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#1
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Nosey Clerks Turning People Into Police
This link here got me started on something about clerks turning people in
who get their film developed. Link: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/...rtnersite=espn It talks about students who painted the side of a mountain as a sort of rivalry with another neighboring school. They took photos of the event turned in the film and are now dealing with a felony because of a clerk seeing the photos and calling the police. I started thinking about how now things are touchy with regards to, say, persons photographing their kids in the tub and what not and getting in trouble with police because of lab employees assuming the worst and calling the police. With this case, if I were those Utah players, frankly I'd want to wait at the lab for the same employee to get off work, then I'd beat the **** out of him (or her) for not minding their own business. I was also thinking: if I, say, were photographing a friend's child in the tub etc and turned the photos in, I think I'd make a point of seeing who worked there--I'd look behind the counter etc--and if the police questioned me I'd have half a mind to beat the snot out of the lab employees for making a fuss. It occurs to me: these clerks need to be like the Swiss Bank people and mind their own business. People should be able to take photos of whatever in the jollies they feel like without worrying about such things. I mean, the odds that photos of someone's child of a tub being child pornography is nothing compared to the far likelier scenario of it simply being typical parents taking pictures of their typical kids, nothing. Thing is: nothing ever gets written about people getting into trouble like this having done nothing wrong--getting into trouble due to overzealous photo clerks who don't mind their own business. It occurs to me something needs to be done about this; their needs to be legal or vigelante type of justice to make these photo clerks just do their job and mind their own business--and stop causing trouble. Thoughts? LRH |
#2
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Nosey Clerks Turning People Into Police
On 10-Jun-2004, "Larry R Harrison Jr" wrote: This link here got me started on something about clerks turning people in who get their film developed. Link: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/...rtnersite=espn It talks about students who painted the side of a mountain as a sort of rivalry with another neighboring school. They took photos of the event turned in the film and are now dealing with a felony because of a clerk seeing the photos and calling the police. I started thinking about how now things are touchy with regards to, say, persons photographing their kids in the tub and what not and getting in trouble with police because of lab employees assuming the worst and calling the police. With this case, if I were those Utah players, frankly I'd want to wait at the lab for the same employee to get off work, then I'd beat the **** out of him (or her) for not minding their own business. I was also thinking: if I, say, were photographing a friend's child in the tub etc and turned the photos in, I think I'd make a point of seeing who worked there--I'd look behind the counter etc--and if the police questioned me I'd have half a mind to beat the snot out of the lab employees for making a fuss. It occurs to me: these clerks need to be like the Swiss Bank people and mind their own business. People should be able to take photos of whatever in the jollies they feel like without worrying about such things. I mean, the odds that photos of someone's child of a tub being child pornography is nothing compared to the far likelier scenario of it simply being typical parents taking pictures of their typical kids, nothing. Thing is: nothing ever gets written about people getting into trouble like this having done nothing wrong--getting into trouble due to overzealous photo clerks who don't mind their own business. It occurs to me something needs to be done about this; their needs to be legal or vigelante type of justice to make these photo clerks just do their job and mind their own business--and stop causing trouble. Thoughts? 1) I've read numerous reports of this type of problem, not just with photo clerks. 2) Beating people up is a felony and far worse than reporting suspicious photos. 3) Near here a clerk is a hero because she spotted photos of a kid with a bunch of explosives and weapons. Some think she prevented a Columbine style attack on a school. 4) The police/DA are the real problem. The clerks have little or no training. 5) People stupid enough to take pictures of themselves committing a crime shouldn't be surprised when they get reported. -- Tom Thackrey www.creative-light.com tom (at) creative (dash) light (dot) com do NOT send email to (it's reserved for spammers) |
#3
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Nosey Clerks Turning People Into Police
"Larry R Harrison Jr" wrote:
...I'd have half a mind... I think that about sums it up... |
#4
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Nosey Clerks Turning People Into Police
"Tom Thackrey" wrote in message . .. On 10-Jun-2004, "Larry R Harrison Jr" wrote: This link here got me started on something about clerks turning people in who get their film developed. Link: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/...rtnersite=espn It talks about students who painted the side of a mountain as a sort of rivalry with another neighboring school. They took photos of the event turned in the film and are now dealing with a felony because of a clerk seeing the photos and calling the police. .... Thoughts? 1) I've read numerous reports of this type of problem, not just with photo clerks. 2) Beating people up is a felony and far worse than reporting suspicious photos. 3) Near here a clerk is a hero because she spotted photos of a kid with a bunch of explosives and weapons. Some think she prevented a Columbine style attack on a school. 4) The police/DA are the real problem. The clerks have little or no training. 5) People stupid enough to take pictures of themselves committing a crime shouldn't be surprised when they get reported. In this incident there are a number of issues. The prank sounds like the kind of thing where the perpetrators halfway *wanted* to get caught, as a publicity stunt, and the felony charge was probably excessive (it surprised everybody). The activity of painting the mountain *was* illegal and was correctly interpreted by the photo clerk. There does not seem to have been any misinterpretation of facts. This is unlike bathtub pictures of children, etc. With pictures of naked children we have a totally different issue, namely people being accused of dealing in child pornography when they are doing nothing of the sort. People who take pictures need to realize that, when they take them to be processed, they're showing them to the people who do the processing. If you need total privacy, develop the pictures yourself, or use a digital camera and your own computer. Finally: beating up photo clerks is a terrible idea. Aside from other consequences, it would cause stores to stop offering photo finishing altogether, and raise prices for all of us, all the time. A lot of this is analogous to computer security incidents I used to handle. People seem to think they can do an illegal thing in front of a big audience of total strangers, and then *demand* that it be kept from the police, by leaning on a few individuals (often sysadmins). |
#5
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Nosey Clerks Turning People Into Police
You do make a lot of good points.
