still cameras with HD video?

Hi all. I hope somebody sees this post among all the spam!

A few months ago I bought a Canon S3 IS camera. I'm quite pleased with
it, and make extensive use of it. Particularly the movie mode.

However, being the kind of inveterate shopper that I am, that doesn't
stop me looking around and thinking at what level of new specification
and price would be the trigger to upgrade.

I'm interested by the new still cameras with HD video. The first one I
noticed was the Samsung NV24, with 720p HD video. However, the zoom
is only 3.6x. And the sample shots I've seen online haven't inspired
me. The relatively small sensor S3 is a bit noisy (I knew this when I
bought), so a lower noise level is also something I'd be looking for
in an upgrade.

Given that I don't intend to upgrade immediately, I was thinking of
making 1080p/30fps/stereo sound a prerequisite of an upgrade. But I'm
surprised that all the HD video still cameras I've found so far have
been low zoom. Is there a reason for this. When filming with my S3, I
make extremely frequent use of the full range of optical zoom (12x
optical), and would feel very restricted with a lesser zoom.

So, if I made my requirements for upgrade to be:

1] 1080p HD video/stereo sound. Better compression options for movie
than S3's motion jpeg. Though currently
I'm OK for recording time on full quality with my 8gig of cards I
carry around.
2] 12x optical zoom
3] (Note, not too worried about megapixels as current cameras fulfill
my needs, but lower noise than the S3 and as good a lens)
4] Optical image stabiliser as good or better than S3.
5] Price, approx £200 (or less obviously, provided lens quality etc is
competitive with the S3)

Do people think I'm being reasonable in my expectations, and will find
the opportunity to upgrade without waiting 10 years? Apart from the
NV24 and the Panasonic FX35, what other still cameras with HD video
are around?

By the way, from this post it may seem that I would be better off with
a video camera! However, I do make frequent use of still shots, even
while filming video. (I'm filming "holiday snaps", not professional
video). I find the balance between video and still camera functions
(and sound recording) of the Canon S3 about optimal for my needs. So
something that has about the same balance would IMHO be ideal. And
this suggests to me still camera (+video) instead of video camera
(+stills).

wrote in message news:a14f7a09-e44c-4728-
...
Hi all. I hope somebody sees this post among all the spam!

A few months ago I bought a Canon S3 IS camera. I'm quite pleased with
it, and make extensive use of it. Particularly the movie mode.

However, being the kind of inveterate shopper that I am, that doesn't
stop me looking around and thinking at what level of new specification
and price would be the trigger to upgrade.

I'm interested by the new still cameras with HD video. The first one I
noticed was the Samsung NV24, with 720p HD video. However, the zoom
is only 3.6x. And the sample shots I've seen online haven't inspired
me. The relatively small sensor S3 is a bit noisy (I knew this when I
bought), so a lower noise level is also something I'd be looking for
in an upgrade.

Given that I don't intend to upgrade immediately, I was thinking of
making 1080p/30fps/stereo sound a prerequisite of an upgrade. But I'm
surprised that all the HD video still cameras I've found so far have
been low zoom. Is there a reason for this. When filming with my S3, I
make extremely frequent use of the full range of optical zoom (12x
optical), and would feel very restricted with a lesser zoom.

So, if I made my requirements for upgrade to be:

1] 1080p HD video/stereo sound. Better compression options for movie
than S3's motion jpeg. Though currently
I'm OK for recording time on full quality with my 8gig of cards I
carry around.
2] 12x optical zoom
3] (Note, not too worried about megapixels as current cameras fulfill
my needs, but lower noise than the S3 and as good a lens)
4] Optical image stabiliser as good or better than S3.
5] Price, approx £200 (or less obviously, provided lens quality etc is
competitive with the S3)

Do people think I'm being reasonable in my expectations, and will find
the opportunity to upgrade without waiting 10 years? Apart from the
NV24 and the Panasonic FX35, what other still cameras with HD video
are around?

By the way, from this post it may seem that I would be better off with
a video camera! However, I do make frequent use of still shots, even
while filming video. (I'm filming "holiday snaps", not professional
video). I find the balance between video and still camera functions
(and sound recording) of the Canon S3 about optimal for my needs. So
something that has about the same balance would IMHO be ideal. And
this suggests to me still camera (+video) instead of video camera
(+stills).

Unfortunately I suspect that, at least for the next few years, your list of
desires would be more likely to be found on a vid camera with still mode
than on a still camera with video. Eventually it will happen, but at the
moment still camera video is more concerned with just making any video. On
the other hand Vidcams are pushing for HD capabilities and adding still as
an option.

