first TLR, very cheap

William Mutch wrote:

- flexaret VII

?? Anyone on the board ever *used* a Flexaret VII ?? Their
enlargers were excellant machines...way undervalued in the market. I
own a Meopta 80mm f5.6 enlarging lens which is a knockoff of an apo-
componon and an excellent lens. I've never handled one of their TLR's

I have a Flexaret Standard, which is the red window version,
I like it a lot. The lens doesn't seem to be as contrasty as
the Xenar on my Rolleiflex, but it still seems to do a credible
job at f/5.6 and smaller. The Flexaret is better suited to
tripod use than the Rolleiflex. The flexaret seats very well
on my 3/8" thread manfrotto hex-plate, and the back opens from the
top, so that I can load film when the camera is on the tripod.

Peter.
--

The Flexaret VII is a good camera if the shutter is operating properly. The
shutter is one of the few that the shutter blades rotate 180 degrees, this
means that when you cock the shutter the blades reverse and go through an
open cycle. In order to prevent exposing the film, the diaphragm blades
close all of the way down and act as a blind. Then when you trip the
shutter, just prior to the blades starting to open the diaphragm opens up to
the set value, blades open and then close. This shutter is tricky to keep
in adjustment and most repair shops have never seen a shutter like it. The
Flexaret V and VI have a standard design shutter that is more reliable. Be
aware that the coatings on the lenses are very soft and typical lens
cleaning fluid has been known to remove the coatings.

The Autocords are excellent cameras with only one common problem. The focus
helix grease is known to harden up. If someone forces the focus lever when
the grease has hardened, the lever breaks. So, if you get an Autocord make
sure that the focus helix has been relubed. The Autocord came with 2
different shutters, Citizen (Optiper) and Seikosha. Many prefer the Citizen
shutter, but I personally don't see much difference in them. I have had no
problems repairing either one. If you do find a camera that has had the
focus helix relubed, make sure that the camera has been recollimated. About
half of the Autocords that I service are out of focus due to being serviced
without the proper autocollimator test equipment. Most of the Autocords
appear to have a lens that should easily give 80 line per millimeter (much
sharper than the Yashica or even Rolleiflexes). One of the more dependable
cameras around (my preference for buying and repairing).

Ricoh 66 is an anomaly camera better left to a collector. The Ricohmatic
225 is very similar in design to the Autocord (same film path for maximum
film flatness, same excellent lens, similar focus helix but rarely does the
grease dry out, better baffling than the Autocord). One of the things that
I have noticed on the Ricoh camera is the ground glass appears to only show
about 92% of what will show up on film, whereas the Autocord is closer to
95%. The Ricoh Diacord is an equally good camera as the Ricohmatic 225 but
it does not have a crank film transport or auto cocking of the shutter. The
main thing to watch out for on a Diacord is the knob wind should only go in
one direction (about 2/3 of the Diacords/Dias that I repair have a broken
film wind knob). The Ricohmatic 225 is an excellent and durable camera with
the bonus of 35mm film capability, this is a very dependable camera. The
Ricoh/Ricohflex Diacord/Dia cameras are simpler quite dependable (manual
film cocking, knob wind).

The Yashica with a Yashinon lens typically is quite good. I have found
several examples where the focus moves as you adjust the diaphragm (this is
due to the diaphragm not being at the lens nodal point). The Yashicamat
124G last model is mostly plastic (front lens board cover is plastic) and
the wind mechanism is very cheap (sounds like a coffee grinder when you wind
it). The earlier Yashicamats (including the 12, 24 and 124) are well made.
My preference is to not work on a Yashica because of the frailness in the
whole camera design.

regards,
karl


"whitewave" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for a cheap tlr 6x6 twin lenses camera. I've read a lot
about Yashica 124, but I would like to know your comments on these
models:

- flexaret VII
- Minolta Autocord
- Ricoh 66
- Yashica D
- Yashica 635

Wich have the best lens? Wich is the more reliable?

Thanks a lot.

.....................................
Marco Baldovin
www.whitewave.it

Thanks for the informative post (I'm not the original poster). Do you have a
website for your repair services? I have a favorite Autocord that recently
died (shutter problems).