I do want to point out: in THIS case, the painting of the mountain by the Utah players: clearly this is not one of the things inspiring me to say "the photo clerks needs to mind their own business." It's just that, for some reason, it made me THINK of the times where they should--e.g., children in the bathtub etc. A few years ago I was taking care of a little boy, for instance--an infant--and he would occasionally pee into the air when I was changing his diaper. I thought it was hilarious, and told people I wanted to try & catch him in the act with my camcorder because it would make a hilarious clip. The parents didn't mind. I had a few friends, however, tell me I shouldn't do such things because people would be suspicious and think child pornography was going on. THOSE are the types of people--someone who would overreact and cause such trouble--those people frankly do need to be beaten up if possible if they do such a thing. Well, something needs to be done if it's not beating up or whatever--thing is, they need to be held accountable for how their extreme nosiness and overreaction causes these types of problems, rather than being allowed to be a rebelrouser (sp?) and get away with it. We need to fight back with such things and frankly make such people hurt in whatever way we can. I do not advocate a sue-happy society, but I was reading in an old article where it talked about how labs put clerks in this position but also how that apparently a customer can sue if they've been falsely accused. That's exactly what I would do--I'd sue the pants off of them 'til they couldn't afford an M & M if they wanted one. If that's what it takes to get them to lighten up and respect customer's privacy--obviously, extreme examples should be exempted--then so be it. LRH 1) I've read numerous reports of this type of problem, not just with photo clerks. 2) Beating people up is a felony and far worse than reporting suspicious photos. 3) Near here a clerk is a hero because she spotted photos of a kid with a bunch of explosives and weapons. Some think she prevented a Columbine style attack on a school. 4) The police/DA are the real problem. The clerks have little or no training. 5) People stupid enough to take pictures of themselves committing a crime shouldn't be surprised when they get reported. In this incident there are a number of issues. The prank sounds like the kind of thing where the perpetrators halfway *wanted* to get caught, as a publicity stunt, and the felony charge was probably excessive (it surprised everybody). The activity of painting the mountain *was* illegal and was correctly interpreted by the photo clerk. There does not seem to have been any misinterpretation of facts. This is unlike bathtub pictures of children, etc. With pictures of naked children we have a totally different issue, namely people being accused of dealing in child pornography when they are doing nothing of the sort. People who take pictures need to realize that, when they take them to be processed, they're showing them to the people who do the processing. If you need total privacy, develop the pictures yourself, or use a digital camera and your own computer. Finally: beating up photo clerks is a terrible idea. Aside from other consequences, it would cause stores to stop offering photo finishing altogether, and raise prices for all of us, all the time. A lot of this is analogous to computer security incidents I used to handle. People seem to think they can do an illegal thing in front of a big audience of total strangers, and then *demand* that it be kept from the police, by leaning on a few individuals (often sysadmins). |
#6
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Nosey Clerks Turning People Into Police
"Larry R Harrison Jr" wrote in message news:w5byc.11481$fZ1.772@fed1read03... This link here got me started on something about clerks turning people in who get their film developed. Link: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/...rtnersite=espn It talks about students who painted the side of a mountain as a sort of rivalry with another neighboring school. They took photos of the event turned in the film and are now dealing with a felony because of a clerk seeing the photos and calling the police. But the students did commit the crime, photographed it, and were stupid enough to turn in the film for processing. I started thinking about how now things are touchy with regards to, say, persons photographing their kids in the tub and what not and getting in trouble with police because of lab employees assuming the worst and calling the police. Where would you draw the line? If you were in their shoes, and spotted photos depicting rape or torture, what would you do? With this case, if I were those Utah players, frankly I'd want to wait at the lab for the same employee to get off work, then I'd beat the **** out of him (or her) for not minding their own business. Which may also be illegal, don't you think? But what the hell. Might makes right, I guess. I was also thinking: if I, say, were photographing a friend's child in the tub etc and turned the photos in, I think I'd make a point of seeing who worked there--I'd look behind the counter etc--and if the police questioned me I'd have half a mind to beat the snot out of the lab employees for making a fuss. And someone with half a mind is what that would take! It occurs to me: these clerks need to be like the Swiss Bank people and mind their own business. People should be able to take photos of whatever in the jollies they feel like without worrying about such things. I mean, the odds that photos of someone's child of a tub being child pornography is nothing compared to the far likelier scenario of it simply being typical parents taking pictures of their typical kids, nothing. Yes, it