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Digital back!



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 18th 04, 11:16 PM
Mojtaba
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Digital back!

Hi,
Please excuse my primitive question. I am not familiar with medium
format systems rather than my very first camera which was a Lubitel 2.
I am sure many medium format users will not like Lubitel to be called
a medium format. Anyhow, I have always been aware of the quality of
medium format but as i am a hobbyist the expensive price of the
equipment and specially development has been a hinder for me.
Now, once again I am looking at MF systems, may be I can get into this
realm as well. While looking at cameras I come to the concept of
digital back. What does it do? Does it change the camera to a didital
camera or only shows the pictures on an LCD screen?

regards,

Mojtaba
  #2  
Old August 19th 04, 07:18 PM
Q.G. de Bakker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mojtaba wrote:

Please excuse my primitive question. I am not familiar with medium
format systems rather than my very first camera which was a Lubitel 2.
I am sure many medium format users will not like Lubitel to be called
a medium format. Anyhow, I have always been aware of the quality of
medium format but as i am a hobbyist the expensive price of the
equipment and specially development has been a hinder for me.


As long as you are having fun, it doesn't matter what camera you are using,
or how much/little its costs.
(Which is a thing some (former?) Kiev adepts residing in this group have
trouble understanding... ;-))

And a Lubitel definitely is a MF camera.

Now, once again I am looking at MF systems, may be I can get into this
realm as well. While looking at cameras I come to the concept of
digital back. What does it do? Does it change the camera to a didital
camera or only shows the pictures on an LCD screen?


A digital back does change a MF camera into a digital camera, yes.
It simply replaces the 'normal' back holding film with one having an
electronic sensor instead.
So instead of recording the image on film, it is recorded and stored
electronically.
It must be downloaded to a computer, where it can be used as any other
digital image file.

Digital backs for MF cameras today are still far too expensive.
Since digital photography definitely is the future of photography, and
though many people will keep using film (as well), MF manufacturers will be
either moving towards producing more and cheaper ways of producing MF
digital images (cheaper backs, digital-only cameras even), or stop producing
MF cameras.

Theoretically, the format advantage that makes MF film produce better
results than 35 mm film (and larger formats even better still) still holds
in the digital world.
Larger chips, with more area can either accomodate more pixels, have bigger
pixels and thus less noise, or both.
So if/when they manage to produce larger chips that do deliver beter quality
than the smaller sensors now in use in both 35 mm format based digital
cameras and digital MF backs, there will still be a reason to produce these
large and heavy MF cameras we have and use today.
If not, we might as well switch to 35 mm format based machines for our
digital photography, and (again) MF manufacturers can stop producing MF
cameras.


  #3  
Old August 19th 04, 07:18 PM
Q.G. de Bakker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mojtaba wrote:

Please excuse my primitive question. I am not familiar with medium
format systems rather than my very first camera which was a Lubitel 2.
I am sure many medium format users will not like Lubitel to be called
a medium format. Anyhow, I have always been aware of the quality of
medium format but as i am a hobbyist the expensive price of the
equipment and specially development has been a hinder for me.


As long as you are having fun, it doesn't matter what camera you are using,
or how much/little its costs.
(Which is a thing some (former?) Kiev adepts residing in this group have
trouble understanding... ;-))

And a Lubitel definitely is a MF camera.

Now, once again I am looking at MF systems, may be I can get into this
realm as well. While looking at cameras I come to the concept of
digital back. What does it do? Does it change the camera to a didital
camera or only shows the pictures on an LCD screen?


A digital back does change a MF camera into a digital camera, yes.
It simply replaces the 'normal' back holding film with one having an
electronic sensor instead.
So instead of recording the image on film, it is recorded and stored
electronically.
It must be downloaded to a computer, where it can be used as any other
digital image file.

Digital backs for MF cameras today are still far too expensive.
Since digital photography definitely is the future of photography, and
though many people will keep using film (as well), MF manufacturers will be
either moving towards producing more and cheaper ways of producing MF
digital images (cheaper backs, digital-only cameras even), or stop producing
MF cameras.

Theoretically, the format advantage that makes MF film produce better
results than 35 mm film (and larger formats even better still) still holds
in the digital world.
Larger chips, with more area can either accomodate more pixels, have bigger
pixels and thus less noise, or both.
So if/when they manage to produce larger chips that do deliver beter quality
than the smaller sensors now in use in both 35 mm format based digital
cameras and digital MF backs, there will still be a reason to produce these
large and heavy MF cameras we have and use today.
If not, we might as well switch to 35 mm format based machines for our
digital photography, and (again) MF manufacturers can stop producing MF
cameras.


