Seeking recommendation for used SLR gears

What is up for debate? Save for the lens for the DRebel ALL EOS lenses fit
and fully function on ALL EOS cameras - Is that too hard a concept for you?

--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from my novel "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
"Peter" wrote in message
om...
"Tony Spadaro" wrote in message
. rr.com...

I need your advice on buying used SLR gears.
(1). I am looking for a SLR body plus a 50mm prime lens and flash as
start-up.
(2). I need to use it as a good tool to learn such techniques as depth
of field.
(3). I am open to either manual focus or auto focus, but one thing
that is very important to me is the lens mount compatibility.
(4). My main interests are outdoor and landscape.
I recommend the Minolta maxxum/dynax 5.
Minolta is coming up with a digital SLR so you will be able to use the
lenses again.
The camera is good for learning, also has DOF-preview, among other
features.

Canon EOS has simple lens mount compatibility and IS lenses. Any Canon
lens
you buy for a film SLR now will be usable on their digital SLRs too. IF
you
are serious about photography you might want to go directly to digital.
That up for debate and the OP already has a digital.

Peter

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:14:03 +0000, Tony Spadaro wrote:

Canon EOS has simple lens mount compatibility and IS lenses. Any Canon
lens you buy for a film SLR now will be usable on their digital SLRs too.
IF you are serious about photography you might want to go directly to
digital.

Are you kidding? The only thing he'll learn is how to press delete
repeatedly. Digital helps, but you still have to learn the principle
behind photography and nothing is better than doing it on film. It forces
you to think about what you're doing. It forces you to get it right.

--
Dallas
Group guidelines on http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
Improve signal to noise ratio by filtering all crossposts.

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:14:03 +0000, Tony Spadaro wrote:

Canon EOS has simple lens mount compatibility and IS lenses. Any Canon
lens you buy for a film SLR now will be usable on their digital SLRs too.
IF you are serious about photography you might want to go directly to
digital.

Are you kidding? The only thing he'll learn is how to press delete
repeatedly. Digital helps, but you still have to learn the principle
behind photography and nothing is better than doing it on film. It forces
you to think about what you're doing. It forces you to get it right.

--
Dallas
Group guidelines on http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
Improve signal to noise ratio by filtering all crossposts.

Dominic Richens wrote:

S. S. wrote:
I need your advice on buying used SLR gears. I started the hobby of
photographing a year ago when I bought a Canon G3 digital camera. Now

I decide to buy a used SLR. More specifically,

IMHO the Nikon FE was the last camera made by Nikon with everything
you'll
ever really need. And unlike the FE2 and later cameras will work with
any
Nikon mount lens ever made.

Usually see them on ebay with 50mm lens for about 200$US

Actually, if you mount one of the newest G specification Nikon lenses,
then the lens will only work at about f22 (or whatever the minimum
aperture opening is set). However, considering that the original question
concerned buying used, I see little reason to seriously consider a brand
new zoom lens. Also, there are some strange very old lens that require
mirror lock-up to mount, like the 8 mm Fisheye Nikkor; meaning that the
FE could not use one of those either. Again, not practical since those
few lenses like that are very expensive collectors items. Value for the
(low) dollar, it is tough to do better than a Nikon FE, to get into the
extensive Nikon system.

A step up from the FE that will also provide usage of nearly all Nikon
lens (again, no modern G lenses, but not a good consideration anyway),
are the Nikon F3 and F4. Both are at quite a low point in used dollars,
though about twice the cost of an FE. The F4 is quite large and heavy,
though this is in common with many newer cameras, especially the F5. Much
more information about Nikon cameras and systems is available at:

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf4/index.htm
This starts with the F4 system, though you can easily explore more links
about lenses, Speedlights, and other Nikon cameras. The main site also
included some Pentax and Canon information, and a little about Contax.

To paraphrase Tony Spadaro, if you need autofocus (poor eyesight,
convenience, coolness factor), then do not even consider any old used
cameras. Get yourself a modern autofocus SLR. Currently, for those on a
stricter budget, a Pentax or KonicaMinolta provide good value for the
money. Try to stay away from the absolute bottom of the line choices, and
you should be able to end up with a nice modern full-of-features camera.

Anyway, to more directly answer the original questions:

"S. S." wrote:

Hello gurus/listers/grouplings,

I need your advice on buying used SLR gears. I started the hobby of
photographing a year ago when I bought a Canon G3 digital camera.

Okay, so you have the convenience of direct digital, and autofocus, and a
zoom lens.

Now
I decide to buy a used SLR. More specifically,

(1). I am looking for a SLR body plus a 50mm prime lens and flash as
start-up. Will add wide-angle and telephoto prime lenses later.

