Panasonic m4/3 better than Sony APS

On 9/30/2011 10:45 PM, RichA wrote:
800 ISO raws. The m4/3 density on the GH2 is higher than the 24mp
Sony APS. The Panasonic sensor has noticeably less noise. If they
ever upsize that sensor...

http://tinyurl.com/4x8vatl


What about noise per shot, instead of peeping at the pixel level? Which
camera will produce a better print at higher ISOs? My money is on the Sony.

Also, I'm very curious to see how this sensor does in the NEX 7, which
won't suffer from the light loss of a pellicle mirror. A half-stop
better, maybe?

In article , Bowser
says...
What about noise per shot, instead of peeping at the pixel level?

Noise per shot is the sum of the pixel level noises :-)

Which
camera will produce a better print at higher ISOs?

The one with the lower noise level?
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

In article , Bowser
says...
What about noise per shot, instead of peeping at the pixel level?

Noise per shot is the sum of the pixel level noises :-)

Which
camera will produce a better print at higher ISOs?

The one with the lower noise level?
--

Alfred Molon

But it's not as simple as that. You need to add the characteristics on
the human vision system into the equation, and know whether a sharper, but
noisier, image is perceived as preferable to a smoother but less noisy
image. That will depend both on viewing conditions and, I suspect, on
image content.

Bowser's point is a good one, that pixel peeping may be viewing the images
at different magnifications, and therefore not fair comparison.

Cheers,
David

"David J Taylor" wrote in message
...
Which
camera will produce a better print at higher ISOs?

The one with the lower noise level?

But it's not as simple as that. You need to add the characteristics on
the human vision system into the equation, and know whether a sharper, but
noisier, image is perceived as preferable to a smoother but less noisy
image. That will depend both on viewing conditions and, I suspect, on
image content.

Not to mention personal preference, and importantly the AMOUNT of difference
for sharpness and noise (and other parameters). If there is a small noise
difference Vs a large sharpness or other parameter difference, then the one
with the slightly lower noise may NOT be most peoples preference, just those
with a noise fixation :-)

Trevor.

"David J Taylor" wrote in
:

In article , Bowser
says...
What about noise per shot, instead of peeping at the pixel level?

Noise per shot is the sum of the pixel level noises :-)

Which
camera will produce a better print at higher ISOs?

The one with the lower noise level?
--

Alfred Molon

But it's not as simple as that. You need to add the characteristics
on the human vision system into the equation, and know whether a
sharper, but noisier, image is perceived as preferable to a smoother
but less noisy image. That will depend both on viewing conditions
and, I suspect, on image content.

Bowser's point is a good one, that pixel peeping may be viewing the
images at different magnifications, and therefore not fair comparison.

Cheers,
David


Seeing noise on an 8x10 print is annoying at anything up to 1600 ISO with
a correct exposure. If a camera produces visible noise under such
conditions, it's probably not acceptable today.

"Rich" wrote in message
...
[]
Seeing noise on an 8x10 print is annoying at anything up to 1600 ISO
with
a correct exposure. If a camera produces visible noise under such
conditions, it's probably not acceptable today.

Seeing how much noise? Under what viewing conditions? Arm's length?
Magnifying loupe? 20-inch CRT display? What camera are you seeing noise
at ISO 1600?

As I said, noise is subjective, and whilst the rule you've given may suit
you, it's not generally applicable.

David

In article , David J Taylor says...
But it's not as simple as that. You need to add the characteristics on
the human vision system into the equation, and know whether a sharper, but
noisier, image is perceived as preferable to a smoother but less noisy
image. That will depend both on viewing conditions and, I suspect, on
image content.

Interesting. First time somebody is claiming that a noisier camera is
preferable.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

"Alfred Molon" wrote in message
...
In article , David J Taylor says...
But it's not as simple as that. You need to add the characteristics on
the human vision system into the equation, and know whether a sharper,
but
noisier, image is perceived as preferable to a smoother but less noisy
image. That will depend both on viewing conditions and, I suspect, on
image content.

Interesting. First time somebody is claiming that a noisier camera is
preferable.
--

Alfred Molon

That's misrepresenting what I said, Alfred.

To clarify: depending on the viewer, image content, and viewing
conditions, a noisier but sharper image may be preferable to a less-noisy
but smoother image.

David

"Alfred Molon" wrote in message
...
In article , David J Taylor says...
But it's not as simple as that. You need to add the characteristics on
the human vision system into the equation, and know whether a sharper,
but
noisier, image is perceived as preferable to a smoother but less noisy
image. That will depend both on viewing conditions and, I suspect, on
image content.

Interesting. First time somebody is claiming that a noisier camera is
preferable.

Nope, I've long said there are MANY factors that need to be considered for
each image. Concentrating *solely* on noise, is just as stupid as
concentrating solely on the number of pixels! And I know people who shoot
nothing but Jpeg and still argue about camera noise. Pretty pointless if you
are throwing away almost half the bits to start with IMO.

Trevor.

In article , David J Taylor says...

To clarify: depending on the viewer, image content, and viewing
conditions, a noisier but sharper image may be preferable to a less-noisy
but smoother image.

Ok, but in this case the Panasonic image is less noisy but as sharp as
the Sony image. Therefore the Panasonic image is better.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site