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  #81  
Old January 22nd 15, 03:45 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sandman
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Posts: 5,467
Default Finding restaurants

In article , Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

Andreas Skitsnack:
That's hardly a problem faced only by the tourist in the US.
It's a problem faced by any tourist in any country other than
his/her own country.


Sandman:
No. It. Isn't. If you travel to Italy and pick a restaurant at
random, you will never ever be served the things we were served
when doing the same in the US. It just doesn't happen. Sure, some
countries have vastly different food cultures, so the cultural
taste differs heavily, but a european travelling in Europa will
not pick bad places at random at the rate it's done in America.


I have made several trips to Europe


Then you know.

I've had hits and misses.


And by "misses" you mean you've had a meal at a restaurant in say, France,
where the quality of the meat was sub-standard or the produce was old and
stale? That is the topic, remember?

There will always be shoddy restaurants. But I'm claiming that the
base *quality* is higher, so the reason for the "miss" is less likely to be
due to a bad foundation, but rather a bad chef with a good foundation.

I don't complain about the misses because I feel that's the risk of
traveling.


Indeed.

I would never consider whining on as you have done about any aspect of
foreign travel. A traveler should not expect to find things in a foreign
country to be the same as he would at home.


I don't "whine". When asked, I answer. Then someone with way too much pride
invested in the food culture of the states chimes in and claims I am wrong,
so I explain further.

You claim to have made other visits to the US. Why do you return?


I've been there for business in several occasions.

I've been in Florida three times, two of them fairly recently. The reason
is the Disney parks. We could go to EuroDisney in France of course, but why
not go to the biggest of them all if you can, ey? I won't let the food
stand in my way for that.

That's why we rented an apartment instead of staying in a hotel, so that we
can cook our own food. At first, we shopped at Walmart, but someone tipped
us about Whole Foods (if I remember correctly) so the quality of the
products then was really good, very much on-standard with home groceries.

Soon my sister's kids will be old enough to visit the parks, so we'll
probably return, but chances are that we'll go to Disney Land instead, I
hear that the Universal park on that coast is nicer.


--
Sandman[.net]
  #82  
Old January 22nd 15, 04:00 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PAS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 480
Default Finding restaurants

"Sandman" wrote in message
...
In article [email protected],
Savageduck wrote:

Sandman:
It's hard to find English-speaking sources, seeing how Americans
actually think factory grain-fed meat is better for you. Gress-fed
leads to leaner meat, less fat, meaning that the taste comes more
from the meat and less from the fat.


You are painting your biased anti-American opinion with a broad
brush.


My apologies, I meant no offence. As you're probably aware, my "tone"
is
different when speaking to the trolls and when speaking to normal
people
like you.

I can't address Tony's experience as a cattle rancher or
restauranteur, but some of the finest beef available in the USA is
grass fed. One of the best sources of grass fed beef is local for
me here in San Luis Obispo County, California, and comes from the
farming business of a family you might have heard of, Hearst Ranch.
Their beef supply is seasonal, but some of the best you would be
served anywhere in the World.


Sounds awesome, and that's what grazing does. Not only does it give
leaner
meat that taste more like actual meat, it also makes the cattle more
relaxed, and dare I say; happy. Which also affects the taste.

So, please don't generalize the entire country with your Florida
tourist experience.


Fair enough. My view on "Americans" is probably colored heavily by the
people you find in these areas, but my view on American *food* is
based on
a broader selection than just this tourist area. And a friend of mine,
that
actually went to America and did a coast-to-coast road trip over the
course
of over a month, agrees with me wholeheartedly, saying that finding
good
food was really really hard, and he drove all over the place, not only
in
typical tourist areas (at least not akin to the Florida kind).


I find it quite eas to find good food anywhere I've been. It's easy to
find all kinds - good, bad, mediocre.

As I have said elsewhere in this thread, even though I live in a
relatively small community on the California Central Coast, we are
at the center of the Central Coast wine industry and being located
between L.A. & San Francisco, we have a healthy tourist industry
here in San Luis Obispo County, and my nearest town Paso Robles
reflects that in the surprisingly high number of very good
restaurants to be found here.,


Sounds great. I wonder, also, if perhaps what constitutes "great" also
differs greatly. The advice I have been given by Americans when I've
been
there have not really led me to believe that they really know what
"great
food" is, and would have their mind blown were they ever to come to
Europe.


