Photographing children

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Dwight Stewart writes:

If nobody argues in defense of photography, eventually all photography
will be illegal.


Hor****. Just perverted photography should be illegal.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Ron Hunter writes:

IF I take 10 pictures of the same girl, all with panties exposed, with
only that exposure in the frame, then there is probably a real problem,
and most parents would consider this evidence of improper intentions.

"Improper intentions"? Exactly what harm is done by this (assuming that
the child is not recognizable)?


Feeding the lester is a problem. Better to castrate.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Jer wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote:

Owamanga writes:


I guess this means I'm uncomfortable with any law which isn't directly
preventing the problem. The problem isn't people taking or trading
photos of girls panties. The problem is molesters, rapists and
murderers - and unless there is a 100% correlation between the two
groups (which there isn't) I don't think it's justified.




Exactly.


Rape is illegal, yet adult porn isn't.
Sex with a child is illegal, and so is child porn.

Why the difference? Is this just a legal 'missing consent' thing or
is it something that society actually requires?




The difference is that the laws affecting children are the imposition of
an arbitrary moral code by one party upon another, even though they are
passed under the guise of "protection" for children.

Rape laws protect people against sex without consent, as do other laws
forbidding certain actions without the consent of all participating
parties. But statutory rape laws and (to some extent) child porn laws
have nothing to do with consent or harm, and everything to do with the
imposition of an arbitrary moral code.

All the abuses of children that are undertaken to produce child
pornography are _already_ illegal even without child porn laws. And
statutory rape laws that ignore the consent of people under a certain
age are victimless, morality-based crimes, in which nobody is harmed at
all.


Without commenting on your last paragraph, it is nevertheless illegal
in many states to have ANY sexual contact with children. The
penalties are sometimes without any reasonable, or rational,
relationship to the nature, or severity of the crime. A recent TV
show had a guy who has plea-bargained for a 4 year sentence for
murder, yet when he was found to have had sex with a 12 year old girl
(she LOOKED 16), he found that there was a mandatory life without
parole for that crime. Sigh.




Again, I find myself wishing I could remember more details about the
case I'm thinking of. But if this is the same case, I recall the reason
for the life without parole sentence was because the perp not only had
been found guilty of murder, it was subsequently learned he also had
been sexually engaged with a female of minority age, and during that
investigation, it was also learned he had possession of photos of other
minoirty aged females whom they suspected he had sex with, but those
suspicions remained unproven. However, they were able to identify at
least one female in a photo and were also able to certify the person to
have been underage at the time the photo was taken, and that he was
aware of the photo's nature when his possession of it began. Three
felony convictions = one full monte. insert sound of judicial gavel
when appropriately used

The implication was that under Nevada law, ANYONE who is convicted of
having sex with a child under 14 gets automatic, life without parole.
But then that was TV. Don't know if that accurately reflects Nevada law.


--
Ron Hunter

Jer wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:

[....]

Add to that a pervasive paranoia in society these days about the
subject, and even discussing it is often considered proof of 'evil
thoughts'.



Did the Taliban recently relocate nearby?


We won the war, they won the peace.


--
Ron Hunter

Unspam wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:35:49 GMT, Unspam wrote:



Unspam wrote:


Apparently a young boy was impaled on some railing when he fell off
his bike, I think it may have been rocket powered. Oh, he was being
followed by a police car at the time, but it seems that was not an
issue.

Apparently you are talking of the Redfern Riots, not the Westie ones.
Totally different.
BTW in both instances the kids were doing the wrong thing. Hardly an
instance of police corruption.
However as this has nothing to do with cameras, and it seems people in other
countries know more of what goes on here, than those of us who live here, I
guess it's time to let this particular part of the thread die.



Sorry, I didn't realise a child riding a bike carried a death penalty.

Couild you elaborate on this "death penalty" for riding a bike thing?
Or are you saying that the child fell off hs bike while being chased
by the police?



Yes, he fell off his bike and was impaled on 6ft high railings while being
pursued by a police car, but they deny they had anything to do with it. He
was an Aboriginal, they were not.

And his race makes it ok somehow? Or makes it a foregone conclusion
that the police tossed him up on the railing? Ever see what happens to
a rider when he hits something at 30 mph? He goes sailing. It's rather
hard at that point to pick a good landing site.