"kabkos" wrote in message
...
The Flexaret VII is a good camera if the shutter is operating properly.
The
shutter is one of the few that the shutter blades rotate 180 degrees, this
means that when you cock the shutter the blades reverse and go through an
open cycle. In order to prevent exposing the film, the diaphragm blades
close all of the way down and act as a blind. Then when you trip the
shutter, just prior to the blades starting to open the diaphragm opens up
to
the set value, blades open and then close. This shutter is tricky to keep
in adjustment and most repair shops have never seen a shutter like it.
The
Flexaret V and VI have a standard design shutter that is more reliable.
Be
aware that the coatings on the lenses are very soft and typical lens
cleaning fluid has been known to remove the coatings.

The Autocords are excellent cameras with only one common problem. The
focus
helix grease is known to harden up. If someone forces the focus lever
when
the grease has hardened, the lever breaks. So, if you get an Autocord
make
sure that the focus helix has been relubed. The Autocord came with 2
different shutters, Citizen (Optiper) and Seikosha. Many prefer the
Citizen
shutter, but I personally don't see much difference in them. I have had
no
problems repairing either one. If you do find a camera that has had the
focus helix relubed, make sure that the camera has been recollimated.
About
half of the Autocords that I service are out of focus due to being
serviced
without the proper autocollimator test equipment. Most of the Autocords
appear to have a lens that should easily give 80 line per millimeter (much
sharper than the Yashica or even Rolleiflexes). One of the more
dependable
cameras around (my preference for buying and repairing).

Ricoh 66 is an anomaly camera better left to a collector. The Ricohmatic
225 is very similar in design to the Autocord (same film path for maximum
film flatness, same excellent lens, similar focus helix but rarely does
the
grease dry out, better baffling than the Autocord). One of the things
that
I have noticed on the Ricoh camera is the ground glass appears to only
show
about 92% of what will show up on film, whereas the Autocord is closer to
95%. The Ricoh Diacord is an equally good camera as the Ricohmatic 225
but
it does not have a crank film transport or auto cocking of the shutter.
The
main thing to watch out for on a Diacord is the knob wind should only go
in
one direction (about 2/3 of the Diacords/Dias that I repair have a broken
film wind knob). The Ricohmatic 225 is an excellent and durable camera
with
the bonus of 35mm film capability, this is a very dependable camera. The
Ricoh/Ricohflex Diacord/Dia cameras are simpler quite dependable (manual
film cocking, knob wind).

The Yashica with a Yashinon lens typically is quite good. I have found
several examples where the focus moves as you adjust the diaphragm (this
is
due to the diaphragm not being at the lens nodal point). The Yashicamat
124G last model is mostly plastic (front lens board cover is plastic) and
the wind mechanism is very cheap (sounds like a coffee grinder when you
wind
it). The earlier Yashicamats (including the 12, 24 and 124) are well
made.
My preference is to not work on a Yashica because of the frailness in the
whole camera design.

regards,
karl


"whitewave" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for a cheap tlr 6x6 twin lenses camera. I've read a lot
about Yashica 124, but I would like to know your comments on these
models:

- flexaret VII
- Minolta Autocord
- Ricoh 66
- Yashica D
- Yashica 635

Wich have the best lens? Wich is the more reliable?

Thanks a lot.

.....................................
Marco Baldovin
www.whitewave.it

Bob in Las Vegas


Thanks a lot, Bob. Your answer was very useful, in few words you
described all the yashica tlr models.
I understood it's important to look for a Tessar like lense, 4
lenses.
But it isn't true that EM or LM goes for 50$, the price for all
these camera from Yashica are very high on ebay.
This was the reason I'm looking for alternatives.


......................................
Marco Baldovin
www.whitewave.it

Il 16 Mar 2004 18:26:36 GMT, (KFritch) ha scritto:

the Ricoh 66, it was a clone of the rolleimagic - an attempt at an
automatic tlr. The idea went nowhere. Richoh did, however make some fairly
good tlrs which are, in my opinion, underpriced for the quality. They have
excellent tessar formula coated lenses and good internal baffles to control for
reflected light in the film chamber. I'm referring to the Diacord and the
Ricohmatic 225. I've used the Diacord L quite a bit and fount the results from
it to be sharp with excellent contrast.
(Note: I'm generally shooting around f8 to f11 give or take a stop.). I've
seen decent ones go for under $50.



