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  #21  
Old May 22nd 05, 10:58 AM
David J Taylor
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measekite wrote:
[]
Photoshop is supposed to be the best but I find that while it reduces
(not eliminates) noise is does compromise other things in the picture
like sharpness.


I don't think that Photoshop has a specific digital camera noise reduction
function, unlike Paint Shop Pro which has DCNR, and you might also like to
try out NeatImage (free version available). These programs employ special
algorithms to retain sharpness while reducing noise.

Cheers,
David


  #22  
Old May 22nd 05, 04:10 PM
Jan Böhme
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On Fri, 20 May 2005 23:05:10 GMT, measekite
wrote:

If you really must wait, I'd suggest that having a swivel LCD finder,
perhaps a bigger sensor than the 1/2.5 inches, and perhaps a better EVF
were worth having. Some might want better video as well.

Cheers,
David



Are we not getting near to the description of the Canon S2?


Slap a flash hotshoe onto the Canon S2, and I wouldn't find much else
to long for in a non-DSLR. Probably only a better EVF with an
instantaneous refresh rate.

Jan Böhme
Korrekta personuppgifter är att betrakta som journalistik.
Felaktigheter utgör naturligtvis skönlitteratur.
  #23  
Old May 23rd 05, 05:02 AM
Ed
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Also, try out Noiseware Pro. That's my favorite. Fast, easy to use. There
is also a free version.

Ed


"David J Taylor"
wrote in message . uk...
measekite wrote:
[]
Photoshop is supposed to be the best but I find that while it reduces
(not eliminates) noise is does compromise other things in the picture
like sharpness.


I don't think that Photoshop has a specific digital camera noise reduction
function, unlike Paint Shop Pro which has DCNR, and you might also like to
try out NeatImage (free version available). These programs employ special
algorithms to retain sharpness while reducing noise.

Cheers,
David




  #24  
Old May 26th 05, 03:38 AM
measekite
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Default

When you reduce the effect of noise in a program like photoshop

1. How effective is it in reducing noise?

2. What are the undesireable things it does when noise it reduced?

David J Taylor wrote:

measekite wrote:
[]


All of the sample shots I find are ISO80. I would like to see the
same shot at ISO 80,200,400.



I suggest you borrow a camera from a photo store and take pictures for
yourself, as we seem to have established that the camera is basically OK
for you. Also be aware that as already mentioned you can reduce the
effect of noise in an image with programs like Neat Image, Paint Shop Pro
etc.

I really wouldn't get hung up on this - if you want low noise from a small
sensor camera stick with low ISO, and if you need low noise and high ISO,
buy a DSLR.

Cheers,
David




  #25  
Old May 26th 05, 03:41 AM
measekite
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Anyone know if the Canon S2 shows all of the menu information in the EVF
like the Z5? I like that feature.

Jan Böhme wrote:

On Fri, 20 May 2005 23:05:10 GMT, measekite
wrote:



If you really must wait, I'd suggest that having a swivel LCD finder,
perhaps a bigger sensor than the 1/2.5 inches, and perhaps a better EVF
were worth having. Some might want better video as well.

Cheers,
David




Are we not getting near to the description of the Canon S2?



Slap a flash hotshoe onto the Canon S2, and I wouldn't find much else
to long for in a non-DSLR. Probably only a better EVF with an
instantaneous refresh rate.

Jan Böhme
Korrekta personuppgifter är att betrakta som journalistik.
Felaktigheter utgör naturligtvis skönlitteratur.


  #26  
Old May 26th 05, 03:55 AM
Ed
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I don't know, but I also value that feature on my C-750. Sometimes you just
have to use the EVF in bright sun to set menu items. I think its one of the
secret (and overlooked)advantages of having a camera with an EVF over one
with an optical viewfinder.
Ed

"measekite" wrote in message
m...
Anyone know if the Canon S2 shows all of the menu information in the EVF
like the Z5? I like that feature.

Jan Böhme wrote:

On Fri, 20 May 2005 23:05:10 GMT, measekite
wrote:



If you really must wait, I'd suggest that having a swivel LCD finder,
perhaps a bigger sensor than the 1/2.5 inches, and perhaps a better EVF
were worth having. Some might want better video as well.

Cheers,
David




Are we not getting near to the description of the Canon S2?



Slap a flash hotshoe onto the Canon S2, and I wouldn't find much else
to long for in a non-DSLR. Probably only a better EVF with an
instantaneous refresh rate.

