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  #21  
Old June 20th 14, 10:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_4_]
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Posts: 3,246
Default Darkroom classes

On 6/20/2014 2:29 PM, nospam wrote:
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

If people are willing to pay money to learn something then why not let them.


they can do whatever they want but they'll learn more with digital.

the problem is that the original article was about high schools and
colleges teaching obsolete skills to students who have no choice.


Just where does it say the students have no choice.



--
PeterN
  #22  
Old June 20th 14, 10:28 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_4_]
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Posts: 3,246
Default Darkroom classes

On 6/20/2014 2:29 PM, nospam wrote:

snip


digital media is the future.


No it's the present. There is quantum computing in our future.


--
PeterN
  #23  
Old June 20th 14, 10:42 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
James Silverton[_2_]
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Posts: 123
Default Darkroom classes

On 6/20/2014 4:13 PM, James Silverton wrote:
On 6/20/2014 2:29 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Stephen
wrote:

This might be of interest. It's about schools around
Boston where film photography and darkroom classes
are popular. Apparently they had to find a store to
get them a supply of materials:


http://betaboston.com/news/2014/06/1...l-film-photogr

aph
y-s
till-popular-at-some-local-schools/

apparently those schools haven't received the memo about digital
photography.

Crealde School of Art offers photography classes including "PH144
Black & White Film Photography". The also have a darkroom rental
program.

http://www.crealde.org/photography.html

The teacher, Peter Schreyer, has quite a solid CV.
http://www.crealde.org/Faculty/Peter...yer/index.html

Quite a nice guy, too. I've participated in some programs with him.

yet another school who hasn't got the memo.

just what do these people who are taking the classes expect to do with
their new found skills? open up a custom darkroom lab?

Make beautiful prints that generations can enjoy.


prints can be made from digital.

With digital, the files would be lost once the person loses interest
in keeping the files up to date & accessible. Assuming the storage
medium even lasts. Digital needs a cpu, software, a display and
something to read the medium the digital file is on.


nonsense. film needs low humidity storage and there are no backups.
once they're damaged, they're *gone*.

digital will outlast any physical media, with unlimited numbers of
backups that can be anywhere in the world, so no risk of natural
disaster damaging anything.

Film doesn't require special equipment to view, you can see the image
on the film with your eyeball.


only if you don't mind postage stamp sized images, and for negatives,
they'll be reversed.

plus it's trivial to pull up any digital image, especially since
everyone has a computer, tablet or smartphone.

there is no reason to teach film photography any more than there is
teaching how to work a printing press. they are skills that are no
longer needed.

So, the catalogs that companies like Grizzly, Mouser, Digi-key and B&H
Photo send out don't exist? Then there are books, magazines and
newspapers.


the bulk of their business is online sales, not from a paper catalog,
which most companies don't send out anymore anyway.

plus, it's a *lot* easier to teach and learn digital photography than
it is film.

The only difference between the film and digital, is what's needed to
get the final output. Well, there is another, electricity isn't
needed to take a photo on film...


the days of mechanical cameras are *long* gone.

Would not a black and white print using a laser printer with carbon ink
on a no-acid paper keep quite well? It could be scanned back into a
computer system if necessary. Color prints might be best stored
electronically and copied to current media from time to time if they
have value.

Admittedly, silver separation negatives can keep very well, witness the
color prints of Prokudin-Gorsky from about the end of the nineteenth
century but I can't see anyone making such negatives now.

Can I add a quotation from alt.quotations:

"Every old man complains of the growing depravity of the world, of the
petulance and insolence of the rising generation. He recounts the
decency and regularity of former times, and celebrates the discipline
and sobriety of the age in which his youth was passed; a happy age which
is now no more to be expected, since confusion has broken in upon the
world, and thrown down all the boundaries of civility and reverence.
-- Samuel Johnson: Rambler #50 (September 8, 1750)"

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.
  #24  
Old June 20th 14, 10:52 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
George Kerby
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Posts: 4,798
Default Darkroom classes




On 6/20/14 1:29 PM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , George Kerby
wrote:

There was once a time where REAL photographers knew the techniques necessary
to prevent "red-eye". Now, any moron can touch a button to clean up his
sloppy snapshots.


that's a good thing, since it empowers anyone to take good photos, not
just the 'experts'.