My travels to Europe are limited. I've spent time in Greece with
relatives. I've been to London twice. I toured Italy for two weeks. I
had good and bad food in all of the places. I was in a restaurant in
Athens that served what was supposed to be good food that Americans
would like. It was white-glove service and the service was excellent,
but the food was not good at all. Greeks wouldn't know a good steak if
it smacked them in the face. Now the Italians - they know a good steak.
The Florentine steak was ridiculous, amazingly tender and flavorful.
But boy was it expensive! The pizza in Italy was good but I've had
better pizza here in New York.

And I really don't want to chalk it down to only cultural differences,
the
things I've objected to have been fairly objective. Like the quality
of the
ingredients, the meat and the produce. Also the sheer amount of added
salt,
sugar and fat that seems to be added only to hide the low-quality
meat.

But, as I said before, it seems there is a "lowest common denominator"
going on there. Food is made, package and sold to appeal to the most
people, meaning that people that *do* like something above average
(like,
presumably, you do), also may have a rather hard time finding it in
the
common places.

One examples seems to be the school restaurants. I'm sure you've seen
the
futile mission the english chef Jamie Oliver was on when trying to
change
the menu on an American school (a school, where some students thought
french fries was a vegetable).


Technically, they are correct - potatoes are vegetables but they don't
have the nutritional value of a "normal" vegetable.

  #83  
Old January 22nd 15, 04:55 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Finding restaurants

On 2015-01-22 15:45:33 +0000, Sandman said:

Soon my sister's kids will be old enough to visit the parks, so we'll
probably return, but chances are that we'll go to Disney Land instead, I
hear that the Universal park on that coast is nicer.


Why do you think food services at Disneyland in Anaheim are going to be
any different to what you would find at Disney World in Florida?
The tourist traps of the L.A. basin are no more appealing than the
tourist traps of Florida. Anaheim is a wasteland connected to L.A. by
the freeway system. All concrete and parking lot. DisneyLand is an
aging (60 year old) theme park where the shine has been worn off years
ago.
As for Universal, that is a totally different level of commercialism.
There are other theme parks in the area which specialize in thrill
rides such as Six Flags Magic Mountain, but I wouldn't think that would
be suitable for very young kids.
https://www.sixflags.com/magicmountain

Personally I do whatever I can to avoid the L.A. area and I only travel
down there rarely these days to visit a niece in Huntington Beach, and
my one movie star friend. When I visit I try to take in places which
interest me and go beyond the artificiality of Disney. Places such as
both of the Getty museums, the Chino "Planes of Fame" museum, or the
Petersen Automotive Museum.
http://www.getty.edu
http://planesoffame.org
http://www.petersen.org

In California there are places other than amusement parks and Hollywood
Boulevard to visit. I would plan visits to Yosemite NP, Kings
Canyon-Sequoia NP, Big Sur, Monterey, The North Coast, Napa Valley, and
Redwood National Forest before I would even consider L.A.
http://www.nps.gov/yose/index.htm
http://www.bigsurcalifornia.org
http://www.seemonterey.com
http://www.montereybayaquarium.org
http://www.sonomacounty.com
http://www.nps.gov/redw/index.htm

....and even my local area.
http://www.visitsanluisobispocounty.com

....and if you enjoy wine & food we have some of the best. I have to add
the caveat that we also have some restaurants best avoided along with
the ubiquitous purveyors of fast food.
http://www.pasowine.com/wineries/
http://www.travelpaso.com

--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #84  
Old January 22nd 15, 05:34 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,487
Default Finding restaurants

On 2015-01-22 17:01:32 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 06:57:18 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2015-01-22 12:51:13 +0000, Sandman said:

In article , Tony Cooper wrote:

Sandman:
that way you do in the states. But our cattle are
fed by grazing in pastures,

Cooper:
Grass will not sustain a large herd of beef cattle. They are
fed supplemental products; grain in some parts of the country
and corn in other parts of the country. Grass-fed beef, unless
the animal is part of a very small group and is pastured in a
large area, is tough and flavorless.

Sandman:
Wow, that's the largest pile of bull**** you've posted in a long
while. I suppose it might be something an American would try to
convince himself about.

What is it you ask for? Proof? Provide it. A large herd will
over-graze a pasture.

It's hard to find English-speaking sources, seeing how Americans actually
think factory grain-fed meat is better for you. Gress-fed leads to leaner
meat, less fat, meaning that the taste comes more from the meat and less
from the fat.


