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#21
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Newsgroup quotes, message styles, etc.
"Alfred Molon"
Agree. Often messages are not trimmed, so you have to scroll down all the way, so top posting is better. But some people are very religious about this issue. That's why I often prefer to answer at the top of the message. The years that I spent on Fidonet (almost from the very beginning of this network which is already old) made me do that because it's physically impossible to review hundreds or even thousands of messages through the night scrolling them down each time when you open a new one. So we had a simple official rule to add the answer to the top of the message and trim the worthless parts to avoid overgrowing of the messages. I like this rule and I actually spent so many years following it that I even can't imagine another one as more appropriate. Another one significant rule - don't overquote! The downside of all that are the people who started their network activity from public usenet newsgroups only and they have no idea about the roots and advantages of these simple rules and what's that to read a few thousand messages in one night and even get some information from them These people usually argue against those who do that, in my mind, in more correct way by adding their answers to the top and deleting the overquoting. Usually 2-3 lines from the previous message is more than enough to remind the people what's all that about. Also I'd never write a message completely repeating the previous post with my comment in one single word like "Agreed". It would force a few thousands or real people to read this worthless message without any new info that they can learn from it. Logically all that is harder because in real life we add our comments after quotes, it's also hard to delete the secondary part from the previous posting, especially for lazy people, but why all others should not be lazy to real/scroll all these quotes down? My own experience shows that it's probably hard, but that's a network rule and it's hard only in the very beginning, but then after some experience the things become obvious. As for me I can follow any rules absolutely easy now because I used to see many people, mostly newbie, barking at others because they are doing the right things. Just D. |
#22
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Newsgroup quotes, message styles, etc.
"Just D" wrote:
"Alfred Molon" Agree. Often messages are not trimmed, so you have to scroll down all the way, so top posting is better. But some people are very religious about this issue. That does *not* make top posting better. It makes excessive quoting a pain. That's why I often prefer to answer at the top of the message. The years that I spent on Fidonet (almost from the very beginning of this network which is already old) made me do that because it's physically impossible to review hundreds or even thousands of messages through the night scrolling them down each time when you open a new one. So we had a simple official rule to add the answer to the top of the message and trim the worthless parts to avoid overgrowing of the messages. I like this rule and I actually spent so many years following it that I even can't imagine another one as more appropriate. Another one significant rule - don't overquote! Fidonet was restricted in many ways, and message editing facilities was just one example. The downside of all that are the people who started their network activity from public usenet newsgroups only and they have no idea about the roots and advantages of these simple rules and what's that to read a few thousand messages in one night and even get some information from them These people usually argue against those who do that, in my mind, in more correct way by adding their answers to the top and deleting the overquoting. Usually A. It has an illogical structure. Q. What's wrong with your method? Actually the reason people argue against your system is because they have enough experience to know which methods work best, and are not really concerned about a user's existing habits. Usenet was not restricted in the way Fidonet was. That was, in general, a manifestation of the origins. A group of exceedingly bright fellows, with a broad range of backgrounds, came up with the basics for Usenet, while Fidonet was the work of a single, very aggressive, individual (who's expertise was making due with an IBM PC, not text formatting). The extra smarts, not to mention the added technical facilities, is fairly obvious in the design... and one of the clearest examples is the default message formatting style. Fidonet users basically had the functionality of a very crude line editor. Usenet users had the functionality of either an extremely well developed line editor or a fairly crude screen editor. 