Sounds to me like you want more control over your photography. Used
choices would keep the budget from getting out of hand, and allow all
those items to be purchased economically.



(2). I need to use it as a good tool to learn such techniques as depth
of field. So please take this into consideration when you make
recommendations.

The Depth of Field preview lever is included on many older cameras.
Another thing that can at least help learning this slightly easier is
that some older manual focus lenses include markings roughly indicating
Depth of Field on the lens barrel. Only a few newer autofocus lenses
include that, though don't consider it a strict requirement.



(3). I am open to either manual focus or auto focus, but one thing
that is very important to me is the lens mount compatibility. I do not
want it to be a painful process to choose lenses because of the
limitation of lens mount compatibility.

If you choose a system with a wide enough and numerous enough selection
of used lenses, then you have little to worry about. Just to get back to
Nikon lenses, check this table:

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf4/compatibility/index.htm
Again, this starts with the F4, though it contains many links and tables
to other compatibility indexes, and some comments about other
manufacturers.

This is not to suggest that I think you should get an F4. The autofocus
is nothing like a modern camera, though it works well enough. Anyway, the
F4 came in three basic configurations, mostly different in the grip area,
though quite different in weight and bulk. Even the lightest F4
configuration is quite a large and heavy 35 mm. I suggest if you are
curious to actually find one locally, and see if you like the weight in
your hands; some people think these are much too heavy for 35 mm cameras.



(4). My main interests are outdoor and landscape.

Which seems that it would give you some time to compose your shots.
Manual focus would work quite well. You can also compare older Pentax (MX
or LX), older Canon (AE1, F1, A1) manual focus, or older Contax SLR
(especially the various RTS bodies). Older Pentax manual focus gear
provides many great lenses, and similar pricing to older Nikon gear.
Older Canon gear is only truly limited when it comes to modern autofocus
(EOS system) lenses. Older Contax gear is just a little rare, and some of
it expensive, though the system is very nice quality.



I am looking forward to your valuable suggestions. Since I am living
in an area with extensive exposure to used SLR gears (through
classified ads or dealers), I appreciate if you can make your
recommendation as specific as possible. Thank you in advance!

Okay, if you have an extensive choice of used gear in your area, check to
see about rental gear. It might be possible to rent some gear prior to
buying. In many cities in North America, when I need to rent, I usually
always find older and newer Nikon, and newer Canon 35 mm gear. Gear from
any other companies for 35 mm cameras is much less common. In fact, I
choose Nikon several years ago because of the availability of rental
gear. The quality of the lenses and images is almost the same between
many fixed focal length Nikon, Canon, Pentax, and Zeiss (35 mm) choices,
with very few (notable) exceptions.

The best camera for you will be the one that does not hinder your
creative vision. With that in mind, I still use a (well maintained) Nikon
FE for much of my work. I am far from famous, though it is interesting
that Antonin Kratochvil still uses a Nikon FE, even after decades of
using many cameras. In case you don't recognize his name, check out:

http://www.sevenphoto.com/ Some of the top level in photographers,
though mostly photojournalists, or advertising and editorial based work.
Now with nine photographers.

Okay, if I were to be specific, here are the manual focus cameras I would
check into:
Nikon FE
Nikon FE2
Nikon F3
Nikon F4
Canon F1
Canon A1
Pentax LX
Pentax MX
Contax RTS III

Best of luck, and happy hunting.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com Updated!

Dominic Richens wrote:

S. S. wrote:
I need your advice on buying used SLR gears. I started the hobby of
photographing a year ago when I bought a Canon G3 digital camera. Now

I decide to buy a used SLR. More specifically,

IMHO the Nikon FE was the last camera made by Nikon with everything
you'll
ever really need. And unlike the FE2 and later cameras will work with
any
Nikon mount lens ever made.

Usually see them on ebay with 50mm lens for about 200$US

Actually, if you mount one of the newest G specification Nikon lenses,
then the lens will only work at about f22 (or whatever the minimum
aperture opening is set). However, considering that the original question
concerned buying used, I see little reason to seriously consider a brand
new zoom lens. Also, there are some strange very old lens that require
mirror lock-up to mount, like the 8 mm Fisheye Nikkor; meaning that the
FE could not use one of those either. Again, not practical since those
few lenses like that are very expensive collectors items. Value for the
(low) dollar, it is tough to do better than a Nikon FE, to get into the
extensive Nikon system.

A step up from the FE that will also provide usage of nearly all Nikon
lens (again, no modern G lenses, but not a good consideration anyway),
are the Nikon F3 and F4. Both are at quite a low point in used dollars,
though about twice the cost of an FE. The F4 is quite large and heavy,
though this is in common with many newer cameras, especially the F5. Much
more information about Nikon cameras and systems is available at:

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf4/index.htm
This starts with the F4 system, though you can easily explore more links
about lenses, Speedlights, and other Nikon cameras. The main site also
included some Pentax and Canon information, and a little about Contax.

To paraphrase Tony Spadaro, if you need autofocus (poor eyesight,
convenience, coolness factor), then do not even consider any old used
cameras. Get yourself a modern autofocus SLR. Currently, for those on a
stricter budget, a Pentax or KonicaMinolta provide good value for the
money. Try to stay away from the absolute bottom of the line choices, and
you should be able to end up with a nice modern full-of-features camera.

Anyway, to more directly answer the original questions:

"S. S." wrote:

Hello gurus/listers/grouplings,

I need your advice on buying used SLR gears. I started the hobby of
photographing a year ago when I bought a Canon G3 digital camera.

Okay, so you have the convenience of direct digital, and autofocus, and a
zoom lens.

Now
I decide to buy a used SLR. More specifically,

(1). I am looking for a SLR body plus a 50mm prime lens and flash as
start-up. Will add wide-angle and telephoto prime lenses later.

Sounds to me like you want more control over your photography. Used
choices would keep the budget from getting out of hand, and allow all
those items to be purchased economically.



(2). I need to use it as a good tool to learn such techniques as depth
of field. So please take this into consideration when you make
recommendations.

The Depth of Field preview lever is included on many older cameras.
Another thing that can at least help learning this slightly easier is
that some older manual focus lenses include markings roughly indicating
Depth of Field on the lens barrel. Only a few newer autofocus lenses
include that, though don't consider it a strict requirement.



(3). I am open to either manual focus or auto focus, but one thing
that is very important to me is the lens mount compatibility. I do not
want it to be a painful process to choose lenses because of the
limitation of lens mount compatibility.

If you choose a system with a wide enough and numerous enough selection
of used lenses, then you have little to worry about. Just to get back to
Nikon lenses, check this table:

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf4/compatibility/index.htm
Again, this starts with the F4, though it contains many links and tables
to other compatibility indexes, and some comments about other
manufacturers.

This is not to suggest that I think you should get an F4. The autofocus
is nothing like a modern camera, though it works well enough. Anyway, the
F4 came in three basic configurations, mostly different in the grip area,
though quite different in weight and bulk. Even the lightest F4
configuration is quite a large and heavy 35 mm. I suggest if you are
curious to actually find one locally, and see if you like the weight in
your hands; some people think these are much too heavy for 35 mm cameras.



(4). My main interests are outdoor and landscape.

Which seems that it would give you some time to compose your shots.
Manual focus would work quite well. You can also compare older Pentax (MX
or LX), older Canon (AE1, F1, A1) manual focus, or older Contax SLR
(especially the various RTS bodies). Older Pentax manual focus gear
provides many great lenses, and similar pricing to older Nikon gear.
Older Canon gear is only truly limited when it comes to modern autofocus
(EOS system) lenses. Older Contax gear is just a little rare, and some of
it expensive, though the system is very nice quality.



I am looking forward to your valuable suggestions. Since I am living
in an area with extensive exposure to used SLR gears (through
classified ads or dealers), I appreciate if you can make your
recommendation as specific as possible. Thank you in advance!

Okay, if you have an extensive choice of used gear in your area, check to
see about rental gear. It might be possible to rent some gear prior to
buying. In many cities in North America, when I need to rent, I usually
always find older and newer Nikon, and newer Canon 35 mm gear. Gear from
any other companies for 35 mm cameras is much less common. In fact, I
choose Nikon several years ago because of the availability of rental
gear. The quality of the lenses and images is almost the same between
many fixed focal length Nikon, Canon, Pentax, and Zeiss (35 mm) choices,
with very few (notable) exceptions.

The best camera for you will be the one that does not hinder your
creative vision. With that in mind, I still use a (well maintained) Nikon
FE for much of my work. I am far from famous, though it is interesting
that Antonin Kratochvil still uses a Nikon FE, even after decades of
using many cameras. In case you don't recognize his name, check out:

http://www.sevenphoto.com/ Some of the top level in photographers,
though mostly photojournalists, or advertising and editorial based work.
Now with nine photographers.

Okay, if I were to be specific, here are the manual focus cameras I would
check into:
Nikon FE
Nikon FE2
Nikon F3
Nikon F4
Canon F1
Canon A1
Pentax LX
Pentax MX
Contax RTS III

Best of luck, and happy hunting.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com Updated!

That is about the dumbest thing youve ever said, Dallas. Anyone would be an
idiot to learn on film when the feedback is immediate from digital - it is
(like video tape) a much better learning tool. You are doing that old
pathetic game of claiming "Everyone must learn exactly the way I learned -
It is the only true path to enlightenment". This is complete bull****e - in
photography, in religion, and in life. Grow up and learn to see the way the
world actually operates, then take the time to think about what you say.
Otherwise you should be advocating Dagerreotype as the only way to learn
photography and mixing your own pigments from raw materials as the only way
to paint.
Your argument is about as rational as insisting everyone must learn how
to drive on a Ford Model T with a hand crank starter.

--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from my novel "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
"Dallas" wrote in message
newsan.2004.08.19.18.00.39.202000@southafrican.. .
On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:14:03 +0000, Tony Spadaro wrote:

Canon EOS has simple lens mount compatibility and IS lenses. Any Canon
lens you buy for a film SLR now will be usable on their digital SLRs
too.
IF you are serious about photography you might want to go directly to
digital.

Are you kidding? The only thing he'll learn is how to press delete
repeatedly. Digital helps, but you still have to learn the principle
behind photography and nothing is better than doing it on film. It forces
you to think about what you're doing. It forces you to get it right.

--
Dallas
Group guidelines on http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
Improve signal to noise ratio by filtering all crossposts.

That is about the dumbest thing youve ever said, Dallas. Anyone would be an
idiot to learn on film when the feedback is immediate from digital - it is
(like video tape) a much better learning tool. You are doing that old
pathetic game of claiming "Everyone must learn exactly the way I learned -
It is the only true path to enlightenment". This is complete bull****e - in
photography, in religion, and in life. Grow up and learn to see the way the
world actually operates, then take the time to think about what you say.
Otherwise you should be advocating Dagerreotype as the only way to learn
photography and mixing your own pigments from raw materials as the only way
to paint.
Your argument is about as rational as insisting everyone must learn how
to drive on a Ford Model T with a hand crank starter.

--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from my novel "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
"Dallas" wrote in message
newsan.2004.08.19.18.00.39.202000@southafrican.. .
On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:14:03 +0000, Tony Spadaro wrote:

Canon EOS has simple lens mount compatibility and IS lenses. Any Canon
lens you buy for a film SLR now will be usable on their digital SLRs
too.
IF you are serious about photography you might want to go directly to
digital.

Are you kidding? The only thing he'll learn is how to press delete
repeatedly. Digital helps, but you still have to learn the principle
behind photography and nothing is better than doing it on film. It forces
you to think about what you're doing. It forces you to get it right.

--
Dallas
Group guidelines on http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
Improve signal to noise ratio by filtering all crossposts.

Dallas writes:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:14:03 +0000, Tony Spadaro wrote:

Canon EOS has simple lens mount compatibility and IS lenses. Any Canon
lens you buy for a film SLR now will be usable on their digital SLRs too.
IF you are serious about photography you might want to go directly to
digital.

Are you kidding? The only thing he'll learn is how to press delete
repeatedly. Digital helps, but you still have to learn the principle
behind photography and nothing is better than doing it on film. It forces
you to think about what you're doing. It forces you to get it right.

It also moves discovering your mistakes far enough from making them
that, for many people, it's terribly difficult to learn. Digital is
*immensely* good for teaching people basic photography.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

Dallas writes:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:14:03 +0000, Tony Spadaro wrote:

Canon EOS has simple lens mount compatibility and IS lenses. Any Canon
lens you buy for a film SLR now will be usable on their digital SLRs too.
IF you are serious about photography you might want to go directly to
digital.

Are you kidding? The only thing he'll learn is how to press delete
repeatedly. Digital helps, but you still have to learn the principle
behind photography and nothing is better than doing it on film. It forces
you to think about what you're doing. It forces you to get it right.

It also moves discovering your mistakes far enough from making them
that, for many people, it's terribly difficult to learn. Digital is
*immensely* good for teaching people basic photography.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

"Tony Spadaro" wrote in message . rr.com...
IF you are serious about photography you might want to go directly
to
digital.
That up for debate and the OP already has a digital.
What is up for debate? Save for the lens for the DRebel ALL EOS lenses fit
and fully function on ALL EOS cameras - Is that too hard a concept for you?

Hi Tony,

your remark to go directly to digital if you are serious about
photography is up for debate.
IMHO the best way to learn photography is shooting slides.
The digital market is rapidly improving, getting better every month.
The OP is looking for a used SLR, many film-SLR's, not so many
digitals-SLR's in that market.

Peter