Europeans are stupid

On 10/12/2016 6:13 AM, Sandman wrote:
In article 2016101122272654873-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck
wrote:

Savageduck:
Somebody has to pay, even if it is those who
actually pay taxes. There is no truly free ride.
sid:
Well of course, and as a tax payers we understand that we
are all making a contribution to the whole rather than just
looking after ourselves.
Savageduck:
...and the same is true for taxpayers in the USA, though there
are many among us who resent, and would deny welfare of any
kind, be it subsistance, medical, or even disability if it was
ever in their power to do so.
Sandman:
Sounds like the typical american, alright. Freedom, amiright?
Not quite. If you read what I said, which was not that it was an
attitude typical of Americans, but that there were some among us who
held that belief, among those, Libertarians, many, but not all
Republicans, and an astonishing number of Trumpists, who are foolish
enough to vote against their own best interests.
Yeah, but I think the rest of the world sees Americans this way. Each man for
themselves, and there is no way one American would pay extra to benefit
others. Not saying this is how it really is but it is the stereotypical
American nonetheless.

Strange how the rest of the world would see things that way since
America is one of the most charitable nation in the world.

On 10/12/2016 2:33 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 22:14:17 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

My cataract surgery was fully covered by Medicare (I am over 65) and my
Medicare supplement.
One of the significant differences between our system and some other
systems is that your surgery was most probably scheduled within a
short time after the diagnoses and recommendation for surgery. There
might have been a wait of a few weeks because the surgeon's schedule
was booked up, but there was no delay by the payee.

That would be the case for cataracts or a hip or a knee. In other
countries, the delay might be months or years because the procedure
would not be authorized by the paying agency.

The exception in the US is when the veteran needs the procedure, and
the procedure is to be done in a VA hospital. Then, the delay could
be months or years. That is one of the greatest flaws in our system.

It seems as if the VA is a hit-or-miss thing. The VA in Northport, Long
Island where my son went is horrible. He was given a prescription that
caused him to break out in a rash all over his body and it was quite
irritating and he was having breathing problems. A quick check into the
side-effects of the drug indicated that one of them was a rash and that
it could be life-threatening as it threatened his breathing passage. He
immediately went back to the VA and was told to return in a week, no
appointments were available! He went to the emergency room of a local
hospital and was treated there. About a month ago, a vet killed himself
in the parking lot when he was refused treatment after numerous
requests. He was suffering from emotional problems that they wouldn't
help with. The VA denies it but workers within the hospital confirmed
that the man made repeated attempts to get treated.

When my wife and I were in Kingsport, TN to look for a place to retire
to, there was a Freedom Flight event at the hotel where we were
staying. We spoke to a few of the older vets and they report that the
local VA there is very, very good.

On 10/12/2016 6:12 AM, Sandman wrote:
In article 201610112220408155-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2016-10-12 05:12:04 +0000, Sandman said:
Andreas Skitsnack:
Does it? To whom? A company's higher
operating costs are based on what they have to absorb in
costs. If taxes, which subsidize health care and other
social programs to the public, must absorbed then Alan's
statement is true. In the UK, the worker has far more
benefits like extended paid vacation ("holiday", to
them) days off, and that is a social program that
increases the operating cost of a company.
Sandman:
In Sweden, the VAT is 25%, which is why we have
free medical care and free schools, where student loans
are used to pay for getting an apartment rather than
tuition to get into a school. There exists private schools
obviously, but mostly only for special niches. But if you
want a masters degree in engineering and have a place to
live, you can get it for free.
PAS:
It isn't free if you're paying taxes for it.
Sandman:
Wow
PAS:
Then why do you say it's free?
Sandman:
Because I get products and services without the exchange of money.
...and for products and services you did not get, you have provided
a subsidy from your taxes and high VAT, just as some other Swedes
have subsidized all those "free" products and services you didn't
pay for.
In the end there is no free ride, regardless of where you live. The
difference is how things are paid for, but they are paid for.
We all know this, this is how taxes work. Only, medical, education and
elderly care is free in Sweden due to our taxes being higher. It's not a hard
concept really. Americans also pay taxes, just not enough to get free medical
care or education.