You are painting your biased anti-American opinion with a broad brush.
I can't address Tony's experience as a cattle rancher or restauranteur,
but some of the finest beef available in the USA is grass fed. One of
the best sources of grass fed beef is local for me here in San Luis
Obispo County, California, and comes from the farming business of a
family you might have heard of, Hearst Ranch. Their beef supply is
seasonal, but some of the best you would be served anywhere in the
World.
http://www.hearstranch.com/grass-fed-beef/
http://www.sfgate.com/food/article/Grass-fed-beef-tops-Hearst-Ranch-business-ventures-5647624.php#photo-6630153


We

also have very good feedlot beef from another reasonably local source,
Harris Ranch. Their fresh meat and prepared meat products can be found
in many California supermarkets, and served in many California
restaurants.
http://www.harrisranchbeef.com/products/fresh_beef.html


Your comments above pertain to what is really a specialized and narrow
segment of the beef production industry. It's relevant to what an
individual, or a high-end privately-owned restaurant can obtain, but
it's not relevant to the run-of-the-mill restaurants and chain
restaurants one finds in the tourist corridors of the US. And, that's
the specific area Jonas is whining about.


Agreed. He isn't going to do any better in Anaheim and Disneyland, I
would guess that experience would be worse than his Orlando "ghetto"
ordeal.

It's also not relevant to what one finds in Florida. Florida's soil
just doesn't lend itself to quality grass-fed beef.


Who would have thought that of Florida? ;-)

Our sandy soil has required that the cattle ranches (Deseret has a huge
cattle ranch
in Florida) here use cattle bred to subsist on our poor quality grass:
the Brangus. Deseret's beef cattle go the mass market buyers. I'd
never buy a side of Brangus for personal use.


If anybody should have that local knowledge it would be you.

A Florida restaurant could obtain grass-fed beef, but it would be
imported from a distant area and there would be associated extra
shipping and handling charges.


That is true of the Hearst Ranch grass fed beef which is only
seasonable availability. However there is more than one California
source for grass fed beef. There are added costs.
http://www.bestgrassfedbeef.com
http://www.jandjgrassfedbeef.com

The Harris Ranch beef is available year round and is reasonably priced.

Any Florida restaurant that would incur these higher prices is more
likely to be aiming for the repeat local crowd, not the here-and-gone
tourists that teem in the tacky corridor that Jonas stayed in.


Agreed.

I can buy that type of meat from http://orlandomeats.com/. Their
sources are people who raise beef cattle in a special pasture suited
for this and imported beef.


I am sure that they sell quality meat.

So, please don't generalize the entire country with your Florida
tourist experience.


He should not generalize about Florida or even Central Florida or the
tourist corridor. That strip he provided a map of is tee-shirt, shell
ashtray, and stuffed alligator souvenir shop territory. Better
restaurants are in the general, but not the specific, area.


I don't believe he will have a different experience in similar areas on
the West Coast, or any where else in the USA tapping into that market.
Take Vegas for example, there most of the catering is to mass feed the
lowest common denominator. If you want good dining there it is
available at a price the average tourist is not going to be willing to
pay. A different travel plan is in order.

I take issue with the wild generalizations based on his claims of
experience traveling in the US. If his dining horror stories are valid,
he should have reached out and explored beyond the golden arches, and
buffet line-up.

I think he was staying in a rented condo or one of those other dismal
rental places in that area. Had he bothered to stop by one of the
better Disney resort hotels and asked the concierge about some
recommendations, he would have been spared the "horrible" food
experience. The places are there, you just have to use some
initiative to find them.


Yup!

--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #85  
Old January 22nd 15, 05:57 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sandman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,467
Default Finding restaurants

In article , PAS wrote:

Sandman:
Fair enough. My view on "Americans" is probably colored heavily by
the people you find in these areas, but my view on American *food*
is based on a broader selection than just this tourist area. And
a friend of mine, that actually went to America and did a
coast-to-coast road trip over the course of over a month, agrees
with me wholeheartedly, saying that finding good food was really
really hard, and he drove all over the place, not only in typical
tourist areas (at least not akin to the Florida kind).


I find it quite eas to find good food anywhere I've been. It's easy
to find all kinds - good, bad, mediocre.


Agreed, except for my visits to America, where good food has been - at
least to me - hard to find. Maybe I've been unusually unlucky, but my
experience is shared with others, so I'm not sure.