  #4  
Old August 19th 04, 08:07 PM
Gordon Moat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mojtaba wrote:

Hi,
Please excuse my primitive question. I am not familiar with medium
format systems rather than my very first camera which was a Lubitel 2.
I am sure many medium format users will not like Lubitel to be called
a medium format. Anyhow, I have always been aware of the quality of
medium format but as i am a hobbyist the expensive price of the
equipment and specially development has been a hinder for me.
Now, once again I am looking at MF systems, may be I can get into this
realm as well. While looking at cameras I come to the concept of
digital back. What does it do? Does it change the camera to a didital
camera or only shows the pictures on an LCD screen?


I will give a somewhat brief overview of these digital backs. Obviously,
I am leaving out a great deal of information, so feel free to ask more
questions.

Basically, the older digital backs were either a scanning or one-shot
back. The differences are that a scanning back moved the chip, and really
only worked well for scenes without anything moving in them. They
produced a digital file, that often needed to be immediately downloaded
to a computer. This was called a tethered digital back. So those older
backs did not have an LCD for image viewing, and instead the view of what
you just photographed needed to be seen on a computer monitor. That was
okay for studio work, but not practical to carry on location.

Newer digital backs also just produce a digital file, though a few have
an LCD screen to review the images. Some are still tethered operation, or
can be used attached to a computer when you want to do that. Almost all
now available have built in image file storage, making them fairly
portable.

The older digital back designs were mostly constructed to attach to a
Hasselblad, though some adapters were available for other companies. In
theory, almost any medium format camera that could mount a Hasselblad
film back, could probably mount an older digital back. The older adapters
are much tougher to find, and getting a newer adapter could be difficult
for an older back.

New digital backs are still very expensive, and best left to rich
amateurs, or a handful of professionals. It would be far lower cost in
most cases to get a film scanner, or have a pro lab scan film for you. If
you are curious about the older gear, these sometimes appear on EBAY,
with a few going for under $2000. The greatest problem of the old
one-shot digital backs is that most sensor sizes are only 36 mm by 36 mm
square, which is much smaller than the approximately 56 mm by 56 mm
square of many medium format cameras. That much of a crop really makes
expensive medium format wide angle lenses give a not so wide view.

If you are curious about the EBAY route of used gear, look for "Leaf",
"PhaseOne", or "Imacon" in your searches. You could also try "medium
format digital back". Happy hunting.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com/gallery.html Updated!

  #5  
Old August 19th 04, 08:07 PM
Gordon Moat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mojtaba wrote:

Hi,
Please excuse my primitive question. I am not familiar with medium
format systems rather than my very first camera which was a Lubitel 2.
I am sure many medium format users will not like Lubitel to be called
a medium format. Anyhow, I have always been aware of the quality of
medium format but as i am a hobbyist the expensive price of the
equipment and specially development has been a hinder for me.
Now, once again I am looking at MF systems, may be I can get into this
realm as well. While looking at cameras I come to the concept of
digital back. What does it do? Does it change the camera to a didital
camera or only shows the pictures on an LCD screen?


I will give a somewhat brief overview of these digital backs. Obviously,
I am leaving out a great deal of information, so feel free to ask more
questions.

Basically, the older digital backs were either a scanning or one-shot
back. The differences are that a scanning back moved the chip, and really
only worked well for scenes without anything moving in them. They
produced a digital file, that often needed to be immediately downloaded
to a computer. This was called a tethered digital back. So those older
backs did not have an LCD for image viewing, and instead the view of what
you just photographed needed to be seen on a computer monitor. That was
okay for studio work, but not practical to carry on location.

Newer digital backs also just produce a digital file, though a few have
an LCD screen to review the images. Some are still tethered operation, or
can be used attached to a computer when you want to do that. Almost all
now available have built in image file storage, making them fairly
portable.

The older digital back designs were mostly constructed to attach to a
Hasselblad, though some adapters were available for other companies. In
theory, almost any medium format camera that could mount a Hasselblad
film back, could probably mount an older digital back. The older adapters
are much tougher to find, and getting a newer adapter could be difficult
for an older back.

New digital backs are still very expensive, and best left to rich
amateurs, or a handful of professionals. It would be far lower cost in
most cases to get a film scanner, or have a pro lab scan film for you. If
you are curious about the older gear, these sometimes appear on EBAY,
with a few going for under $2000. The greatest problem of the old
one-shot digital backs is that most sensor sizes are only 36 mm by 36 mm
square, which is much smaller than the approximately 56 mm by 56 mm
square of many medium format cameras. That much of a crop really makes
expensive medium format wide angle lenses give a not so wide view.

If you are curious about the EBAY route of used gear, look for "Leaf",
"PhaseOne", or "Imacon" in your searches. You could also try "medium
format digital back". Happy hunting.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com/gallery.html Updated!

