Finding restaurants

In article , PAS wrote:

Whisky-dave:
So what you need to ask is why there's such a differnce.Why is
food dirt cheap in the USA, I was quite shocked at the price of a
Mars bar in sweden half the size and still over double the price
I was expecting.

There are a lot of factors that influence the price of a product.
We don't have a 20% VAT tax here, sales tax varies from one place
to another and I don't beleive there is any higher than 10% in the
USA. Also, someone has to pay for all that free stuff the
government hands out in a country like Sweden.

That VAT in Sweden is actually 25%, however - for restaurants it's a
"low"
12%

Wow, 25%! Do you pay VAT on food you buy in a grocery store?

Of course, but "only" 12%. The 12% VAT is for restaurants, groceries,
hotel/camping and personal art.

We pay 6% VAt for books (and similar items), public transport, entry fees
to conserts, parks etc, sport participation fees, museums and commercial
art (i.e. paintings, music etc)

Do you pay the full VAT on a car?

Yup, the full 25%.

I recall you mentioning that you bought a Dodge Charger (I, unlike you,
like the styling of the new model) and that made me wonder what that car
sells for in Sweden.

The MSRP for the Dodge Charger SRT8 is around $70k, which includes VAT,
import fees and regulation modifications. Mine is somewhat "enhanced" so
the price was a lot clsoer to $80k.

Mind you, for this type of car, this is not considered an overly pricey
car. It's great value for the money.






--
Sandman[.net]

"Sandman" wrote in message
...

In article , PAS
wrote:

Whisky-dave:
So what you need to ask is why there's such a differnce.Why is
food dirt cheap in the USA, I was quite shocked at the price of
a
Mars bar in sweden half the size and still over double the price
I was expecting.

There are a lot of factors that influence the price of a product.
We don't have a 20% VAT tax here, sales tax varies from one place
to another and I don't beleive there is any higher than 10% in the
USA. Also, someone has to pay for all that free stuff the
government hands out in a country like Sweden.

That VAT in Sweden is actually 25%, however - for restaurants it's a
"low"
12%

Wow, 25%! Do you pay VAT on food you buy in a grocery store?

Of course, but "only" 12%. The 12% VAT is for restaurants, groceries,
hotel/camping and personal art.

We pay 6% VAt for books (and similar items), public transport, entry
fees
to conserts, parks etc, sport participation fees, museums and
commercial
art (i.e. paintings, music etc)

Do you pay the full VAT on a car?

Yup, the full 25%.

I recall you mentioning that you bought a Dodge Charger (I, unlike
you,
like the styling of the new model) and that made me wonder what that
car
sells for in Sweden.

The MSRP for the Dodge Charger SRT8 is around $70k, which includes
VAT,
import fees and regulation modifications. Mine is somewhat "enhanced"
so
the price was a lot clsoer to $80k.

Mind you, for this type of car, this is not considered an overly
pricey
car. It's great value for the money.

The average price paid in my area for an SRT8 is around $53,000.00 US.
I don't know what enhancements were done to your car but around here
$80,000 is way, way overpriced for a Charger, even the new Hellcat. But
your price includes that whopping VAT tax and import fees. I had a 2005
Chrysler 300C with the V8. At the time, it was only 325 horse power.
But the chassis was solid as you noted since it was a Mercedes chassis
as well as the transmission. The Navigation/stereo system was also a
Mercedes component. That was the first model year for that new design,
the older design was front-wheel drive, had no V8 option, and was a 100%
Chrysler chassis. It has no resemblance to the newer model except for
the name. That car only lacked a sunroof and it cost me $35,000.00.

"PAS" wrote:
"Sandman" wrote in message ...

In article , PAS wrote:

Whisky-dave:
So what you need to ask is why there's such a differnce.Why is
food dirt cheap in the USA, I was quite shocked at the price of a
Mars bar in sweden half the size and still over double the price
I was expecting.

There are a lot of factors that influence the price of a product.
We don't have a 20% VAT tax here, sales tax varies from one place
to another and I don't beleive there is any higher than 10% in the
USA. Also, someone has to pay for all that free stuff the
government hands out in a country like Sweden.

That VAT in Sweden is actually 25%, however - for restaurants it's a
"low"
12%

Wow, 25%! Do you pay VAT on food you buy in a grocery store?

Of course, but "only" 12%. The 12% VAT is for restaurants, groceries,
hotel/camping and personal art.

We pay 6% VAt for books (and similar items), public transport, entry fees
to conserts, parks etc, sport participation fees, museums and commercial
art (i.e. paintings, music etc)

Do you pay the full VAT on a car?