Sandman:
Sounds great. I wonder, also, if perhaps what constitutes "great"
also differs greatly. The advice I have been given by Americans
when I've been there have not really led me to believe that they
really know what "great food" is, and would have their mind blown
were they ever to come to Europe.


My travels to Europe are limited. I've spent time in Greece with
relatives. I've been to London twice. I toured Italy for two
weeks. I had good and bad food in all of the places. I was in a
restaurant in Athens that served what was supposed to be good food
that Americans would like. It was white-glove service and the
service was excellent, but the food was not good at all. Greeks
wouldn't know a good steak if it smacked them in the face. Now the
Italians - they know a good steak. The Florentine steak was
ridiculous, amazingly tender and flavorful. But boy was it
expensive! The pizza in Italy was good but I've had better pizza
here in New York.


I just want to clarify (once again) that I am fully aware of the fact that
bad food can be found anywhere on the planet. My comparison with USA vs.
Europe is based on my experience with the quality of the ingerdients. As
I've said, anyone can make a bad meal out of the most tender meat you can
find. But the problem with most of the places in the states I've been to
hasn't been incompetent chefs, but the use of sub-standard meat and
produce. And even a good chef will have problems making good food out of
that.

On top of that, way too much food is loaded with sugar, salt and grease,
and my suspicion is that it's there to hide the poor quality meat
underneath.

Sandman:
And I really don't want to chalk it down to only cultural
differences, the things I've objected to have been fairly
objective. Like the quality of the ingredients, the meat and the
produce. Also the sheer amount of added salt, sugar and fat that
seems to be added only to hide the low-quality meat.


But, as I said before, it seems there is a "lowest common
denominator" going on there. Food is made, package and sold to
appeal to the most people, meaning that people that *do* like
something above average (like, presumably, you do), also may have
a rather hard time finding it in the common places.


One examples seems to be the school restaurants. I'm sure you've
seen the futile mission the english chef Jamie Oliver was on when
trying to change the menu on an American school (a school, where
some students thought french fries was a vegetable).


Technically, they are correct - potatoes are vegetables but they
don't have the nutritional value of a "normal" vegetable.


A potato is only a vegetable in a botanical sense. Nutrionally, they're
carbohydrates, like rice and pasta. Meat and potatoes on a plate wouldn't
be called meat and vegetables by anyone.

Either way, the context was that Jamie asked why they weren't served
vegetables with their meals, and the kid answered that they were, and
indicated the french fries.


--
Sandman[.net]
  #86  
Old January 22nd 15, 06:24 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sandman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,467
Default Finding restaurants

In article , Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

Sandman:
It's hard to find English-speaking sources, seeing how Americans
actually think factory grain-fed meat is better for you.
Gress-fed leads to leaner meat, less fat, meaning that the taste
comes more from the meat and less from the fat.


As expected, you've grabbed this cow by the wrong end. I have not
said that grass-fed beef is not good. You were running on at the
mouth complaining about the meat quality in restaurants in the US,
and I pointed out that there is a difference between grain- and
corn-fed beef and that grass isn't a practical source since large
herds will over-graze and the beef will be tough and flavorless.


Which is incorrect.

You brought up grass-fed, and I pointed out that grass-fed beef is
not a viable option for *restaurant* use in the US.


And I disagree.

Considering the size of the US, and the vast number of restaurants, it is
not possible to provide a sufficient quantity of beef that is grass-fed
and of good quality.


Which I disproved with math.

A small number of cattle-per-acre can be sustained on grass.
However, the restaurant market for beef requires a large number of
cattle-per-acre, and a large number will quickly over-graze the
grass.


The really cool thing about cattle and grass is that it's a natural
circulation kind of thing. The cows eat the grass and fertilize the ground,
which grows new grass real quick. Also, no chemicals or additives needed.
Just nature.

Cattle ranchers would *love* to rely on grass to sustain their
herds. Grass is self-regenerating and represents no additional cost
to them as grain and corn do. It's not practical for them, though.


It's not practical from an economic viewpoint because they can press more
cows per square feet in a factory than they can in a pasture. So less land
needed.

What you have concluded from your links is that grass-fed beef is
good beef, but you have completely missed the point that this is not
a viable option for the amount of beef required for the *restaurant*
market.


Which I've both disagreed with and provided numbers that support it. In
short - if Sweden can do it, so can America.