Since you seem to be willing to wait, you may want to just keep your eyes
open. With the transfer to digital TV next year there will be more of a
market for cameras that will make use of the different screen dimensions and
resolutions. This will filter into the P&S camera market a year or so later
(by my estimate).

Now for my standard response (feel free to disagree or ignore at will). A
still camera is made to take still photos and any video capability will
always lag behind the vid capabilities of a vid camera. Just as the still
photo capabilities on a vid cam will always lag behind a still camera. It's
a case that the primary design function will always get the best design
capabilities while a secondary function will always be an add on. The design
needs of the two media are different enough that something always has to be
"made to fit". And any device that tries to be equally good at both
functions will not be the best possible of either.

JMHO

Randy

wrote in message
...
Hi all. I hope somebody sees this post among all the spam!

A few months ago I bought a Canon S3 IS camera. I'm quite pleased with
it, and make extensive use of it. Particularly the movie mode.

However, being the kind of inveterate shopper that I am, that doesn't
stop me looking around and thinking at what level of new specification
and price would be the trigger to upgrade.

I'm interested by the new still cameras with HD video. The first one I
noticed was the Samsung NV24, with 720p HD video. However, the zoom
is only 3.6x. And the sample shots I've seen online haven't inspired
me. The relatively small sensor S3 is a bit noisy (I knew this when I
bought), so a lower noise level is also something I'd be looking for
in an upgrade.

Given that I don't intend to upgrade immediately, I was thinking of
making 1080p/30fps/stereo sound a prerequisite of an upgrade. But I'm
surprised that all the HD video still cameras I've found so far have
been low zoom. Is there a reason for this. When filming with my S3, I
make extremely frequent use of the full range of optical zoom (12x
optical), and would feel very restricted with a lesser zoom.

So, if I made my requirements for upgrade to be:

1] 1080p HD video/stereo sound. Better compression options for movie
than S3's motion jpeg. Though currently
I'm OK for recording time on full quality with my 8gig of cards I
carry around.
2] 12x optical zoom
3] (Note, not too worried about megapixels as current cameras fulfill
my needs, but lower noise than the S3 and as good a lens)
4] Optical image stabiliser as good or better than S3.
5] Price, approx £200 (or less obviously, provided lens quality etc is
competitive with the S3)

Do people think I'm being reasonable in my expectations, and will find
the opportunity to upgrade without waiting 10 years? Apart from the
NV24 and the Panasonic FX35, what other still cameras with HD video
are around?

By the way, from this post it may seem that I would be better off with
a video camera! However, I do make frequent use of still shots, even
while filming video. (I'm filming "holiday snaps", not professional
video). I find the balance between video and still camera functions
(and sound recording) of the Canon S3 about optimal for my needs. So
something that has about the same balance would IMHO be ideal. And
this suggests to me still camera (+video) instead of video camera
(+stills).


I think you may find that the new Panasonic TZ5 may do what you want.

NM

Thanks for the comments.

I went through the whole still camera versus video camera thing when I
bought the Canon. I decided that I was prepared to compromise more on
the video side, given the choices I had for the amount I was prepared
to spend. But given what I now have, improvements in the video side
are more likely to get me to buy another camera than improvements in
the still camera side.

The Panasonic LZ5 is very close to what I hope to get. Though, it's
720p versus the 1080p I wanted. But I'm sure that'll come in the next
product iteration or two.

Ï "Randy Berbaum" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...

wrote in message news:a14f7a09-e44c-4728-
...
Hi all. I hope somebody sees this post among all the spam!

A few months ago I bought a Canon S3 IS camera. I'm quite pleased with
it, and make extensive use of it. Particularly the movie mode.

However, being the kind of inveterate shopper that I am, that doesn't
stop me looking around and thinking at what level of new specification
and price would be the trigger to upgrade.

I'm interested by the new still cameras with HD video. The first one I
noticed was the Samsung NV24, with 720p HD video. However, the zoom
is only 3.6x. And the sample shots I've seen online haven't inspired
me. The relatively small sensor S3 is a bit noisy (I knew this when I
bought), so a lower noise level is also something I'd be looking for
in an upgrade.

Given that I don't intend to upgrade immediately, I was thinking of
making 1080p/30fps/stereo sound a prerequisite of an upgrade. But I'm
surprised that all the HD video still cameras I've found so far have
been low zoom. Is there a reason for this. When filming with my S3, I
make extremely frequent use of the full range of optical zoom (12x
optical), and would feel very restricted with a lesser zoom.