2-3 lines from the previous message is more than enough to remind the people what's all that about. That is not only not true, that is not the purpose of quoting text from previous messages. It is not intended to be a reminder, nor to be something general in regard to what it was all about. Quoted text show *exactly* what a comment refers to. For example, this paragraph is not referencing any other part of your article, and without the above two lines of quoted text would simply not make sense. I've placed this paragraph directly beneath those two lines to totally disambiguate my comments. Also I'd never write a message completely repeating the previous post with my comment in one single word like "Agreed". It would force a few thousands or real people to read this worthless message without any new info that they can learn from it. Agreed. :-) Logically all that is harder because in real life we add our comments after quotes, I fail to see how writing ambiguous commentary is easier than writing to specifics unique to the quoted text. (Assuming of course that the object is to inform a *reader*... and I would agree with you if the object is to generate therapeutic noise to benefit the writer.) it's also hard to delete the secondary part from the previous posting, especially for lazy people, but why all others should not be lazy to real/scroll all these quotes down? My own experience shows that it's probably hard, but that's a network rule and it's hard only in the very beginning, but then after some experience the things become obvious. When using decent viewing software, and a good text editor to generate messages, none of that is difficult. Regardless, why people want to post articles that are more difficult to read and understand, is an interesting study in psychology. Not trimming, placing comments out of context, using odd quote marks, failing to use blank lines between paragraphs, long lines, and many other habits that in general are adaptions to the use of a specific editor to make _writing_ easy, are illogical! The point should be to generate and article that is easier to read and understand, and that might mean use of an editor that is highly configured specifically for Usenet article generation. As for me I can follow any rules absolutely easy now because I used to see many people, mostly newbie, barking at others because they are doing the right things. Pay more attention to folks that have been using Usenet since the early years. There are benefits that might not be obvious... one being that early on most Usenet writers had more education than the average person, and specifically were more aware of the development of "communications skills". Usenet, unlike the vast majority of other computer conversational networks, was actually well thought out and implemented with the idea of *communications*. -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
#23
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Newsgroup quotes, message styles, etc.
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#24
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Newsgroup quotes, message styles, etc.
Greg wrote:
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:10:37 -0900, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote: "Just D" wrote: "Alfred Molon" Agree. Often messages are not trimmed, so you have to scroll down all the way, so top posting is better. But some people are very religious about this issue. That does *not* make top posting better. It makes excessive quoting a pain. Thus proving his point about some people being very religious about top posting. Religion is faith based. My post had nothing to do with faith, unlike yours... :-) -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
#25
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Is a 1/1.8" (7.18 x 5.32 mm) sensor sufficient for 10mp and 12mp?
Well, one thing we don't need is the "Top Post Crusades..."
lol Agree. Often messages are not trimmed, so you have to scroll down all the way, so top posting is better. But some people are very religious about this issue. |
#26
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Newsgroup quotes, message styles, etc.
Let's not make this a "class system" thing, shall we?
It's a preference thing. Pay more attention to folks that have been using Usenet since the early years. There are benefits that might not be obvious... one being that early on most Usenet writers had more education than the average person, and specifically were more aware of the development of "communications skills". |
#27
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Newsgroup quotes, message styles, etc.
Indeed. lol...
That does *not* make top posting better. It makes excessive quoting a pain. Thus proving his point about some people being very religious about top posting. |
#28
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Newsgroup quotes, message styles, etc.
"Paul D. Sullivan" wrote:
Let's not make this a "class system" thing, shall we? It's a preference thing. It's a perception thing. Those who are able to perceive the significance of doing it the right way, do. Others don't. Pay more attention to folks that have been using Usenet since the early years. There are benefits that might not be obvious... one being that early on most Usenet writers had more education than the average person, and specifically were more aware of the development of "communications skills". -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
#29
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Newsgroup quotes, message styles, etc.
"Paul D. Sullivan" wrote:
Indeed. lol... That does *not* make top posting better. It makes excessive quoting a pain. Thus proving his point about some people being very religious about top posting. Another religion based response, virtually lacking any logical discussion... -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
#30
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Is a 1/1.8" (7.18 x 5.32 mm) sensor sufficient for 10mp and 12mp?
THO writes:
Unless its a nested reply, most people don't even bother reading the quoted text when they are following a thread since they've already read the text in a previous message. I follow the convention now but bottom posting wastes my time. You're supposed to chop out the parts that don't need to be read. |
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