  #6  
Old August 19th 04, 11:15 PM
Mojtaba
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:18:59 +0200, "Q.G. de Bakker"
wrote:

Mojtaba wrote:

Please excuse my primitive question. I am not familiar with medium
format systems rather than my very first camera which was a Lubitel 2.
I am sure many medium format users will not like Lubitel to be called
a medium format. Anyhow, I have always been aware of the quality of
medium format but as i am a hobbyist the expensive price of the
equipment and specially development has been a hinder for me.


As long as you are having fun, it doesn't matter what camera you are using,
or how much/little its costs.
(Which is a thing some (former?) Kiev adepts residing in this group have
trouble understanding... ;-))

And a Lubitel definitely is a MF camera.

Now, once again I am looking at MF systems, may be I can get into this
realm as well. While looking at cameras I come to the concept of
digital back. What does it do? Does it change the camera to a didital
camera or only shows the pictures on an LCD screen?


A digital back does change a MF camera into a digital camera, yes.
It simply replaces the 'normal' back holding film with one having an
electronic sensor instead.
So instead of recording the image on film, it is recorded and stored
electronically.
It must be downloaded to a computer, where it can be used as any other
digital image file.

Digital backs for MF cameras today are still far too expensive.
Since digital photography definitely is the future of photography, and
though many people will keep using film (as well), MF manufacturers will be
either moving towards producing more and cheaper ways of producing MF
digital images (cheaper backs, digital-only cameras even), or stop producing
MF cameras.

Theoretically, the format advantage that makes MF film produce better
results than 35 mm film (and larger formats even better still) still holds
in the digital world.
Larger chips, with more area can either accomodate more pixels, have bigger
pixels and thus less noise, or both.
So if/when they manage to produce larger chips that do deliver beter quality
than the smaller sensors now in use in both 35 mm format based digital
cameras and digital MF backs, there will still be a reason to produce these
large and heavy MF cameras we have and use today.
If not, we might as well switch to 35 mm format based machines for our
digital photography, and (again) MF manufacturers can stop producing MF
cameras.

I am grateful for your detailed respons, Thank you.

best regards,

Mojtaba

  #7  
Old August 19th 04, 11:15 PM
Mojtaba
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:18:59 +0200, "Q.G. de Bakker"
wrote:

Mojtaba wrote:

Please excuse my primitive question. I am not familiar with medium
format systems rather than my very first camera which was a Lubitel 2.
I am sure many medium format users will not like Lubitel to be called
a medium format. Anyhow, I have always been aware of the quality of
medium format but as i am a hobbyist the expensive price of the
equipment and specially development has been a hinder for me.


As long as you are having fun, it doesn't matter what camera you are using,
or how much/little its costs.
(Which is a thing some (former?) Kiev adepts residing in this group have
trouble understanding... ;-))

And a Lubitel definitely is a MF camera.

Now, once again I am looking at MF systems, may be I can get into this
realm as well. While looking at cameras I come to the concept of
digital back. What does it do? Does it change the camera to a didital
camera or only shows the pictures on an LCD screen?


A digital back does change a MF camera into a digital camera, yes.
It simply replaces the 'normal' back holding film with one having an
electronic sensor instead.
So instead of recording the image on film, it is recorded and stored
electronically.
It must be downloaded to a computer, where it can be used as any other
digital image file.

Digital backs for MF cameras today are still far too expensive.
Since digital photography definitely is the future of photography, and
though many people will keep using film (as well), MF manufacturers will be
either moving towards producing more and cheaper ways of producing MF
digital images (cheaper backs, digital-only cameras even), or stop producing
MF cameras.

Theoretically, the format advantage that makes MF film produce better
results than 35 mm film (and larger formats even better still) still holds
in the digital world.
Larger chips, with more area can either accomodate more pixels, have bigger
pixels and thus less noise, or both.
So if/when they manage to produce larger chips that do deliver beter quality
than the smaller sensors now in use in both 35 mm format based digital
cameras and digital MF backs, there will still be a reason to produce these
large and heavy MF cameras we have and use today.
If not, we might as well switch to 35 mm format based machines for our
digital photography, and (again) MF manufacturers can stop producing MF
cameras.

I am grateful for your detailed respons, Thank you.

best regards,

Mojtaba

  #8  
Old August 19th 04, 11:17 PM
Mojtaba
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:07:23 -0700, Gordon Moat
wrote:

Mojtaba wrote:

Hi,
Please excuse my primitive question. I am not familiar with medium
format systems rather than my very first camera which was a Lubitel 2.
I am sure many medium format users will not like Lubitel to be called
a medium format. Anyhow, I have always been aware of the quality of
medium format but as i am a hobbyist the expensive price of the
equipment and specially development has been a hinder for me.
Now, once again I am looking at MF systems, may be I can get into this
realm as well. While looking at cameras I come to the concept of
digital back. What does it do? Does it change the camera to a didital
camera or only shows the pictures on an LCD screen?