So, if I made my requirements for upgrade to be:

1] 1080p HD video/stereo sound. Better compression options for movie
than S3's motion jpeg. Though currently
I'm OK for recording time on full quality with my 8gig of cards I
carry around.
2] 12x optical zoom
3] (Note, not too worried about megapixels as current cameras fulfill
my needs, but lower noise than the S3 and as good a lens)
4] Optical image stabiliser as good or better than S3.
5] Price, approx £200 (or less obviously, provided lens quality etc is
competitive with the S3)

Do people think I'm being reasonable in my expectations, and will find
the opportunity to upgrade without waiting 10 years? Apart from the
NV24 and the Panasonic FX35, what other still cameras with HD video
are around?

By the way, from this post it may seem that I would be better off with
a video camera! However, I do make frequent use of still shots, even
while filming video. (I'm filming "holiday snaps", not professional
video). I find the balance between video and still camera functions
(and sound recording) of the Canon S3 about optimal for my needs. So
something that has about the same balance would IMHO be ideal. And
this suggests to me still camera (+video) instead of video camera
(+stills).

Unfortunately I suspect that, at least for the next few years, your list
of
desires would be more likely to be found on a vid camera with still mode
than on a still camera with video. Eventually it will happen, but at the
moment still camera video is more concerned with just making any video. On
the other hand Vidcams are pushing for HD capabilities and adding still as
an option.

Since you seem to be willing to wait, you may want to just keep your eyes
open. With the transfer to digital TV next year there will be more of a
market for cameras that will make use of the different screen dimensions
and
resolutions. This will filter into the P&S camera market a year or so
later
(by my estimate).

Now for my standard response (feel free to disagree or ignore at will). A
still camera is made to take still photos and any video capability will
always lag behind the vid capabilities of a vid camera. Just as the still
photo capabilities on a vid cam will always lag behind a still camera.
It's
a case that the primary design function will always get the best design
capabilities while a secondary function will always be an add on. The
design
needs of the two media are different enough that something always has to
be
"made to fit". And any device that tries to be equally good at both
functions will not be the best possible of either.

I agree absolutely. I have both a videocamera (Sony dcr hc-32e) mini dv and
a still camera nytech (www.nytech.de). Both are very small, and I use each
when appropriate. I have never used the still capability of the camcorder
(only 640X480) and neither the video mode of the still camera. A mini dv
tape can old up to 14 GB, and there are even 80 min tapes. They are
intraframe compressed in the DV-25 codec, and the editing and authoring of
the dvd is fun. The sound of the camcorder is stereo, cd quality. Of course,
the only real handicap is you can't use both at one moment, unless you are
an octopus:-)



--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
hordad AT otenet DOT gr

In article
Kia Ora Ross

I think your last paragraph holds your answer.
I took the plunge and bought a Sony HDR- UX7E Handycam.
It uses 6.1 Megapixels for both Still & Movie and 10x Optical Zoom plus
Digital
Still pics are readily available while videoing for up to 4 shots per
scene & limited only by card capacity in still mode.
The results are better than my still Ricoh Caplio R3 which I still use
as it fits in my pocket!
As the Sony records directly to a Mini DVD it can play immediately onto
a TV.
It barely fits in my pocket, & I find that is the only drawback.
Be interested what you finally decide upon!
Mac



,
says...


Hi all. I hope somebody sees this post among all the spam!

A few months ago I bought a Canon S3 IS camera. I'm quite pleased with
it, and make extensive use of it. Particularly the movie mode.

However, being the kind of inveterate shopper that I am, that doesn't
stop me looking around and thinking at what level of new specification
and price would be the trigger to upgrade.

I'm interested by the new still cameras with HD video. The first one I
noticed was the Samsung NV24, with 720p HD video. However, the zoom
is only 3.6x. And the sample shots I've seen online haven't inspired
me. The relatively small sensor S3 is a bit noisy (I knew this when I
bought), so a lower noise level is also something I'd be looking for
in an upgrade.

Given that I don't intend to upgrade immediately, I was thinking of
making 1080p/30fps/stereo sound a prerequisite of an upgrade. But I'm
surprised that all the HD video still cameras I've found so far have
been low zoom. Is there a reason for this. When filming with my S3, I
make extremely frequent use of the full range of optical zoom (12x
optical), and would feel very restricted with a lesser zoom.

So, if I made my requirements for upgrade to be:

1] 1080p HD video/stereo sound. Better compression options for movie
than S3's motion jpeg. Though currently
I'm OK for recording time on full quality with my 8gig of cards I
carry around.
2] 12x optical zoom
3] (Note, not too worried about megapixels as current cameras fulfill
my needs, but lower noise than the S3 and as good a lens)
4] Optical image stabiliser as good or better than S3.
5] Price, approx £200 (or less obviously, provided lens quality etc is
competitive with the S3)

Do people think I'm being reasonable in my expectations, and will find
the opportunity to upgrade without waiting 10 years? Apart from the
NV24 and the Panasonic FX35, what other still cameras with HD video
are around?