can go too far. But the morons who painted a mountain engaged in vandalism, and wasn't that the original point of this thread? Thing is: nothing ever gets written about people getting into trouble like this having done nothing wrong--getting into trouble due to overzealous photo clerks who don't mind their own business. It occurs to me something needs to be done about this; their needs to be legal or vigelante type of justice to make these photo clerks just do their job and mind their own business--and stop causing trouble. That's right! When you see a crime, look the other way. Things will sort themselves out. OK, enough. Yes, overzealous clerks may go too far, but what's the alternative? If they develop some film that shows some students trashing a school, do they remain silent? If that's a no, then why is a mountain different? Thoughts? Yes. If you're a destructive asshole, don't take pictures of your handiwork and get them developed at a public place. If you are that stupid, don't violently take it out on the person who turned you in. You're the one at fault, not them. Do the crime, do the time. LRH |
#7
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Nosey Clerks Turning People Into Police
"Bowzre" wrote in message news:WOryc.29117$HG.3726@attbi_s53... That's right! When you see a crime, look the other way. Things will sort themselves out. OK, enough. Yes, overzealous clerks may go too far, but what's the alternative? If they develop some film that shows some students trashing a school, do they remain silent? If that's a no, then why is a mountain different? Hmm. I think China might be a suitable place for you--they seem to love the idea of no one respecting anyone's privacy. |
#8
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Nosey Clerks Turning People Into Police
"Larry R Harrison Jr" wrote in message news:lUwyc.19321$fZ1.10780@fed1read03... "Bowzre" wrote in message news:WOryc.29117$HG.3726@attbi_s53... That's right! When you see a crime, look the other way. Things will sort themselves out. OK, enough. Yes, overzealous clerks may go too far, but what's the alternative? If they develop some film that shows some students trashing a school, do they remain silent? If that's a no, then why is a mountain different? Hmm. I think China might be a suitable place for you--they seem to love the idea of no one respecting anyone's privacy. I have the utmost respect for one's privacy. And for the law, which, apparently, you do not. Where would you draw the line? How bad a crime do you have to witness in order to make you report it? I liked that you snipped most of my reply. Obviously, you cannot justify most of what you said in the original post. |
#9
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Nosey Clerks Turning People Into Police
"Bowzre" wrote in message news:Z5Jyc.89433$Ly.9172@attbi_s01...
How bad a crime do you have to witness in order to make you report it? Murder, rape, theft, sexual assault of a minor by an adult. I would not consider photos of a kid in a bathtub by an average Joe suspicious, and I completely support any who's a victim of this who responds by suing for false accuastion. I also think that the way it is where if a child at school says "daddy hits me when I'm bad" it merits automatic reporting to CPS. That's totally outragoues, as 98% of the time that's merely a situation where you have a parent that spanks--not beats, etc--and they don't deserve to have CPS sticking their nose into their business. Now yeah, if the child was always showing up bruised and you could see evidence the mother was bruised, then sure--report it. But report every instance where a child is simply echoing how they are spanked? Please. In short--too much big government, and even if it's the law that such things would be reported--if I were in that position, I would NOT report it. I would stubbornly refuse to. (Again, I WOULD in the example where the kid's always bruised and the mom is too.) I will NOT respect any law of any country that is that oppressive. When the law doesn't respect me then it doesn't deserve my respect. And that's hardly unique to me. Consider how many people speed. Why do they? Becuase they know how ridiculous the speed limits are, they know the whole system has little to do with safety and a lot to do with gouging people out of their money under the pretense of safety. Heck one study I read about years ago stated that even staff members of the NHTSA--yes, the NHTSA--agreed that most speed limits were like 10 mph too slow. So yeah--when the law is that ridiculous, I will NOT respect it. And if the law says I have to report every single person in a photo lab who takes photos of their kids in the tub--then yeah I'm going to break the law and refuse to tell on them. Again--if the law doesn't respect me (or its citizens) then I'm not going to respect it--because at that point it doesn't deserve my respect. LRH |
#10
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Nosey Clerks Turning People Into Police
"Larry R Harrison Jr" wrote in message om... So yeah--when the law is that ridiculous, I will NOT respect it. And if the law says I have to report every single person in a photo lab who takes photos of their kids in the tub--then yeah I'm going to break the law and refuse to tell on them. As far as I know there is no such law. And if there were, you should be agitating to get it changed, not demanding that clerks break the law. I think every photofinisher needs a *policy* about what to do when they encounter pictures that may be of illegal activity. The individual clerk should not have to make the decision -- he should always consult management. This shifts liability from him to the company, which is as it should be. |
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