--
Ron Hunter

Barbara wrote:
retoohs wrote:


Obviously different cases as this was a friend of my brothers with his
kids but I'm glad you pointed out another case as it shows it is
happening and no I won't name my brothers friend as he was totally
innocent and doesn't need the worldwide exposure but I'll tell you
where it happened, Caboulture Markets. There were some swings and
playground set up where they run the horses. Now please get your
facts straight.



Funny thing but the Maroochydore police know nothing about the case you are
talking about. There has only been one arrest in Qld along the lines you are
talking about and that's the one I mentioned.
You wouldn't be stretching the truth a little to further your obvious
hatred for the police, now would you?




Barbara I've no hate towards police, I party with some of the best and
they always have the best drugs VBG (in truth the only ones I drink
with are ex coppers), just bent ones and Australia and in particular
Queensland is full of them. I know not all are but there are many. I
notice you didn't deny the story about NSW most honoured cop running all
the planes of heroin into Sydney and arranging all those bank and
payroll robberies or North Queensland Police getting caught growing
large dope crops. Do you really think this is an honest police system.
Wake up. Don't worry we get bent coppers here too, just not on the scale
you do in Oz. And as if the Maroochydore coppers are going to admit to
such inexcusable behaviour. Also there are probably 10-20 police
stations between Caboulture and Maroochydore, whats it got to do with
them. The Caboulture or Morayfield or one of the local police stations
would have dealt with it. My brother lives next to a policeman in
Burpengarry and he knows all about it (nice guy too, he is trying to
keep my mother off the roads on her scooter but never books her and he
killed his rooster when I stayed there as it kept my wife awake). Or
maybe you work there and are another bent copper (or is it hubby). I'll
state another case of your sick Queensland pigs thats in this mornings
Southland Times about a north Queensland cop that admitted in court he
was quite willing to pull his gun and shoot a kid last November 26th
that he THOUGHT was the ringleader of a riot. At least in New Zealand we
train our police to go in with riot gear on and quell the riot as a
controlled unit, not pull out their shooters and kill our kids. I've
seen the footage of the cops in Sydneys West trying to do this but they
were hopeless, maybe they need to study footage of the riots here when
South Africa Springboks toured while SA still practiced apartheid and
see what real riots are and how the police dealt with it. Sure they were
accused of being heavy handed but the rioters were well organised and
wore helmets etc, and were armed with batons, baseball bats etc, it was
full on war. I know many of the rioters (Uni students protesting against
apartheid in South Africa)and they went as far as organising diversion
tactics to draw the cops away which they always fell for, it was quite
entertaining really. At the moment in Sydneys West the Police are going
around the streets at 2-3am with loud music blaring waking everyone in
the neighborhoods playing the song "Bad Boys" over and over again. To me
this is inciting the youth to retaliate. No wonder everytime one is
interviewed now he or she's usual response is "Coppers Come Out and
Play". If you don't believe any of this get your mole at Maroochydore
Cop Shop to verify it or do a Google, its on our news every night at the
moment and we have our own news team over there. Only casualty for our
news team so far is a cameraman with a broken arm.
Now back to your accusation I'm stretching the truth, don't call me a
liar when YOU don't have the facts and thanks for backing up my story
with another case.

Alan

Barbara wrote:
retoohs wrote:


Obviously different cases as this was a friend of my brothers with his
kids but I'm glad you pointed out another case as it shows it is
happening and no I won't name my brothers friend as he was totally
innocent and doesn't need the worldwide exposure but I'll tell you
where it happened, Caboulture Markets. There were some swings and
playground set up where they run the horses. Now please get your
facts straight.



Funny thing but the Maroochydore police know nothing about the case you are
talking about. There has only been one arrest in Qld along the lines you are
talking about and that's the one I mentioned.
You wouldn't be stretching the truth a little to further your obvious
hatred for the police, now would you?