It is not even a viable option for the grocery store market in the
US. Again, considering the population of the US, grass will not
sustain the number of cattle required to meet the market.


Population is just a number. That number is higher than Sweden's
population, but there are other numbers that are important too, and those
are hihger in an equal fashion. It's a matter of scale and percentages, and
there is no reason it couldn't work other than the greed of companies.

I'm cutting your links because they do not relate to the discussion.
They are not incorrect about grass-fed beef, but they don't address
the beef that is raised for restaurant use.


They we're added because you asked for proof that grass-fed cows both taste
better and is better meat.


--
Sandman[.net]
  #87  
Old January 22nd 15, 06:42 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
James Silverton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 123
Default Finding restaurants

On 1/22/2015 11:00 AM, PAS wrote:
"Sandman" wrote in message
...
In article [email protected],
Savageduck wrote:

Sandman:
It's hard to find English-speaking sources, seeing how Americans
actually think factory grain-fed meat is better for you. Gress-fed
leads to leaner meat, less fat, meaning that the taste comes more
from the meat and less from the fat.

You are painting your biased anti-American opinion with a broad
brush.


My apologies, I meant no offence. As you're probably aware, my "tone" is
different when speaking to the trolls and when speaking to normal people
like you.

I can't address Tony's experience as a cattle rancher or
restauranteur, but some of the finest beef available in the USA is
grass fed. One of the best sources of grass fed beef is local for
me here in San Luis Obispo County, California, and comes from the
farming business of a family you might have heard of, Hearst Ranch.
Their beef supply is seasonal, but some of the best you would be
served anywhere in the World.


Sounds awesome, and that's what grazing does. Not only does it give
leaner
meat that taste more like actual meat, it also makes the cattle more
relaxed, and dare I say; happy. Which also affects the taste.

So, please don't generalize the entire country with your Florida
tourist experience.


Fair enough. My view on "Americans" is probably colored heavily by the
people you find in these areas, but my view on American *food* is
based on
a broader selection than just this tourist area. And a friend of mine,
that
actually went to America and did a coast-to-coast road trip over the
course
of over a month, agrees with me wholeheartedly, saying that finding good
food was really really hard, and he drove all over the place, not only in
typical tourist areas (at least not akin to the Florida kind).


I find it quite eas to find good food anywhere I've been. It's easy to
find all kinds - good, bad, mediocre.

As I have said elsewhere in this thread, even though I live in a
relatively small community on the California Central Coast, we are
at the center of the Central Coast wine industry and being located
between L.A. & San Francisco, we have a healthy tourist industry
here in San Luis Obispo County, and my nearest town Paso Robles
reflects that in the surprisingly high number of very good
restaurants to be found here.,


Sounds great. I wonder, also, if perhaps what constitutes "great" also
differs greatly. The advice I have been given by Americans when I've been
there have not really led me to believe that they really know what "great
food" is, and would have their mind blown were they ever to come to
Europe.


My travels to Europe are limited. I've spent time in Greece with
relatives. I've been to London twice. I toured Italy for two weeks. I
had good and bad food in all of the places. I was in a restaurant in
Athens that served what was supposed to be good food that Americans
would like. It was white-glove service and the service was excellent,
but the food was not good at all. Greeks wouldn't know a good steak if
it smacked them in the face. Now the Italians - they know a good steak.
The Florentine steak was ridiculous, amazingly tender and flavorful. But
boy was it expensive! The pizza in Italy was good but I've had better
pizza here in New York.

And I really don't want to chalk it down to only cultural differences,
the
things I've objected to have been fairly objective. Like the quality
of the
ingredients, the meat and the produce. Also the sheer amount of added
salt,
sugar and fat that seems to be added only to hide the low-quality meat.

But, as I said before, it seems there is a "lowest common denominator"
going on there. Food is made, package and sold to appeal to the most
people, meaning that people that *do* like something above average (like,
presumably, you do), also may have a rather hard time finding it in the
common places.

One examples seems to be the school restaurants. I'm sure you've seen the
futile mission the english chef Jamie Oliver was on when trying to change
the menu on an American school (a school, where some students thought
french fries was a vegetable).


Technically, they are correct - potatoes are vegetables but they don't
have the nutritional value of a "normal" vegetable.


