited to "perfection". This isn't just user error; it is endemic. nonsense. |
#19
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iPad use with Catalina
On Oct 25, 2019, nospam wrote
(in ) : In , Incubus wrote: There is a solution: learn to frame and expose photos correctly in the first instance. there was a lot of darkroom manipulation with film, more so than the digital equivalent today because the cameras were nowhere near as capable. People are doing a lot more with digital editing (or "doctoring" as I call it) than mere dodge and burn. not really. most people do little to nothing because what comes out of the camera is already amazingly good. ....and yet everyday millions of digital cameras, and smartphone users produce crappy images with every press of the shutter which no post processing will ever fix. No ‘doctoring’ of any type will ever fix them regardless of the perpetrator of the digital visual assault now calling it art. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#20
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iPad use with Catalina
On Oct 25, 2019, Incubus wrote
(in article ): On 2019-10-25, wrote: On Oct 25, 2019, Incubus wrote (in article ): You can always tell those who rely on their Photoshop crutch just a bit too much - they get angry when you talk about not needing it. Photoshop, and the various other digital editor, image processing software are just tools each of which require a learning investment on the part of the user. In much the same way the wet darkroom that we used in the past (...and some continue to use today) required a learning investment. Neither the wet, nor the digital darkroom is any guarantee that the user will be capable of producing a photographic image that is pleasing to the viewer. Neither of them, wet, or digital darkroom are crutches which will fix the work of a poor photographer. What all of them can do, regardless of whether it is a wet darkroom, Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One, DxO PhotoLab, Affinity Photo, or even Picasa, is allow the photographer who has learned how to properly use any of those tools, to produce images which standout from the crowd of snapshots in a way the Kodak Kiosk, Walmart, or Costco never could. The problem is that digitally edited files tend to have a certain look to them, particularly given the penchant people have for processing to the point that images look unnatural. It has reached the point where a properly exposed photo taken straight out of camera stands out more than one that has been edited to "perfection". This isn't just user error; it is endemic. As I have said, there is a learning curve for both learning fundamentals of capturing a well composed image with any camera, film, or digital, as well as processing either film, or digital file. Remember that even film, properly exposed, has to endure some sort of processing. Ultimately it is whichever of your images you might care to share whether shot with an Argus C3, a Nikon, or a Fujifilm, or even a smartphone. https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PBnNG2T/0/2ab4c25b/O/i-PBnNG2T.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BMHK5Pb/0/30ffb209/O/i-BMHK5Pb.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ccP5nDb/0/decf0f5b/O/i-ccP5nDb.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-wzj8hGp/0/64dfb187/O/i-wzj8hGp.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-w8DxFTk/0/7707b86c/O/i-w8DxFTk.jpg -- Regards, Savageduck |
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