Yup, the full 25%.

I recall you mentioning that you bought a Dodge Charger (I, unlike you,
like the styling of the new model) and that made me wonder what that car
sells for in Sweden.

The MSRP for the Dodge Charger SRT8 is around $70k, which includes VAT,
import fees and regulation modifications. Mine is somewhat "enhanced" so
the price was a lot clsoer to $80k.

Mind you, for this type of car, this is not considered an overly pricey
car. It's great value for the money.

The average price paid in my area for an SRT8 is around $53,000.00 US. I
don't know what enhancements were done to your car but around here
$80,000 is way, way overpriced for a Charger, even the new Hellcat. But
your price includes that whopping VAT tax and import fees. I had a 2005
Chrysler 300C with the V8. At the time, it was only 325 horse power. But
the chassis was solid as you noted since it was a Mercedes chassis as
well as the transmission. The Navigation/stereo system was also a
Mercedes component. That was the first model year for that new design,
the older design was front-wheel drive, had no V8 option, and was a 100%
Chrysler chassis. It has no resemblance to the newer model except for
the name. That car only lacked a sunroof and it cost me $35,000.00.

Damn!
My Mercedes E350, loaded cost me $56K.


--
Savageduck

In article , Sandman
wrote:

And, as I've said many times now, picking the "right"
restaurant is pretty hard for a foreigner with limited time
to do any research, which is my point. If you were in
downtown Västerås (where I live) and picked a restaurant at
random, you'd be sure that it has great quality food.

nospam:
not necessarily.

Sandman:
Incorrect.

proof? oh yea, there is none other than you saying so.

What would you consider proof? I mean, most reviews of downtown restaurants
would be in Swedish...

in other words, no proof.

****ty restaurants exist everywhere, even where you live.

Indeed - and my point is that even the ****ty restaurants use higher
quality ingredients than the ****ty restaurants in the states.

you don't know that.

Sandman:
That said, it's not certain that *you* may like the
food, but the ingredient quality will be top notch.

nospam:
not necessarily.

Sandman:
Incorrect.

proof? oh yea, there is none other than you saying so.

some restaurants scrimp on quality ingredients. others don't. learn
to pick the better ones.

It's actually hard to find poor-quality meat and produce that isn't fresh
in Sweden. While a really upscale restaurant use even higher grade meat,
the base standard seems to be far higher than in the states.

so what? all that means is you get ****ty cooking that has high grade
meat.

nospam:
i'm sure it's a wonderful place but to claim that every
restaurant is excellent is completely bull****.

Sandman:
Why can't you read? They may be terrible cooks and it may taste
like ****, but the *ingredients* are of very high quality. That's
my point. I said great *quality* food, not necessairly great
tasting food. Anyone can botch up a perfectly good piece of meat.

if it tastes like ****, who cares if the ingredients are top notch.

It's important to the point. If the meat is good and the chef is bad, then
the problem is with that particular restaurant. If the chef is good, but
the standard quality of meat is bad, then it's a problem with meat
suppliers, and affect more restaurants - i.e. exactly what I observed in
the states.

either way the meal is bad, and you picked ****ty restaurants and are
not in a position to generalize.

Sandman:
Yeah, but who's to blame? Me for not knowing, or for
the fact that there are way too many ****ty restaurants
around?

nospam:
you for not knowing or taking the time to pick better
restaurants.

Sandman:
Yeah, you keep claiming that, but I've yet to see you tell me what
I should have done. Remember, we're a family returning in the
evening from a Disney Park, we're driving through the orland
tourist strip and we're hungry. How do we find a great
restaurant?

i told you what you should and should not have done.

When? What did you say?

go reread what i and others suggested.

all you do is want to bitch.

you succumbed to heavy advertising and put convenience ahead of
quality and then bitched about the lack of quality.

What supposed "advertising" did I succumb to? And yes, as a tourist on
their way home from a theme park, convenience most certainly is a factor.

you said you recognized the taco bell logo and then chose to stop at
it. their advertising worked.

it's your own damned fault.

So the fact that even a local couldn't find a good restaurant in the area
we were in is not a factor at all? It's my fault all those restaurants were
crap?

nonsense. of course a local could find a good restaurant.

and it's your fault you don't know how to choose them.


I went there thinking "sure, I'll try it, seems popular, and hey -
I do like taco's". What I didn't know is that the restaurant
would force-rape my tastebuds.

any idiot would have told you that it wasn't going to be
particularly good.

No idiot did. It's not like me and my son were going from the grocery store
and stopping to ask someone before pulling up to Taco Bell. Who were I
supposed to ask?

did you not interact with *anyone* the entire time you were there?