Technically, you could live on potatoes as a complete food. The Irish
more or less did a century and a half ago. I'd be surprised if you could
live on broccoli.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.
  #88  
Old January 22nd 15, 06:52 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sandman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,467
Default Finding restaurants

In article [email protected], Savageduck wrote:

Sandman:
Soon my sister's kids will be old enough to visit the parks, so
we'll probably return, but chances are that we'll go to Disney
Land instead, I hear that the Universal park on that coast is
nicer.


Why do you think food services at Disneyland in Anaheim are going to
be any different to what you would find at Disney World in Florida?


You snipped the question I answered, so there's a bit of confusion here.
Andreas asked why I came back to America if I've had such bad experiences
with the food, and the answer was that I go there for business and because
I have kids that enjoy the Disney (and Universal) parks. As do I, I might
add!

So I have no reason to expect the food in the LA area to be any better than
in the Orlando area, but I'm not choosing LA over Orlando based on food -
but based on what I said above; I've head the Universal park is bigger (and
better) there. Also, I've been to Disney World three times now, and never
to Disney Land, and that's a good enough reason as well.

The tourist traps of the L.A. basin are no more appealing than the
tourist traps of Florida.


I can imagine.

Anaheim is a wasteland connected to L.A. by the freeway system.


Much like Disney World is built in the swamp area west of Orlando, right?


All concrete and parking lot. DisneyLand is an aging (60 year old) theme
park where the shine has been worn off years ago. As for Universal, that
is a totally different level of commercialism. There are other theme
parks in the area which specialize in thrill rides such as Six Flags
Magic Mountain, but I wouldn't think that would be suitable for very
young kids. https://www.sixflags.com/magicmountain


The son and daughter is 11 and 13 this year, but will be considerably older
when my sister's kids are big enough. It may be unfitting for them though.

Personally I do whatever I can to avoid the L.A. area and I only
travel down there rarely these days to visit a niece in Huntington
Beach, and my one movie star friend. When I visit I try to take in
places which interest me and go beyond the artificiality of Disney.


We love theme parks. We have Liseberg here in Sweden, which is actually
larger than Magic Kingdom (which I actually find strange, it feels
smaller), but don't have as much rides/activites.

Disney World is amazing, and I really like the Universal park which we
visited for the first time last year. The Transformers ride was awesoe.

snip list of suggestions

Thanks, not sure if there would ever be a time to look into any of that if
we went there, but I appreciate it.

--
Sandman[.net]
  #89  
Old January 22nd 15, 07:01 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sandman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,467
Default Finding restaurants

In article , Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

Sandman:
I'm not that person, though.


I meant overly obese african american families, or the typical
type of person you see in Hollywood movies from the "Ghetto". I
did not mean it in a racial way. "Ghetto" is just a word to
signify a part of a city where a minority lives. It has european
origins and may be used differently. it is derogatory, of course,
but not necessarily in a racism kind of way.


I get it. You went into a restaurant that was packed with "overly
obese" black people, and you felt a need to point out that Yelp led
you to this place. You're not a racist, allegedly, but know a
stereotypical ghetto person when you see one. It didn't occur to
you that a black person in a tourist restaurant could be from a
middle- or -upper class neighborhood. They must be ghetto people.


I have no idea if they *were* from a ghetto, I said they looked like
stereotypical ghetto people. For the record, I would be VERY surprised if
they were middle- or upper class. But again, I have no idea.

A person with some class would have responded to my post with either
an apology for making a racist comment or at least an admission that
the word choice was totally inappropriate. You, though, try to
defend the usage.


I didn't make a racist comment, and I admitted that the word "ghetto" may
be used differently here compared to there. See the words "may be used
differently" in my quote above?

Also, look up "Ghetto". It originally described the section of
Venice to describe the area in which Jews were forced to live. It
was later used to describe the area of Warsaw where most of the
residents ended up in gas chambers and concentration camps.


I know.

It is now used in the US to mean an area where a minority lives because
of economic or social pressure and strongly implies that it is a slum
area.


Yes, that's how I used it also, but not in a racist way. In Sweden/Europe,
"Ghetto" is not connected to the race of the person living there. That was
how you inferred it, but I didn't mean it.

Not a place that people who have the wherewithal to spend a $100 a
day or so per person to visit a Disney park come from.


These people were not in the Disney park though, they were in the
restaurant.

It is not a nice word to use to describe people who are either black
or fat or both.


So now "ghetto" is a nice word? Not sure I follow your train of thought
here.