I will give a somewhat brief overview of these digital backs. Obviously,
I am leaving out a great deal of information, so feel free to ask more
questions.

Basically, the older digital backs were either a scanning or one-shot
back. The differences are that a scanning back moved the chip, and really
only worked well for scenes without anything moving in them. They
produced a digital file, that often needed to be immediately downloaded
to a computer. This was called a tethered digital back. So those older
backs did not have an LCD for image viewing, and instead the view of what
you just photographed needed to be seen on a computer monitor. That was
okay for studio work, but not practical to carry on location.

Newer digital backs also just produce a digital file, though a few have
an LCD screen to review the images. Some are still tethered operation, or
can be used attached to a computer when you want to do that. Almost all
now available have built in image file storage, making them fairly
portable.

The older digital back designs were mostly constructed to attach to a
Hasselblad, though some adapters were available for other companies. In
theory, almost any medium format camera that could mount a Hasselblad
film back, could probably mount an older digital back. The older adapters
are much tougher to find, and getting a newer adapter could be difficult
for an older back.

New digital backs are still very expensive, and best left to rich
amateurs, or a handful of professionals. It would be far lower cost in
most cases to get a film scanner, or have a pro lab scan film for you. If
you are curious about the older gear, these sometimes appear on EBAY,
with a few going for under $2000. The greatest problem of the old
one-shot digital backs is that most sensor sizes are only 36 mm by 36 mm
square, which is much smaller than the approximately 56 mm by 56 mm
square of many medium format cameras. That much of a crop really makes
expensive medium format wide angle lenses give a not so wide view.

If you are curious about the EBAY route of used gear, look for "Leaf",
"PhaseOne", or "Imacon" in your searches. You could also try "medium
format digital back". Happy hunting.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com/gallery.html Updated!


Thanks a lot for your great respons. I got the answer to what i
wondered about and a lot more.

best regards,

Mojtaba
  #9  
Old August 19th 04, 11:17 PM
Mojtaba
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:07:23 -0700, Gordon Moat
wrote:

Mojtaba wrote:

Hi,
Please excuse my primitive question. I am not familiar with medium
format systems rather than my very first camera which was a Lubitel 2.
I am sure many medium format users will not like Lubitel to be called
a medium format. Anyhow, I have always been aware of the quality of
medium format but as i am a hobbyist the expensive price of the
equipment and specially development has been a hinder for me.
Now, once again I am looking at MF systems, may be I can get into this
realm as well. While looking at cameras I come to the concept of
digital back. What does it do? Does it change the camera to a didital
camera or only shows the pictures on an LCD screen?


I will give a somewhat brief overview of these digital backs. Obviously,
I am leaving out a great deal of information, so feel free to ask more
questions.

Basically, the older digital backs were either a scanning or one-shot
back. The differences are that a scanning back moved the chip, and really
only worked well for scenes without anything moving in them. They
produced a digital file, that often needed to be immediately downloaded
to a computer. This was called a tethered digital back. So those older
backs did not have an LCD for image viewing, and instead the view of what
you just photographed needed to be seen on a computer monitor. That was
okay for studio work, but not practical to carry on location.

Newer digital backs also just produce a digital file, though a few have
an LCD screen to review the images. Some are still tethered operation, or
can be used attached to a computer when you want to do that. Almost all
now available have built in image file storage, making them fairly
portable.

The older digital back designs were mostly constructed to attach to a
Hasselblad, though some adapters were available for other companies. In
theory, almost any medium format camera that could mount a Hasselblad
film back, could probably mount an older digital back. The older adapters
are much tougher to find, and getting a newer adapter could be difficult
for an older back.

New digital backs are still very expensive, and best left to rich
amateurs, or a handful of professionals. It would be far lower cost in
most cases to get a film scanner, or have a pro lab scan film for you. If
you are curious about the older gear, these sometimes appear on EBAY,
with a few going for under $2000. The greatest problem of the old
one-shot digital backs is that most sensor sizes are only 36 mm by 36 mm
square, which is much smaller than the approximately 56 mm by 56 mm
square of many medium format cameras. That much of a crop really makes
expensive medium format wide angle lenses give a not so wide view.

If you are curious about the EBAY route of used gear, look for "Leaf",
"PhaseOne", or "Imacon" in your searches. You could also try "medium
format digital back". Happy hunting.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com/gallery.html Updated!


Thanks a lot for your great respons. I got the answer to what i
wondered about and a lot more.

best regards,

Mojtaba
 




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