Ahhhh! "The infinite monkey theorem" LIVES!!!!

  #25  
Old June 20th 14, 10:55 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
George Kerby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Darkroom classes




On 6/20/14 2:32 PM, in article
[email protected], "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2014-06-20 18:29:06 +0000, nospam said:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

there is no reason to teach film photography any more than there is
teaching how to work a printing press. they are skills that are no
longer needed.

It's astonishing (but perhaps it's not) that you think there is no
longer any need to know how to work a printing press. There are still
umpteen million tons of news print being produced every year plus
heaven knows what of higher grade papers. Do you think it's all going
to be used to wrap fish and chips?


it's done with computers now. nobody manually produces newspapers
anymore. do you think they still load letters into the press?

and newspapers and magazines are being replaced with online versions
anyway so even that is a soon to be obsolete skill.


...and yet the B&H catalog arrives in my mailbox regularly.


Mine as well.

There's GOOD reason that Restoration Hardware sends out 20 lbs of catalogs
via UPS Ground every year full of six color glossy clay pages of their
products: IT WORKS!

  #26  
Old June 20th 14, 10:57 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
George Kerby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Darkroom classes




On 6/20/14 2:59 PM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article [email protected],
Savageduck wrote:

...and yet the B&H catalog arrives in my mailbox regularly.


they're one of the few and it's a complete waste of trees and the
postage to mail them out.

mine goes straight to the landfill. i don't even look at it.


You know, there is something that you can do about it if it bothers you that
much?

UNSUBSCRIBE!


  #27  
Old June 20th 14, 10:59 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
George Kerby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Darkroom classes




On 6/20/14 4:42 PM, in article , "James Silverton"
wrote:

On 6/20/2014 4:13 PM, James Silverton wrote:
On 6/20/2014 2:29 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Stephen
wrote:

This might be of interest. It's about schools around
Boston where film photography and darkroom classes
are popular. Apparently they had to find a store to
get them a supply of materials:



http://betaboston.com/news/2014/06/17/darkroom-over-digital-film-photog
r

aph
y-s
till-popular-at-some-local-schools/

apparently those schools haven't received the memo about digital
photography.

Crealde School of Art offers photography classes including "PH144
Black & White Film Photography". The also have a darkroom rental
program.

http://www.crealde.org/photography.html

The teacher, Peter Schreyer, has quite a solid CV.
http://www.crealde.org/Faculty/Peter...yer/index.html

Quite a nice guy, too. I've participated in some programs with him.

yet another school who hasn't got the memo.

just what do these people who are taking the classes expect to do with
their new found skills? open up a custom darkroom lab?

Make beautiful prints that generations can enjoy.

prints can be made from digital.

With digital, the files would be lost once the person loses interest
in keeping the files up to date & accessible. Assuming the storage
medium even lasts. Digital needs a cpu, software, a display and
something to read the medium the digital file is on.

nonsense. film needs low humidity storage and there are no backups.
once they're damaged, they're *gone*.

digital will outlast any physical media, with unlimited numbers of
backups that can be anywhere in the world, so no risk of natural
disaster damaging anything.

Film doesn't require special equipment to view, you can see the image
on the film with your eyeball.

only if you don't mind postage stamp sized images, and for negatives,
they'll be reversed.

plus it's trivial to pull up any digital image, especially since
everyone has a computer, tablet or smartphone.

there is no reason to teach film photography any more than there is
teaching how to work a printing press. they are skills that are no
longer needed.

So, the catalogs that companies like Grizzly, Mouser, Digi-key and B&H
Photo send out don't exist? Then there are books, magazines and
newspapers.

the bulk of their business is online sales, not from a paper catalog,
which most companies don't send out anymore anyway.

plus, it's a *lot* easier to teach and learn digital photography than
it is film.

The only difference between the film and digital, is what's needed to
get the final output. Well, there is another, electricity isn't
needed to take a photo on film...

the days of mechanical cameras are *long* gone.

Would not a black and white print using a laser printer with carbon ink
on a no-acid paper keep quite well? It could be scanned back into a
computer system if necessary. Color prints might be best stored
electronically and copied to current media from time to time if they
have value.

Admittedly, silver separation negatives can keep very well, witness the
color prints of Prokudin-Gorsky from about the end of the nineteenth
century but I can't see anyone making such negatives now.

