Europeans are stupid

Alfred Molon wrote:
What would these social programs be? By the way, health care in Europe
costs far less than in the USA.


That's easy when you pay more than 50% in income taxes, and VAT on top
of that. There is no such thing as "free".

Mort Linder

On 2016-10-07 15:17:45 +0000, Whisky-dave said:

On Friday, 7 October 2016 14:41:03 UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Fri, 7 Oct 2016 08:01:26 +0200, Alfred Molon
wrote:

In article , Alan Browne
says...
So that's a mere $177 (12.6%) more in Europe. That is accounted for by
the higher operating costs in Europe due to social programs, etc. that
drive up the cost of employing people.

What would these social programs be? By the way, health care in Europe
costs far less than in the USA.

Does it? To whom? A company's higher operating costs are based on
what they have to absorb in costs. If taxes, which subsidize health
care and other social programs to the public, must absorbed then
Alan's statement is true.

In the UK, the worker has far more benefits like extended paid
vacation ("holiday", to them) days off, and that is a social program
that increases the operating cost of a company.
I was told by my amrican flatmate that americans donlt really have
holidays over two weeks which is why they donlt travel much outside of
the US generally speaking they jump in a car and drive 10 hours or get
the plane.

That is a generalization, vacation and leave varies depending on
industry, employer, employment agreement, and employment contract, and
union bargaining agreements. Personally, when I was working, I was in a
position to take 4 weeks per year, and I could accumulate leave credits
so that some years I could take 6 weeks, but we had a pretty good
bargaining agreement with the State of California.

She was also suprised that IO could put a bell push on a door saying
wow that's clever we'd get a man in to do that. One lived in LA the
other hollywood not sure if that counts as LA too.

It seems your flatmate was a know nothing airhead.
....and Hollywood is part of L.A.. Take a look at a map sometime.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2016-10-07 10:41, Savageduck wrote:
On 2016-10-07 14:28:49 +0000, Alan Browne

The flyover states are rife with medium and large sized company
operations for many reasons but also because real estate is dirt cheap
and labour is less expensive than on the coasts or NE.

Example: Caterpillar is in Peoria, IL. (Founded: California). $47B
revenue. 15,000 employees in the Peoria area.

John Deere in Moline, IL, is only a little smaller ($38B).

etc.

On average, I'd wager, that installation costs are lower in the US
than in Europe. Not just because of pop. density, but also because of
regulation. Despite these things, Europe has a pretty resilient and
vibrant economy (current doldrums notwithstanding).

OK! In terms of property costs, including residential rental, I have a
jaundiced California eye. ...and I am not even thinking of the out of
control property markets such as the one in San Francisco and the Bay area.

You should visit America some day!!!


--
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
-Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.

On 2016-10-07 11:26, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Fri, 7 Oct 2016 10:28:49 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2016-10-07 10:09, Savageduck wrote:
On 2016-10-07 09:22:16 +0000, "tim..." said:


"Alfred Molon" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Alan Browne
says...
So that's a mere $177 (12.6%) more in Europe. That is accounted for by
the higher operating costs in Europe due to social programs, etc. that
drive up the cost of employing people.

What would these social programs be?

"workers rights"

dunno if it is still like this, but in the US you can be told not to
come back to work tomorrow, for no reason, with zero compensation

That depends on the State and the industry.

property rental costs are much much lower in the US than Europe -
that's just a function of them having lower population density

Where did you get that hare-brained idea?

The flyover states are rife with medium and large sized company
operations for many reasons but also because real estate is dirt cheap
and labour is less expensive than on the coasts or NE.

Not to mention construction costs. Cheap property means horizontal
construction, and that's cheaper than vertical construction.

Good point.

How's the blow? I just read that there are about 600K customers at
present w/o power in FL. Hilary's fault, to be sure.

--
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
-Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.

On 2016-10-07 15:30:56 +0000, Alan Browne
said:

On 2016-10-07 10:41, Savageduck wrote:
On 2016-10-07 14:28:49 +0000, Alan Browne

The flyover states are rife with medium and large sized company
operations for many reasons but also because real estate is dirt cheap
and labour is less expensive than on the coasts or NE.

Example: Caterpillar is in Peoria, IL. (Founded: California). $47B
revenue. 15,000 employees in the Peoria area.

John Deere in Moline, IL, is only a little smaller ($38B).

etc.

On average, I'd wager, that installation costs are lower in the US
than in Europe. Not just because of pop. density, but also because of
regulation. Despite these things, Europe has a pretty resilient and
vibrant economy (current doldrums notwithstanding).

OK! In terms of property costs, including residential rental, I have a
jaundiced California eye. ...and I am not even thinking of the out of
control property markets such as the one in San Francisco and the Bay area.

You should visit America some day!!!