Ok, thanks. After reading your reply I read on internet that it can't
be used in manual mode, as the Roleimagic. No! I dont' want anything
similar to these.
Diacord were suggested to me by other people, too.
But on ebay they are very rare (now only one), so the prices are
quite high.

Bye.
......................................
Marco Baldovin
www.whitewave.it

"whitewave" wrote in message
...

But it isn't true that EM or LM goes for 50$, the price for all
these camera from Yashica are very high on ebay.

I have seen many photographic items on eBay that were priced higher than
they could be purchased from photo dealers' web sites. eBay is not always
the most economical source for used equipment.

Either the sellers believe that what they are offering is "rare," and price
it in accordance with those expectations, or buyers are not knowledgeable
about appropriate prices, and they offer more than items are worth. Either
way, it is hit-or-miss when it comes to finding bargains on eBay.

Even worse is the tendency of the seller to overrate the condition of the
item, so you don't often know how much of a bargain you got until you
receive it and inspect it yourself.

You might find the following online site helpful as a guide to pricing used
photo equipment:

http://photographics.com

Thanks a lot.
Many suggestions based on serious skillfullness in camera repairing.

Bye.

Marco. from Italy.

......................................
Marco Baldovin
www.whitewave.it

I have seen many photographic items on eBay that were priced higher than
they could be purchased from photo dealers' web sites. eBay is not always
the most economical source for used equipment.

Here in Italy it's very hard to find these old tlrs. Every country
has his own beliefs. (For example in USA, Bronica cameras are used by
pro, but here in Italy they're considered just a little bit than a toy
camera!)

So I looked at Adorama.com and bhphotovideo.com. Try to make a look
at the prices they're selling a Yashica 124 for example.
For the same money it's possible to buy a Rolleicord Vb on ebay, or
even a true Rolleiflex.

Bye.
......................................
Marco Baldovin
www.whitewave.it

I've never owned an EM or LM, so I'm going on hearsay and what I've read
elsewhere, but ...

The EM and LM have selenium light meters, a material that produces an
electrical field when exposed to light. This allows them to work without a
battery. So what's the downside? Poor light sensitivity - the meter won't
be helpful in low light.

The lenses on the oldest Yashis have names like Luximar and Yashimar. I've
read enough claims of poor performance and counterclaims of fair performance
to conclude that the quality of the lenses on the early Yashis wasn't
necessarily consistent. So buying one is risky. The Yashikor lens isn't as
good as the Yashinon, but in either case, you can count of what you're
getting.

Bob in Las Vegas

"whitewave" wrote in message
...

Bob in Las Vegas


Thanks a lot, Bob. Your answer was very useful, in few words you
described all the yashica tlr models.
I understood it's important to look for a Tessar like lense, 4
lenses.
But it isn't true that EM or LM goes for 50$, the price for all
these camera from Yashica are very high on ebay.
This was the reason I'm looking for alternatives.


.....................................
Marco Baldovin
www.whitewave.it

"whitewave" wrote:
Bob in Las Vegas

Thanks a lot, Bob. Your answer was very useful, in few words you
described all the yashica tlr models.
I understood it's important to look for a Tessar like lense, 4
lenses.
But it isn't true that EM or LM goes for 50$, the price for all
these camera from Yashica are very high on ebay.
This was the reason I'm looking for alternatives.

I suppose US$499 is out of your price range, but KEH has a "bargain"
condition Rolleiflex 2.8D with a Schneider Xenotar lens for US$499. Since
anything you get from ebay will probably need US$100 of work, looking for a
cheap Rollei knock-off when you could have the real thing for only a bit
more money strikes me as penny-wise pound foolish. KEH's "bargain" grade
cameras are functional, have clean glass, and a guarantee. And the Xenotar
is as good a lens as money can buy.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan