MF Digital Back: What Is Needed To Differetiate From 35mm-DSLR

Bob Monaghan wrote:


well, there is a 22 MP sensor with 40mm x 51mm chip (cf 42x56mm for full
frame 645) that is 48 bit RGB (130 MB raw file) at up to 1.8 images/second
and available in sinar back and phase one H25 for hassy and mamiya RZ (and
others with an adapter). The price is high because volumes are so low and
fast obsolescence, so R&D etc. has to be recaptured at low volumes being
sold in first year. As production continues, prices are likely to drop a
lot in % terms, but will still be pricey due to small sales numbers IMHO

Consider that a new hasselblad back is nearly $900 by itself for a shell
and minimal mechanics, no electronics, and oh yeah, a darkslide ;-). The
22MP chips may well be $3k each in volume, but the cost of packaging and
recovering R&D costs and advertising for modest sales numbers is driving
the cost Waaay up ;-)

unfortunately, I don't see enough volume sales in MF to get volumes up
enough for real economy of scale price cuts ;-(



But once the R&D costs are recovered, the prices could drop to sell more
units. Look at the prices for LCD monitors. 3 years ago a 19in monitor was
over $2000, now they are under $600.

--

Stacey

The film size difference and the benefit between the 135 vs. 120 is
obvious. It clearly differentiate the medium format from the 35mm
format. In ht digital world, if the image sensors keep the size ration
between the two and keep everything else equally scaled, the MF/35mm
difference (and the .vs war on the web) should live on. However, it is
not happening that way.

Now the commdity 35mm DSLR image sensors are in the range of 24mm x
16mm to 36mm x 24mm, and very likely will all reach 36mm x 24mm very
soon, with color depth 12-bit/channel and up, and price on the earth
below $1k,

But what about medium format? 40mm x 40mm maximun? and the cost? Nay
....

My requirements are, I can tolerate the full frame 645, but 6x6 is
prefered. Better yet, make it 6x7 universal, but with different
adapter to fit different cameras so that the volumn canbring the cost
down. The color depth should be 12-bit/channel in the low end and
16-bit for better. Price? $3k.

Of course, this is just a dream, not much hope to see it in reality.

well, there is a 22 MP sensor with 40mm x 51mm chip (cf 42x56mm for full
frame 645) that is 48 bit RGB (130 MB raw file) at up to 1.8 images/second
and available in sinar back and phase one H25 for hassy and mamiya RZ (and
others with an adapter). The price is high because volumes are so low and
fast obsolescence, so R&D etc. has to be recaptured at low volumes being
sold in first year. As production continues, prices are likely to drop a
lot in % terms, but will still be pricey due to small sales numbers IMHO

Consider that a new hasselblad back is nearly $900 by itself for a shell
and minimal mechanics, no electronics, and oh yeah, a darkslide ;-). The
22MP chips may well be $3k each in volume, but the cost of packaging and
recovering R&D costs and advertising for modest sales numbers is driving
the cost Waaay up ;-)

unfortunately, I don't see enough volume sales in MF to get volumes up
enough for real economy of scale price cuts ;-(

my $.02
bobm

--
************************************************** *********************
* Robert Monaghan POB 752182 Southern Methodist Univ. Dallas Tx 75275 *
********************Standard Disclaimers Apply*************************

Not sure if the prices are dropping quickly enough, though. I'm still seeing
Mega Image's S3 6MP 36 x 24mm Philips digital back for MF going for around
$15K US. And it's far from portable out of the box . . . to make it portable
it's a $3000 option package.

Phase One has a new series, the P-series coming out summer of this year . .
.. 25MP and full frame 645, I think. And it'll work with the contax 645 . . .
have to see what that's like. If only the digital back, power, and
connectivity I need could be all had for under $9K =)

- K

"Stacey" wrote in message
...
Bob Monaghan wrote:


well, there is a 22 MP sensor with 40mm x 51mm chip (cf 42x56mm for full
frame 645) that is 48 bit RGB (130 MB raw file) at up to 1.8
images/second
and available in sinar back and phase one H25 for hassy and mamiya RZ
(and
others with an adapter). The price is high because volumes are so low
and
fast obsolescence, so R&D etc. has to be recaptured at low volumes being
sold in first year. As production continues, prices are likely to drop a
lot in % terms, but will still be pricey due to small sales numbers IMHO

Consider that a new hasselblad back is nearly $900 by itself for a shell
and minimal mechanics, no electronics, and oh yeah, a darkslide ;-). The
22MP chips may well be $3k each in volume, but the cost of packaging and
recovering R&D costs and advertising for modest sales numbers is driving
the cost Waaay up ;-)

unfortunately, I don't see enough volume sales in MF to get volumes up
enough for real economy of scale price cuts ;-(



But once the R&D costs are recovered, the prices could drop to sell more
units. Look at the prices for LCD monitors. 3 years ago a 19in monitor was
over $2000, now they are under $600.

--

Stacey

unfortunately, I don't see enough volume sales in MF to get volumes up
enough for real economy of scale price cuts ;-(



But once the R&D costs are recovered, the prices could drop to sell more
units. Look at the prices for LCD monitors. 3 years ago a 19in monitor was
over $2000, now they are under $600.

Stacey

Of course LCD monitors are manufactured in the millions. How many MF digital
backs are sold worldwide each year? A few thousand?

-Jack

Jack wrote:

unfortunately, I don't see enough volume sales in MF to get volumes up
enough for real economy of scale price cuts ;-(



But once the R&D costs are recovered, the prices could drop to sell more
units. Look at the prices for LCD monitors. 3 years ago a 19in monitor
was over $2000, now they are under $600.

Stacey

Of course LCD monitors are manufactured in the millions. How many MF
digital backs are sold worldwide each year? A few thousand?



If they were $1500 they might sell quite a few more of them? How many
digital SLR's were sold when they were $12,000?

--

Stacey

35mm DSLR is energized by two important factors that MF can't share
with:
-1st, there is much bigger exsisting customer base for a new DSLR
body.
-2nd, those customers are willing to accept down graded frame size.

As you said, there are not enough existing MF users that are
interested in MF backs, at least far less than any of Nikon or canon.
And then for those are interested, they are less willing to accept the
down sized back. If you give them 24mm x 36mm or even 40mm x 40mm,
they will ask " then why not 35mm dlsr"




(Bob Monaghan) wrote in message ...

unfortunately, I don't see enough volume sales in MF to get volumes up
enough for real economy of scale price cuts ;-(

my $.02
bobm