With family and friends in Georgia, Tennessee, North Carolina, and
Upstate NY, I do.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2016-10-07 15:55:35 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

On Fri, 7 Oct 2016 08:30:08 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2016-10-07 15:17:45 +0000, Whisky-dave said:

On Friday, 7 October 2016 14:41:03 UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Fri, 7 Oct 2016 08:01:26 +0200, Alfred Molon
wrote:

In article , Alan Browne
says...
So that's a mere $177 (12.6%) more in Europe. That is accounted for by
the higher operating costs in Europe due to social programs, etc. that
drive up the cost of employing people.

What would these social programs be? By the way, health care in Europe
costs far less than in the USA.

Does it? To whom? A company's higher operating costs are based on
what they have to absorb in costs. If taxes, which subsidize health
care and other social programs to the public, must absorbed then
Alan's statement is true.

In the UK, the worker has far more benefits like extended paid
vacation ("holiday", to them) days off, and that is a social program
that increases the operating cost of a company.
I was told by my amrican flatmate that americans donlt really have
holidays over two weeks which is why they donlt travel much outside of
the US generally speaking they jump in a car and drive 10 hours or get
the plane.

That is a generalization, vacation and leave varies depending on
industry, employer, employment agreement, and employment contract, and
union bargaining agreements. Personally, when I was working, I was in a
position to take 4 weeks per year, and I could accumulate leave credits
so that some years I could take 6 weeks, but we had a pretty good
bargaining agreement with the State of California.

She was also suprised that IO could put a bell push on a door saying
wow that's clever we'd get a man in to do that. One lived in LA the
other hollywood not sure if that counts as LA too.

It seems your flatmate was a know nothing airhead.
...and Hollywood is part of L.A.. Take a look at a map sometime.

He may be thinking of Hollywood, Florida. That Hollywood is in the
news because Matthew has visited that part of the map.

Of course! The flat Hollywood vs. the Hollywood hills.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2016-10-07 11:17, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 7 October 2016 14:41:03 UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Fri, 7 Oct 2016 08:01:26 +0200, Alfred Molon
wrote:

In article , Alan
Browne says...
So that's a mere $177 (12.6%) more in Europe. That is
accounted for by the higher operating costs in Europe due to
social programs, etc. that drive up the cost of employing
people.

What would these social programs be? By the way, health care in
Europe costs far less than in the USA.

Does it? To whom? A company's higher operating costs are based
on what they have to absorb in costs. If taxes, which subsidize
health care and other social programs to the public, must absorbed
then Alan's statement is true.

In the UK, the worker has far more benefits like extended paid
vacation ("holiday", to them) days off, and that is a social
program that increases the operating cost of a company.
I was told by my amrican flatmate that americans donlt really have
holidays over two weeks which is why they donlt travel much outside
of the US generally speaking they jump in a car and drive 10 hours or
get the plane. She was also suprised that IO could put a bell push on
a door saying wow that's clever we'd get a man in to do that. One
lived in LA the other hollywood not sure if that counts as LA too.

- Wherever I travel in the world I always run across a lot of Americans.
They are typically well to do tourists or on business (occasionally
both). Even in Cuba I met many Americans illegally vacationing there.
Crappy diving so I won't be returning.

- As others point out, other than the workaholic class, and the
"non-union" low end labourers - people in the US can usually cobble
together at least a 2 week block once per year. One that I knew knitted
together rendez-vous vacations. Him, from Orlando, would meet his
girlfriend (Chicago) in Salt Lake City at the tail end of their
respective business trips and go skiing for 9 days. Not bad when you
repeat that several times per year.

- Americans are huge home improvement / self reliant maintainers - not
all to be sure. But I think that's true in most of the world in any case.


--
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
-Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.

In article 2016100708185520614-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

Thanks for the education, now I understand why the prices are so darn
high there. Is it effective in reducing pollution? If so, I gather
it's worth the cost.

california is well known for requiring mtbe, which jacked up the price
and lined the pockets of carb, an additive which was not only *not*
effective, but reduced fuel economy (more pollutants) and caused engine
problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTBE_controversy

MTBE has been banned in California since 2004.

for good reason.

meanwhile, carb profited big time from the fiasco.

On 2016-10-07 11:53, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Fri, 7 Oct 2016 11:33:40 -0400, Alan Browne

How's the blow? I just read that there are about 600K customers at
present w/o power in FL. Hilary's fault, to be sure.

In my specific neck of the woods...not all that bad.

We had continuous heavy rain last night. I had to drain-down the pool
about 4" twice yesterday to keep it from overflowing the deck and
coming in the house.

The rain has slackened up today, but the winds are strong enough to
muss up even Trump's hair. I have a very wooded lot, and the trees
are swaying and bending in the wind. Downed limbs all over the place.

The power has gone off a couple of times, but come back on. The
coffee maker worked this morning, and - as you can see - I have
computer access.

I suppose you're far enough from the coast that it's less intense.
Centre seems happy offshore...


--
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
-Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.

On 2016-10-07 11:40, Savageduck wrote:
On 2016-10-07 15:30:56 +0000, Alan Browne

You should visit America some day!!!

With family and friends in Georgia, Tennessee, North Carolina, and
Upstate NY, I do.

Next time in upstate NY - give me a holler - I could come down at least
half way.

--
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
-Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.