Sandman:
Only in America could there be food that is worse than Taco Bell.

nope. there's worse food outside america too.

Where? There is no place, in my entire life, where I've been served worse
food than in Taco Bell. It's by *far* the worst food ever produced in a
"kitchen" that I've tasted.

then you're unusually lucky.

Sandman:
McDonald's in Sweden is freaking five-star luxury restaurant to
the Taco Bell we ate at. They are not comparable in any way,
shape or fashion.

bull****. they're all fast food which puts convenience far above
quality. the only difference is that one is a taco and the other is
a burger.

Again, McDonald's in Sweden is a five-star luxury restaurant compared to
the Taco Bell we ate at.

bull****.

nospam:
that's not how to pick good restaurants.

Sandman:
I wasn't trying to pick a good restaurant at the time. Why can't
you read?

then you don't get to complain that you picked a ****ty one.

I complain that it *was* ****ty, how people with actual brains can sit
there and eat that crap. It boggles the mind. I don't complain that I wound
up in Taco Bell whilst looking for a good restaurant. I was well aware of
the fact that a fast food chain would have lower quality, I had *no* idea
that the low quality would be so far off the scale.

then you're naive.

In article , Sandman
wrote:

No, that's the point. That was on our drive home from the park. We
dont' have the time to "search" for a restaurant at that point in
time. We're hungry, let's stop and eat some on the way. Sure, but
where?

picking places you see near major tourist attractions and hotels and
on the major roads between them are generally *not* the better
places.

Of course, that's the freaking point. I've consistently said that finding
good food in America is hard - *especially* in the tourist areas.

it's not that hard.

you need to widen your search. ever heard of a phone book? the
internet?

Did you... did you really just suggest I would - on the way home from the
park - find a.... *phone book*???

sure did.

there's usually a phone book in the hotel room and possibly in the
lobby area too.

And internet - that's Yelp. And it led me astray also.

there's a lot more to the internet than yelp.

And just help me out here - looking at the internet and/or in a *phone
book* - exactly *how* would that lead me to a good restaurant in this area?

research the area for a start, but it's not that hard to tell if a
restaurant is going to be ****ty or not. experienced travelers can
usually tell the ****ty places from the not so ****ty places just by
looking.

it's already been mentioned that one way to tell the better chinese
places is look for chinese people, especially ones who are speaking
chinese and eating with chopsticks.

In article , Sandman
wrote:

I find it quite eas to find good food anywhere I've been. It's
easy to find all kinds - good, bad, mediocre.

Sandman:
Agreed, except for my visits to America, where good food has been
- at least to me - hard to find. Maybe I've been unusually
unlucky, but my experience is shared with others, so I'm not
sure.

you're either unlucky or you don't know how to pick good
restaurants.

How *could* I know? The problem isn't my inability to "pick" good
restaurants, the problem is that there are way too many crap restaurants in
that area.

90% of everything is crap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon's_law



On top of that, way too much food is loaded with sugar, salt and
grease, and my suspicion is that it's there to hide the poor
quality meat underneath.

in the ****ty restaurants, perhaps but not so much in the better
places.

I went to a upscale Chinese restaurant in Salt Lake City once, and the
Chicken Teriyaki was loaded with sugar. Perhaps it's not obvious to someone
used to it?

what was it called and why do you think it was upscale? price?

maybe it was just another one in the long line of ****ty restaurants
you've picked.

In article , Sandman
wrote:

The failing was based on the map provided. I can't find "great"
restaurants when all you provide is a limited area in which to
search. If you wanted "great", you should have expanded the
search area.

Sandman:
But you can't solve the problem then. What use is there for us if
there's a great restaurnt ten miles out of our way in the other
direction?

Then you made a choice, and have no valid grounds to complain. I had
business in Orlando and had no problem finding excellent
restaurants.

My claim has always been that it's really hard to find good food in tourist
areas in America. As a tourist, it's not really that illogical for me to be
in such an area.

only if you restrict yourself to the touristy parts, and it's not just
america.

In article , Sandman
wrote:


What's annoying is that you expanded on your discontent with an
overall condemnation of US food and brought in the excessive use
fat, grease, salt, sugar, bad produce, and I forget what else in US
food based on a few bad decisions on your part.

First of all - I have been very clear from the start that most food-related
problems are found in tourist heavy areas. That's what I said in my
second-to-first post on the subject.

then it should be blatantly obvious that you need to go outside the
tourist-heavy areas, since they're offering convenience, not quality.