By the way, from this post it may seem that I would be better off with
a video camera! However, I do make frequent use of still shots, even
while filming video. (I'm filming "holiday snaps", not professional
video). I find the balance between video and still camera functions
(and sound recording) of the Canon S3 about optimal for my needs. So
something that has about the same balance would IMHO be ideal. And
this suggests to me still camera (+video) instead of video camera
(+stills).

On Apr 13, 12:06 am, Mac Lynch wrote:
In article
Kia Ora Ross

I think your last paragraph holds your answer.
I took the plunge and bought a Sony HDR- UX7E Handycam.
It uses 6.1 Megapixels for both Still & Movie and 10x Optical Zoom plus
Digital
Still pics are readily available while videoing for up to 4 shots per
scene & limited only by card capacity in still mode.
The results are better than my still Ricoh Caplio R3 which I still use
as it fits in my pocket!
As the Sony records directly to a Mini DVD it can play immediately onto
a TV.
It barely fits in my pocket, & I find that is the only drawback.
Be interested what you finally decide upon!
Mac

Well, you may have to wait a long time to see what I finally decide
upon. I am mere ruminating on what performance I'd need to see for
what price before I consider it worthwhile upgrading.

The Sony you mention is over £700 on Amazon. So while it has most of
the my requirements for an upgrade, it's more than I'm prepared to
spend on my next upgrade. The Panasonic Lumix LZ5 isn't as good as the
Sony for video (no 5.1 channel sound, 720p rather than 1080i HD), but
it's an awful lot cheaper. And while I haven't got the time to go
through the manual for the Sony, it doesn't seem to have anything like
the photo functions that the Panasonic (or even my current Canon) has.

So I'm not yet convinced that I'll get what I want from the video
side, rather than the still camera side of the equation.

wrote:

Hi all. I hope somebody sees this post among all the spam!

A few months ago I bought a Canon S3 IS camera. I'm quite pleased with
it, and make extensive use of it. Particularly the movie mode.

However, being the kind of inveterate shopper that I am, that doesn't
stop me looking around and thinking at what level of new specification
and price would be the trigger to upgrade.

edited for brevity

So, if I made my requirements for upgrade to be:

1] 1080p HD video/stereo sound. Better compression options for movie
than S3's motion jpeg. Though currently
I'm OK for recording time on full quality with my 8gig of cards I
carry around.
2] 12x optical zoom
3] (Note, not too worried about megapixels as current cameras fulfill
my needs, but lower noise than the S3 and as good a lens)
4] Optical image stabiliser as good or better than S3.
5] Price, approx £200 (or less obviously, provided lens quality etc is
competitive with the S3)

edited

Hello, Ross:

Kodak's new EasyShare Z1012 is "expected to ship by Apr. 28," according to
the manufacturer, with a suggested retail price of $299.95 USD.

Further information:

EASYSHARE Z1012 IS - Overview
http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=12454&pq-locale=en_US

EASYSHARE Z1012 IS - Features and Benefits
http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=12455&pq-locale=en_US

EASYSHARE Z1012 IS - Specifications
http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=12456&pq-locale=en_US

Here are the camera's pertinent specs (for your own needs):

STANDARD FEATURES -

Sensor type - 1/2.33 in. CCD

Effective pixels - 10.1 MP (3672 × 2748)

Lens - 36–396 mm (35 mm equiv.) f/2.8–4.8 SCHNEIDER-KREUZNACH VARIOGON Lens

Zoom - 12X optical, 5X advanced digital, total zoom range 60X

Image stabilizer - optical

Shutter speed - 1/30–1/32000 sec.

Viewfinder - high resolution (202k pixels) electronic, 100% field of view

Monitor - 2.5 in. (6.4 cm) high resolution (230k pixels) wide angle of view
indoor/outdoor color TFT display, 5 level brightness adjustments

Storage - 32 MB internal memory* available, SDHC/SD card expansion slot

VIDEO -

Format - QUICKTIME MPEG 4 with stereo sound

Quality - HD (1280 × 720) at 30 fps

VGA (640 × 480) at 30 fps

QVGA (320 × 240) at 30 fps

Length - HD: continuous up to 29 min. based on memory capacity
VGA, QVGA: continuous up to 80 min. based on memory capacity

Review options - play, rewind, pause, fast forward and rewind, forward and
rewind by frame, multi-up, slideshow, multi-field search, bookmarks

Editing - make picture from video (4, 9, 16-up), trim, video bookmarking

File management - delete, undo delete, copy, protect, text tagging

Summing up, the Z1012 IS looks like a real winner, and has everything you
want; I'm not sure any other current model meets all of your requirements,
for that matter.

Good luck!


Cordially,
John Turco