But you drive on your roads for "free", yet they have been paid the exact
same way. Just as most Americans wouldn't go around saying that the sidewalk
they walk is something they paid for - a Swede wouldn't say that sending
their kids to school is something they pay for.

Only someone very argumentative would post just to say "It isn't free if
you're paying taxes for it".

No, not someone who is argumentative but, rather, someone who is
pointing out the error of your statement that it's free. If someone is
paying for it, whether through taxes or other means, it's not free.
It's an easy concept to understand unless you want to be argumentative
and claim otherwise.

On 10/12/2016 4:48 AM, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 19:05:15 UTC+1, PAS wrote:
On 10/11/2016 1:46 PM, sid wrote:
PAS wrote:

On 10/7/2016 3:13 PM, Sandman wrote:
In article , PAS wrote:

Andreas Skitsnack:
Does it? To whom? A company's higher operating costs are based
on what they have to absorb in costs. If taxes, which subsidize
health care and other social programs to the public, must
absorbed then Alan's statement is true. In the UK, the worker
has far more benefits like extended paid vacation ("holiday", to
them) days off, and that is a social program that increases the
operating cost of a company.
Sandman:
In Sweden, the VAT is 25%, which is why we have free medical care
and free schools, where student loans are used to pay for getting
an apartment rather than tuition to get into a school. There
exists private schools obviously, but mostly only for special
niches. But if you want a masters degree in engineering and have a
place to live, you can get it for free.
It isn't free if you're paying taxes for it.
Wow
Then why do you say it's free?
Because it is free at point of use. It matters not if you are a taxpayer or
a non tax payer. It also matters not if you are rich or poor.

It's not free no matter how you look at it.
What is free ?

All that free stuff he claims is free that really isn't free.

In article , PAS wrote:

Sandman:
In article 201610112220408155-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck

Savageduck:
On 2016-10-12 05:12:04 +0000, Sandman said:

Andreas Skitsnack:
Does it? To whom? A company's
higher operating costs are based on what they have
to absorb in costs. If taxes, which subsidize health
care and other social programs to the public, must
absorbed then Alan's statement is true. In the UK,
the worker has far more benefits like extended paid
vacation ("holiday", to them) days off, and that is
a social program that increases the operating cost
of a company.

Sandman:
In Sweden, the VAT is 25%, which is why we
have free medical care and free schools, where student
loans are used to pay for getting an apartment rather
than tuition to get into a school. There exists
private schools obviously, but mostly only for special
niches. But if you want a masters degree in
engineering and have a place to live, you can get it
for free.

PAS:
It isn't free if you're paying taxes for it.

Sandman:
Wow

PAS:
Then why do you say it's free?

Sandman:
Because I get products and services without the
exchange of money.

Savageduck:
...and for products and services you did not get, you have
provided a subsidy from your taxes and high VAT, just as some
other Swedes have subsidized all those "free" products and
services you didn't pay for. In the end there is no free ride,
regardless of where you live. The difference is how things are
paid for, but they are paid for.

Sandman:
We all know this, this is how taxes work. Only, medical, education
and elderly care is free in Sweden due to our taxes being higher.
It's not a hard concept really. Americans also pay taxes, just not
enough to get free medical care or education.

But you drive on your roads for "free", yet they have been paid
the exact same way. Just as most Americans wouldn't go around
saying that the sidewalk they walk is something they paid for - a
Swede wouldn't say that sending their kids to school is something
they pay for.

Only someone very argumentative would post just to say "It isn't
free if you're paying taxes for it".

No, not someone who is argumentative but, rather, someone who is
pointing out the error of your statement that it's free.