The comments about too much salt, sugar and grease is not only in the the
tourist areas, though. They are comments made based on dining on a variety
of places in the states, both tourist areas and not. I just think you - as
a nation or whatever - add too much sugar, salt and grease (i.e. you deep
fry way too much) to your food. Much like I could have said that italians
add too much vinegar to their food, or something like that. It's more a
matter of taste rather than a complain about quality (although I do think
adding these things are sometimes done to hide the poor quality meat).

bull****.

What's even more annoying is that went into that rant about how much
better things are in Sweden and you then held up Sweden as some
paragon of excellent cuisine no matter what restaurant is chosen.

Ah, that's where you're wrong. I said that pick any random restaurant in my
home town (or any swedish town) and you will get great *quality* food. I
realize it could be misunderstood - but the context was the quality of the
meat/fish/produce and such, not that all food tastes really good (most do,
I might add, but that's subjective).

bull****.

You know Sweden and what to expect and what to look for. It's that
home boy arrogance that's annoying.

There's no supposed "arrogance", I am comparing America to Europe, not only
Sweden. I don't know anything about a comparable town in Italy, but I know
from the times I've been there that same scenario applies - pick any
restaurant in a comparable town in Italy (even tourist areas) and you will
pretty much always get high quality food.

bull****.

There were many ways to find better restaurants. You could have
asked the concierge in one of the better Disney hotels for
recommendations.

We weren't at any Disney hotels...

you probably picked ****ty hotels too.

You don't have to be a guest to walk up to the
concierge desk.

But the hotel isn't really wall-to-wall with the park. I would have to
specifically travel to this hotel for the sole reason to ask for what
restaurants are good. While possible, it sure supports the entire "finding
good food is hard" and for a foreigner, it's rather unsual to have to do
something like this.

in other words, you aren't interested in researching the area.

You could have used a good guide book.

Where do you get those?

ever heard of a bookstore? or the internet?

Guide book authors are careful about their recommendations because they
want you to buy their book for your next trip. You could have remained
on Disney property where you said you found acceptable food.

That was in the parks, and required booking from the day before (at least),
not suitable for a spontenous restaurant visit. The park restaurants that
weren't those that required booking ahead did not serve good food at all.

guess why that is.

You could have asked me.

Right, but why? I mean, I have no reason to assume you know of any good
restaurants in this particular area (and now you've shown that you don't,
so you wouldn't have been much help, supposedly), nor that what you and I
consider good food even match.

in other words, you're not interested in researching anything.

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

Irconically, I had a Taco meal in Covent Garden once that was awful.

I've yet to hear of anyone have a good taco meal,

then you have never been to a good mexican restaurant.

like burgers they are what
they are, you can pay a premium price for a burger too.

and some are *very* good.

In article , Sandman
wrote:

Airports don't have guide books for sale? You don't pre-plan a trip?

Not where we're going to eat, no. I'm not much for planning altogether. My
wife likes it a bit more, but she was more concerned in finding places of
interest rather than places to eat.

Guide books are quite useful in pre-planning a trip. On one trip to
the UK, I wanted to view National Hunt (hurdles) racing. (Only flat
racing is done in Florida) The guide book said that hunt racing was
on at Market Rasen during the time of our visit, so we included it in
our itinerary.

Having never bought a guide book in my life,

and you wonder why you end up at ****ty restaurants.

I went to an online book store
here in sweden and searched for one:

http://www.bokus.com/cgi-bin/product...ch_word=guide+
mat+florida

Maybe the Net Geo one is a good choice? I have no frame of reference...

and you wonder why you end up at ****ty restaurants.

That guide book also included restaurant reviews, and it showed that
The Box Tree in Ilkey was (at the time) a Michelin five-star
restaurant.

Just so you know, there exists no Michelin five star restaurant in the
entire world. The highest rating is three stars.

Experienced travelers use sources like guide books to pre-plan.

I don't know, I think printed guide books is a bit last century.

to an extent it is since the information is online now (and much more),
but the point is to research the area and know where to go before
going, not to randomly pick places because you recognized the logo.

Experienced travellers plan their trips ahead of time, using mostly online
sources - like we did. Only, we didn't include any dining plans into those
plans because we had booked an apartment and we already knew that good
restaurants were hard too find in that area.

no, it's because you didn't research the restaurants and ended up at
****ty ones.

Ignorant travelers end up dining in a Golden Corral.

I'll take your word for it.

Ignorant travelers end up endlessly justifying their mistakes saying "It
wasn't my fault".

Again, I'll take your word for it. Don't remember making many "mistakes"
myself with regards to planning.

other than not planning, you mean?