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#31
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On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 12:56:25 -0000, "Bandicoot"
wrote: "Roxy d'Urban" wrote in message news On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 10:13:21 +0000, Walter Hofmann wrote: Owamanga schrieb: On 1 Mar 2005 10:24:26 -0800, "Chadwick" wrote: I think (but he *can* be confusing) Alan's point was film is in it's frozen state at room-temperature. Much like the glass in your lenses which are made of liquid that is frozen at the factory before being shipped to the stores. Luckily it stays frozen at the temperatures we use them at. No. The glass in lenses (and elsewhere) is still liquid! Is just flows very slowly. Walter I think you need to look up the meaning of the word "flow". Sorry Rox, but Walter is absolutely right. Take a micrometer to a really old window and you'll find every pane is thicker at the bottom than the top, due to flow. Of course, this takes a couple of hundred years before it's practically measurable. Na, urban legend. Just another lie we were taught at school by those too ignorant to know any better. -- Owamanga! |
#32
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Walter Hofmann wrote:
Owamanga schrieb: On 1 Mar 2005 10:24:26 -0800, "Chadwick" wrote: I think (but he *can* be confusing) Alan's point was film is in it's frozen state at room-temperature. Much like the glass in your lenses which are made of liquid that is frozen at the factory before being shipped to the stores. Luckily it stays frozen at the temperatures we use them at. No. The glass in lenses (and elsewhere) is still liquid! Is just flows very slowly. Myth http://www.glassnotes.com/WindowPanes.html -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. |
#33
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Walter Hofmann wrote:
Owamanga schrieb: On 1 Mar 2005 10:24:26 -0800, "Chadwick" wrote: I think (but he *can* be confusing) Alan's point was film is in it's frozen state at room-temperature. Much like the glass in your lenses which are made of liquid that is frozen at the factory before being shipped to the stores. Luckily it stays frozen at the temperatures we use them at. No. The glass in lenses (and elsewhere) is still liquid! Is just flows very slowly. Myth http://www.glassnotes.com/WindowPanes.html -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. |
#34
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"Chris Brown" wrote in message
... In article , jimkramer wrote: [glass flowing slowly] No, you need to broaden your time scales. And, maybe, Walter needs to add a few more very's. I'm afraid he's right, and you've falled for an urban myth. Yes, it's technically correct that (some) glasses are supercooled liquids, but they don't flow. The whole thing about medieval stained glass windows is, doubtless, going to be brought up soon, but it too is a myth. Old glass wasn't made to uniform thickness, and for every stained glass panel that's been in-situ for hundreds of years and is thicker at the bottom, there's another one that's thicker at the top. See : http://www.glassnotes.com/WindowPanes.html or any of the other myriad links you can get on Google by typing in, "glass flow myth" Thanks for the link. I particularly enjoyed: ASTM (1996) "D4359-90: Standard Test Method for Determining Whether a Material Is a Liquid or a Solid." You really have to love the guys that come up with the ASTM Standards, because every single one is good for some type humor either light hearted or very dark. Peter has been kind enough to add the glass panes. But just to be obnoxious I think I'll stick by what I said. And make the observation that most people can barely conceive of measurable changes in their lifetime; let alone thousands or millions of years. Jim |
#35
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"Chris Brown" wrote in message
... In article , jimkramer wrote: [glass flowing slowly] No, you need to broaden your time scales. And, maybe, Walter needs to add a few more very's. I'm afraid he's right, and you've falled for an urban myth. Yes, it's technically correct that (some) glasses are supercooled liquids, but they don't flow. The whole thing about medieval stained glass windows is, doubtless, going to be brought up soon, but it too is a myth. Old glass wasn't made to uniform thickness, and for every stained glass panel that's been in-situ for hundreds of years and is thicker at the bottom, there's another one that's thicker at the top. See : http://www.glassnotes.com/WindowPanes.html or any of the other myriad links you can get on Google by typing in, "glass flow myth" Thanks for the link. I particularly enjoyed: ASTM (1996) "D4359-90: Standard Test Method for Determining Whether a Material Is a Liquid or a Solid." You really have to love the guys that come up with the ASTM Standards, because every single one is good for some type humor either light hearted or very dark. Peter has been kind enough to add the glass panes. But just to be obnoxious I think I'll stick by what I said. And make the observation that most people can barely conceive of measurable changes in their lifetime; let alone thousands or millions of years. Jim |
#36
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In article ,
jimkramer wrote: I think I'll stick by what I said. And make the observation that most people can barely conceive of measurable changes in their lifetime; let alone thousands or millions of years. Reminds me of a joke set in my home town (Cambridge, UK). There's a group of fellows at one of the Cambridge colleges sitting around in the Master's Lodge after an evening meal at high table, and they're discussing how to invest a particularly large sum of money which has just been left to them by a successful alumnus. One of the fellows speaks up, "How about putting it in the stock market?" A particularly ancient looking fellow sitting next to him, in an old leather armchair interjects, "The stock market is volatile and subject to crashes. I think we should invest in property, as it hgiven us a very good return over the last five hundred years." This stirs a *seriously* ancient looking fellow in th ecorner, who looks thoughtful for a moment, and then says: "Perhaps, but the last five hundred years have not been typical." |
#37
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In article ,
jimkramer wrote: I think I'll stick by what I said. And make the observation that most people can barely conceive of measurable changes in their lifetime; let alone thousands or millions of years. Reminds me of a joke set in my home town (Cambridge, UK). There's a group of fellows at one of the Cambridge colleges sitting around in the Master's Lodge after an evening meal at high table, and they're discussing how to invest a particularly large sum of money which has just been left to them by a successful alumnus. One of the fellows speaks up, "How about putting it in the stock market?" A particularly ancient looking fellow sitting next to him, in an old leather armchair interjects, "The stock market is volatile and subject to crashes. I think we should invest in property, as it hgiven us a very good return over the last five hundred years." This stirs a *seriously* ancient looking fellow in th ecorner, who looks thoughtful for a moment, and then says: "Perhaps, but the last five hundred years have not been typical." |
#38
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jimkramer wrote:
I think I'll stick by what I said. And make the observation that most people can barely conceive of measurable changes in their lifetime; let alone thousands or millions of years. I was told about the flowing glass by an incredibly bright engineer and scientist who worked with me in the 80's/90's. I was awed. He changed his tune, years later, as he was finishing his solid state physics Ph.D (just before he left our co.). His work involved the behavoiur of laser light in various solids and demanded a keen understanding of solid structures, most of them glass (of many varieties) and other transparent solids. I tend to belive him, esp. in light of his changed story at the end of his Ph.D than all the various opinions and 'reasoning' I read on usenet... Cheers, Alan -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. |
#39
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jimkramer wrote:
I think I'll stick by what I said. And make the observation that most people can barely conceive of measurable changes in their lifetime; let alone thousands or millions of years. I was told about the flowing glass by an incredibly bright engineer and scientist who worked with me in the 80's/90's. I was awed. He changed his tune, years later, as he was finishing his solid state physics Ph.D (just before he left our co.). His work involved the behavoiur of laser light in various solids and demanded a keen understanding of solid structures, most of them glass (of many varieties) and other transparent solids. I tend to belive him, esp. in light of his changed story at the end of his Ph.D than all the various opinions and 'reasoning' I read on usenet... Cheers, Alan -- -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch. |
#40
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Walter Hofmann writes:
No. The glass in lenses (and elsewhere) is still liquid! Is just flows very slowly. Not true. That's an urban legend. -- Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. |
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