Haha

--
Sandman

On 10/13/2016 9:51 AM, Sandman wrote:
In article , PAS wrote:

Sandman:
In article 201610112220408155-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck
Savageduck:
On 2016-10-12 05:12:04 +0000, Sandman said:
Andreas Skitsnack:
Does it? To whom? A company's
higher operating costs are based on what they have
to absorb in costs. If taxes, which subsidize health
care and other social programs to the public, must
absorbed then Alan's statement is true. In the UK,
the worker has far more benefits like extended paid
vacation ("holiday", to them) days off, and that is
a social program that increases the operating cost
of a company.
Sandman:
In Sweden, the VAT is 25%, which is why we
have free medical care and free schools, where student
loans are used to pay for getting an apartment rather
than tuition to get into a school. There exists
private schools obviously, but mostly only for special
niches. But if you want a masters degree in
engineering and have a place to live, you can get it
for free.
PAS:
It isn't free if you're paying taxes for it.
Sandman:
Wow
PAS:
Then why do you say it's free?
Sandman:
Because I get products and services without the
exchange of money.
Savageduck:
...and for products and services you did not get, you have
provided a subsidy from your taxes and high VAT, just as some
other Swedes have subsidized all those "free" products and
services you didn't pay for. In the end there is no free ride,
regardless of where you live. The difference is how things are
paid for, but they are paid for.
Sandman:
We all know this, this is how taxes work. Only, medical, education
and elderly care is free in Sweden due to our taxes being higher.
It's not a hard concept really. Americans also pay taxes, just not
enough to get free medical care or education.
But you drive on your roads for "free", yet they have been paid
the exact same way. Just as most Americans wouldn't go around
saying that the sidewalk they walk is something they paid for - a
Swede wouldn't say that sending their kids to school is something
they pay for.
Only someone very argumentative would post just to say "It isn't
free if you're paying taxes for it".
No, not someone who is argumentative but, rather, someone who is
pointing out the error of your statement that it's free.
Haha

I'm glad you find humor in your erroneous statement.

PAS wrote:

Strange how the rest of the world would see things that way since
America is one of the most charitable nation in the world.

Hallelujah, here comes the collection plate!

--
sid

In article , PAS wrote:

Andreas Skitsnack:
Does it? To whom? A company's
higher operating costs are based on what they
have to absorb in costs. If taxes, which
subsidize health care and other social programs
to the public, must absorbed then Alan's
statement is true. In the UK, the worker has far
more benefits like extended paid vacation
("holiday", to them) days off, and that is a
social program that increases the operating cost
of a company.

Sandman:
In Sweden, the VAT is 25%, which is why
we have free medical care and free schools, where
student loans are used to pay for getting an
apartment rather than tuition to get into a
school. There exists private schools obviously,
but mostly only for special niches. But if you
want a masters degree in engineering and have a
place to live, you can get it for free.

PAS:
It isn't free if you're paying taxes for it.

Sandman:
Wow

PAS:
Then why do you say it's free?

Sandman:
Because I get products and services without the
exchange of money.

Savageduck:
...and for products and services you did not
get, you have provided a subsidy from your taxes and high
VAT, just as some other Swedes have subsidized all those
"free" products and services you didn't pay for. In the end
there is no free ride, regardless of where you live. The
difference is how things are paid for, but they are paid
for.

Sandman:
We all know this, this is how taxes work. Only,
medical, education and elderly care is free in Sweden due to
our taxes being higher. It's not a hard concept really.
Americans also pay taxes, just not enough to get free medical
care or education. But you drive on your roads for "free", yet
they have been paid the exact same way. Just as most Americans
wouldn't go around saying that the sidewalk they walk is
something they paid for - a Swede wouldn't say that sending
their kids to school is something they pay for. Only someone
very argumentative would post just to say "It isn't free if
you're paying taxes for it".

PAS:
No, not someone who is argumentative but, rather, someone who is
pointing out the error of your statement that it's free.

Sandman:
Haha

I'm glad you find humor in your erroneous statement.

Hahaha!

--
Sandman