Can I add a quotation from alt.quotations:

"Every old man complains of the growing depravity of the world, of the
petulance and insolence of the rising generation. He recounts the
decency and regularity of former times, and celebrates the discipline
and sobriety of the age in which his youth was passed; a happy age which
is now no more to be expected, since confusion has broken in upon the
world, and thrown down all the boundaries of civility and reverence.
-- Samuel Johnson: Rambler #50 (September 8, 1750)"


"I have become my father" is one of my favorites...

  #28  
Old June 21st 14, 12:11 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Darkroom classes

On 2014-06-20 21:55:51 +0000, George Kerby said:




On 6/20/14 2:32 PM, in article
[email protected], "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2014-06-20 18:29:06 +0000, nospam said:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

there is no reason to teach film photography any more than there is
teaching how to work a printing press. they are skills that are no
longer needed.

It's astonishing (but perhaps it's not) that you think there is no
longer any need to know how to work a printing press. There are still
umpteen million tons of news print being produced every year plus
heaven knows what of higher grade papers. Do you think it's all going
to be used to wrap fish and chips?

it's done with computers now. nobody manually produces newspapers
anymore. do you think they still load letters into the press?

and newspapers and magazines are being replaced with online versions
anyway so even that is a soon to be obsolete skill.


...and yet the B&H catalog arrives in my mailbox regularly.


Mine as well.

There's GOOD reason that Restoration Hardware sends out 20 lbs of catalogs
via UPS Ground every year full of six color glossy clay pages of their
products: IT WORKS!


You would just love the catalogs I get from Rock Island Auction (RIA)
from time to time. They are pure works of art.
Here is a quick shot of a page from one I just happen to have handy.
https://db.tt/khZ7KYJM
https://www.rockislandauction.com/home

--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #29  
Old June 21st 14, 12:24 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Darkroom classes

On 2014-06-20 21:59:24 +0000, George Kerby said:
On 6/20/14 4:42 PM, in article , "James Silverton"
wrote:


Le Snip
Can I add a quotation from alt.quotations:

"Every old man complains of the growing depravity of the world, of the
petulance and insolence of the rising generation. He recounts the
decency and regularity of former times, and celebrates the discipline
and sobriety of the age in which his youth was passed; a happy age which
is now no more to be expected, since confusion has broken in upon the
world, and thrown down all the boundaries of civility and reverence.
-- Samuel Johnson: Rambler #50 (September 8, 1750)"


"I have become my father" is one of my favorites...


That wouldn't be too bad. My father is going to be 91 in three weeks,
he has a 76 year old lady friend. He is in good health, and he has just
updated his current OSX 10.6.8 to 10.9.3.

If I could emulate that if I reach 91.
https://db.tt/6Wjcrfz9


--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #30  
Old June 21st 14, 01:33 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
George Kerby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Darkroom classes




On 6/20/14 6:11 PM, in article
[email protected], "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2014-06-20 21:55:51 +0000, George Kerby said:




On 6/20/14 2:32 PM, in article
[email protected], "Savageduck"
wrote:

On 2014-06-20 18:29:06 +0000, nospam said:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

there is no reason to teach film photography any more than there is
teaching how to work a printing press. they are skills that are no
longer needed.

It's astonishing (but perhaps it's not) that you think there is no
longer any need to know how to work a printing press. There are still
umpteen million tons of news print being produced every year plus
heaven knows what of higher grade papers. Do you think it's all going
to be used to wrap fish and chips?

it's done with computers now. nobody manually produces newspapers
anymore. do you think they still load letters into the press?

and newspapers and magazines are being replaced with online versions
anyway so even that is a soon to be obsolete skill.

...and yet the B&H catalog arrives in my mailbox regularly.


Mine as well.

There's GOOD reason that Restoration Hardware sends out 20 lbs of catalogs
via UPS Ground every year full of six color glossy clay pages of their
products: IT WORKS!


You would just love the catalogs I get from Rock Island Auction (RIA)
from time to time. They are pure works of art.
Here is a quick shot of a page from one I just happen to have handy.
https://db.tt/khZ7KYJM
https://www.rockislandauction.com/home


Exactly! Catalogs will always be there.

 




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