Barbara I've no hate towards police, I party with some of the best and
they always have the best drugs VBG (in truth the only ones I drink
with are ex coppers), just bent ones and Australia and in particular
Queensland is full of them. I know not all are but there are many. I
notice you didn't deny the story about NSW most honoured cop running all
the planes of heroin into Sydney and arranging all those bank and
payroll robberies or North Queensland Police getting caught growing
large dope crops. Do you really think this is an honest police system.
Wake up. Don't worry we get bent coppers here too, just not on the scale
you do in Oz. And as if the Maroochydore coppers are going to admit to
such inexcusable behaviour. Also there are probably 10-20 police
stations between Caboulture and Maroochydore, whats it got to do with
them. The Caboulture or Morayfield or one of the local police stations
would have dealt with it. My brother lives next to a policeman in
Burpengarry and he knows all about it (nice guy too, he is trying to
keep my mother off the roads on her scooter but never books her and he
killed his rooster when I stayed there as it kept my wife awake). Or
maybe you work there and are another bent copper (or is it hubby). I'll
state another case of your sick Queensland pigs thats in this mornings
Southland Times about a north Queensland cop that admitted in court he
was quite willing to pull his gun and shoot a kid last November 26th
that he THOUGHT was the ringleader of a riot. At least in New Zealand we
train our police to go in with riot gear on and quell the riot as a
controlled unit, not pull out their shooters and kill our kids. I've
seen the footage of the cops in Sydneys West trying to do this but they
were hopeless, maybe they need to study footage of the riots here when
South Africa Springboks toured while SA still practiced apartheid and
see what real riots are and how the police dealt with it. Sure they were
accused of being heavy handed but the rioters were well organised and
wore helmets etc, and were armed with batons, baseball bats etc, it was
full on war. I know many of the rioters (Uni students protesting against
apartheid in South Africa)and they went as far as organising diversion
tactics to draw the cops away which they always fell for, it was quite
entertaining really. At the moment in Sydneys West the Police are going
around the streets at 2-3am with loud music blaring waking everyone in
the neighborhoods playing the song "Bad Boys" over and over again. To me
this is inciting the youth to retaliate. No wonder everytime one is
interviewed now he or she's usual response is "Coppers Come Out and
Play". If you don't believe any of this get your mole at Maroochydore
Cop Shop to verify it or do a Google, its on our news every night at the
moment and we have our own news team over there. Only casualty for our
news team so far is a cameraman with a broken arm.
Now back to your accusation I'm stretching the truth, don't call me a
liar when YOU don't have the facts and thanks for backing up my story
with another case.

Alan

Ron Hunter wrote:
retoohs wrote:

Ron Hunter wrote:

Mike Kohary wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote:

Barbara writes:


The man was booked for taking photos of children who were *not* his
and their genitalia were showing not just their panties, that was
why he was booked.




How does that make it indecent?





Now you're just going off the deep end if you can ask such a question.

No need to answer my previous question, by the way. It's patently
obvious that you have no children of your own.

It appears that having children causes inevitable paranoia for the
parents. I guess that proves that insanity is inherited, you get it
from your children.



Try having 3 daughters, 18, 15 and 10 years old

Alan

It could be worse, the 10 year old could be 13 instead. I'll never know
how my sister survived having 4 girls in their teens at the same time...


You are right there Ron. 13-14 is the worst age I reckon. Its when the
girls think its about time to test the parents. I've come out the other
side with two of them, just one to go. :-)

Alan

retoohs wrote:

Barbara I've no hate towards police, I party with some of the best and
they always have the best drugs VBG (in truth the only ones I drink
with are ex coppers), just bent ones and Australia and in particular
Queensland is full of them.

snip total garbage by someone who twists the truth and speaks utter
garbage.

I will say this...you are either a liar or extremely deluded. Or perhaps the
TV news in your country plays the same footage over and over every night for
weeks, pretending it's news. No wonder so many of your countrymen migrate to
Australia.

The case stated in your original post did not happen, be all and end all,
except perhaps in your mind.
The case I stated, did happen and it's the only one. I will state
again....No man has been arrested in Qld for taking photos of his children
in a playground.

retoohs wrote:

Barbara I've no hate towards police, I party with some of the best and
they always have the best drugs VBG (in truth the only ones I drink
with are ex coppers), just bent ones and Australia and in particular
Queensland is full of them.

snip total garbage by someone who twists the truth and speaks utter
garbage.

I will say this...you are either a liar or extremely deluded. Or perhaps the
TV news in your country plays the same footage over and over every night for
weeks, pretending it's news. No wonder so many of your countrymen migrate to
Australia.

The case stated in your original post did not happen, be all and end all,
except perhaps in your mind.
The case I stated, did happen and it's the only one. I will state
again....No man has been arrested in Qld for taking photos of his children
in a playground.