Jan Böhme
Korrekta personuppgifter är att betrakta som journalistik.
Felaktigheter utgör naturligtvis skönlitteratur.




  #27  
Old May 26th 05, 03:58 AM
Ed
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Default

I often shoot theater productions at ISO 400 and get plenty of noise. I
batch run the files through Noiseware Pro and that makes a huge improvement.
It subtracts color and luminance noise without reducing sharpness. The
adjustments let you determine how smooth you want the noisy areas to be
before it starts to look plastic and phoney. I think these noise programs
are invaluable with typical digital camera noise.

Ed

"measekite" wrote in message
m...
When you reduce the effect of noise in a program like photoshop

1. How effective is it in reducing noise?

2. What are the undesireable things it does when noise it reduced?

David J Taylor wrote:

measekite wrote:
[]


All of the sample shots I find are ISO80. I would like to see the
same shot at ISO 80,200,400.



I suggest you borrow a camera from a photo store and take pictures for
yourself, as we seem to have established that the camera is basically OK
for you. Also be aware that as already mentioned you can reduce the
effect of noise in an image with programs like Neat Image, Paint Shop Pro
etc.

I really wouldn't get hung up on this - if you want low noise from a

small
sensor camera stick with low ISO, and if you need low noise and high ISO,
buy a DSLR.

Cheers,
David






  #28  
Old May 26th 05, 08:22 AM
David J Taylor
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Posts: n/a
Default

Ed wrote:
"measekite" wrote in message
m...
When you reduce the effect of noise in a program like photoshop

1. How effective is it in reducing noise?

2. What are the undesireable things it does when noise it reduced?


I often shoot theater productions at ISO 400 and get plenty of noise.
I batch run the files through Noiseware Pro and that makes a huge
improvement. It subtracts color and luminance noise without reducing
sharpness. The adjustments let you determine how smooth you want the
noisy areas to be before it starts to look plastic and phoney. I
think these noise programs are invaluable with typical digital camera
noise.

Ed


I'd second what Ed said - although I used to use NeatImage and now use
Paint Shop Pro. The programs are very effective reducing noise and
retaining sharpness. If you overdo the noise reduction, large areas of
the image cam become the same colour, resulting in a sort of "plastic"
appearance, which you may have seen in multiple-generation analog
video-tape copies.

Cheers,
David


  #29  
Old May 26th 05, 12:21 PM
Witold
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Posts: n/a
Default

measekite wrote in news:mEale.1684$rY6.1596
@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

When you reduce the effect of noise in a program like photoshop

1. How effective is it in reducing noise?
2. What are the undesireable things it does when noise it reduced?


I would say that the effectiveness of noise reduction varies from image
to image. For example, if the main subject is reasonably well
illuminated, its intrinsic noise levels will likely be low. If the
background is darker, then that's where the noise is likely to show up.
If the background is out-of-focus, then applying noise reduction to it
will not disturb much detail, so the noise reduction will be fairly
"invisible" but effective. If the entire image is noisy, then it may
fundamentally already have less detail as a result of the noise. Hence,
applying noise reduction may reduce the details even further, and also
affect the tonal transitions, to make the end result look a bit
"plasticky". To some degree, the undesirable effects of noise reduction
are a subjective assessment that depends on the print size and the image
quality desired by the photographer.

It may be instructive to investigate the effects of noise reduction on
images for yourself. That way you can readily gain some first hand
experience. There are a number of demo or freeware versions of noise
reduction software that can be installed on your computer. Then, it is
possible to download some images from the digicam review sites that have
specifically been taken with varying ISO values and therefore varying
degrees of noise present. Apply the the noise reduction and see what you
get, and you should then be able to reach a judgement as to how important
noise might be for your purposes.

Keep in mind that using a ZLR at ISO 200 or ISO 400 will result in images
that are quite a bit noisier than those from a DSLR at the same or even
higher ISOs.

--
Witold.
  #30  
Old May 26th 05, 12:23 PM
Witold
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measekite wrote in
m:

Anyone know if the Canon S2 shows all of the menu information in the
EVF like the Z5? I like that feature.


I would suggest that you take a look at some reviews of the Canon S1. That
camera does show all the menu information in the EVF, and I imagine that
the Canon S2 will be quite similar in that regard. I am looking forward to
reading the reviews of the Canon S2 IS when they are published; it seems
like a nice camera in its market slot.

--
Witold.
 




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