Sandman:
And you failed the "test" twice. First off, you were tasked to
find great restaurants in that area, and you failed - which I
attribute to the fact that there *are* no great restaurant in
tourist areas in Florida.


Your task is to use this map - without scrolling, panning, or
expanding the area - and find a river or large body of water.




I will instead use the area to find restaurants:

Varda
Ruffino
Sushi Yama
Jensens Böfhaus
Frank
Di Spagnia
Grekiska Kolgrillsbaren
Vardasrum

Pick anyone of those at random and you'll get a *great* meal, 100%
guaranteed. There are other restaurants in the area, some that aren't super
great, and some I've probably forgotten, but in that area, there are TONS
of really good restaurants.

You're welcome.

If you cannot do so, I must - using Sandman logic - conclude that
there are no rivers or large bodies of water in or near Västerås.


Andreas reasoning skills hard at work.

I must conclude - using Sandman logic - that if I am in the specific
area shown in that map, that there is no means possible to find a
river or large body of water anywhere in the Västerås area.


Stop stumbling over your feet.

--
Sandman[.net]
  #90  
Old January 22nd 15, 07:08 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PAS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 480
Default Finding restaurants

"Sandman" wrote in message
...
In article , PAS wrote:

Sandman:
Fair enough. My view on "Americans" is probably colored heavily by
the people you find in these areas, but my view on American *food*
is based on a broader selection than just this tourist area. And
a friend of mine, that actually went to America and did a
coast-to-coast road trip over the course of over a month, agrees
with me wholeheartedly, saying that finding good food was really
really hard, and he drove all over the place, not only in typical
tourist areas (at least not akin to the Florida kind).


I find it quite eas to find good food anywhere I've been. It's easy
to find all kinds - good, bad, mediocre.


Agreed, except for my visits to America, where good food has been - at
least to me - hard to find. Maybe I've been unusually unlucky, but my
experience is shared with others, so I'm not sure.

Sandman:
Sounds great. I wonder, also, if perhaps what constitutes "great"
also differs greatly. The advice I have been given by Americans
when I've been there have not really led me to believe that they
really know what "great food" is, and would have their mind blown
were they ever to come to Europe.


My travels to Europe are limited. I've spent time in Greece with
relatives. I've been to London twice. I toured Italy for two
weeks. I had good and bad food in all of the places. I was in a
restaurant in Athens that served what was supposed to be good food
that Americans would like. It was white-glove service and the
service was excellent, but the food was not good at all. Greeks
wouldn't know a good steak if it smacked them in the face. Now the
Italians - they know a good steak. The Florentine steak was
ridiculous, amazingly tender and flavorful. But boy was it
expensive! The pizza in Italy was good but I've had better pizza
here in New York.


I just want to clarify (once again) that I am fully aware of the fact
that
bad food can be found anywhere on the planet. My comparison with USA
vs.
Europe is based on my experience with the quality of the ingerdients.
As
I've said, anyone can make a bad meal out of the most tender meat you
can
find. But the problem with most of the places in the states I've been
to
hasn't been incompetent chefs, but the use of sub-standard meat and
produce. And even a good chef will have problems making good food out
of
that.

On top of that, way too much food is loaded with sugar, salt and
grease,
and my suspicion is that it's there to hide the poor quality meat
underneath.

Sandman:
And I really don't want to chalk it down to only cultural
differences, the things I've objected to have been fairly
objective. Like the quality of the ingredients, the meat and the
produce. Also the sheer amount of added salt, sugar and fat that
seems to be added only to hide the low-quality meat.


But, as I said before, it seems there is a "lowest common
denominator" going on there. Food is made, package and sold to
appeal to the most people, meaning that people that *do* like
something above average (like, presumably, you do), also may have
a rather hard time finding it in the common places.


One examples seems to be the school restaurants. I'm sure you've
seen the futile mission the english chef Jamie Oliver was on when
trying to change the menu on an American school (a school, where
some students thought french fries was a vegetable).


Technically, they are correct - potatoes are vegetables but they
don't have the nutritional value of a "normal" vegetable.


A potato is only a vegetable in a botanical sense. Nutrionally,
they're
carbohydrates, like rice and pasta. Meat and potatoes on a plate
wouldn't
be called meat and vegetables by anyone.


I call it meat and vegetables - but my wife isn't accepting that.

Either way, the context was that Jamie asked why they weren't served
vegetables with their meals, and the kid answered that they were, and
indicated the french fries.


 




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