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Dumb question processing 4x5



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 20th 07, 05:27 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Robert Chin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Dumb question processing 4x5

I'm sorry if this has been answered before. This is a legit question so
please bear with me.

My set up is not optimum. I do not have a dedicated darkroom (for now at
least). I've done many many rolls of film over the years. I throw
everyting into a changing bag, load up a reel and no problem.

I'm getting ready to process 4x5 sheet film for the first time. It requires
a bit more space to handle the sheet film than rolls. Since I do not have a
dedicated darkroom, I can't fill the tanks with the necessary chemicals,
leave them on a tabletop, and just lift the film holder from tank to tank in
the dark.

So my question(s) is/are simple: I've heard that because the processing
tanks for 4x5 film take so long to fill, uneven development could result.
Is this a real problem, or is it the opinion of someone really obsessive?
Would I be better off making a light tight space to do this?

Advice welcome from all.

Thanks.





  #2  
Old October 20th 07, 05:27 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Jean-David Beyer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 247
Default Dumb question processing 4x5

Robert Chin wrote:
I'm sorry if this has been answered before. This is a legit question so
please bear with me.

My set up is not optimum. I do not have a dedicated darkroom (for now at
least). I've done many many rolls of film over the years. I throw
everyting into a changing bag, load up a reel and no problem.

I'm getting ready to process 4x5 sheet film for the first time. It
requires a bit more space to handle the sheet film than rolls. Since I
do not have a dedicated darkroom, I can't fill the tanks with the
necessary chemicals, leave them on a tabletop, and just lift the film
holder from tank to tank in the dark.

So my question(s) is/are simple: I've heard that because the processing
tanks for 4x5 film take so long to fill, uneven development could
result. Is this a real problem, or is it the opinion of someone really
obsessive? Would I be better off making a light tight space to do this?

I use the Jobo 2500 series sheet film tank and reels; need loader too.
If you use a Jobo processor (I use CPE-2), it takes relatively little
chemistry, and it loads quite fast.


--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ PGP-Key: 9A2FC99A Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 12:25:01 up 13 days, 20:01, 5 users, load average: 5.40, 5.25, 5.21
  #3  
Old October 20th 07, 05:41 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Peter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default Dumb question processing 4x5

On Oct 20, 6:27 pm, "Robert Chin" wrote:
I'm sorry if this has been answered before. This is a legit question so
please bear with me.

My set up is not optimum. I do not have a dedicated darkroom (for now at
least). I've done many many rolls of film over the years. I throw
everyting into a changing bag, load up a reel and no problem.

I'm getting ready to process 4x5 sheet film for the first time. It requires
a bit more space to handle the sheet film than rolls. Since I do not have a
dedicated darkroom, I can't fill the tanks with the necessary chemicals,
leave them on a tabletop, and just lift the film holder from tank to tank in
the dark.

So my question(s) is/are simple: I've heard that because the processing
tanks for 4x5 film take so long to fill, uneven development could result.
Is this a real problem, or is it the opinion of someone really obsessive?
Would I be better off making a light tight space to do this?

Advice welcome from all.

Thanks.


It is partly true that taking a long time to fill tanks could lead to
a problem.

The usual problem is inconsistent results. This is most easily
overcome by being very consistent in your technique and selecting
developers that take a reasonably long time (e.g., more than 5
minutes). Uneven development is more likely caused by incorrect
agitation.

The Jobo system (also mentioned) does a fine job, but there are
simpler systems (i.e., involving less equipment).

  #4  
Old October 20th 07, 08:16 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Lawrence Akutagawa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 145
Default Dumb question processing 4x5


"Robert Chin" wrote in message
...
I'm sorry if this has been answered before. This is a legit question so
please bear with me.

My set up is not optimum. I do not have a dedicated darkroom (for now at
least). I've done many many rolls of film over the years. I throw
everyting into a changing bag, load up a reel and no problem.

I'm getting ready to process 4x5 sheet film for the first time. It
requires a bit more space to handle the sheet film than rolls. Since I do
not have a dedicated darkroom, I can't fill the tanks with the necessary
chemicals, leave them on a tabletop, and just lift the film holder from
tank to tank in the dark.

So my question(s) is/are simple: I've heard that because the processing
tanks for 4x5 film take so long to fill, uneven development could result.
Is this a real problem, or is it the opinion of someone really obsessive?
Would I be better off making a light tight space to do this?

Advice welcome from all.

Thanks.


Look for a used 8x10 Unicolor Unidrum drum or like printing drum that allows
4x5 prints. EBay is one source. Something like 150 ml of solution each
step needed to process 4 sheets of 4x5. Very even development and table
space required is minimal - about 1' x 2' will be ample...enough to manually
roll the loaded drum from side to side if not using a mechanical roller
device. You can load the drum in a change bag, attach the cover/lid, and do
all the processing in room light.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/

The BTZS tubes are an alternative, though each tube takes only one sheet of
film rather than the up-to-four that the Unidrum does.

http://www.viewcamerastore.com/produ...products_id=36

And as Phil Davis pointed out in his book *Beyond the Zone System*, you can
make your own BTZS type tubes. I've done that and they work well except for
the slight leakage as they are rolled on the counter surface. I never could
get that leakage problem resolved. Maybe if I could have located some large
enough o-rings? I finally tired of that leakage and got myself some BTZS
tubes off EBay for the one or two sheet processing. At some 50ml of
solution each step, they work very well.


  #5  
Old October 20th 07, 10:12 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
David Nebenzahl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,353
Default Dumb question processing 4x5

On 10/20/2007 9:27 AM Robert Chin spake thus:

So my question(s) is/are simple: I've heard that because the processing
tanks for 4x5 film take so long to fill, uneven development could result.
Is this a real problem, or is it the opinion of someone really obsessive?
Would I be better off making a light tight space to do this?


Short answer: forget tray processing. This will kill several birds w/one
stone.

I use a print drum (Beseler Unicolor) to process 4x5 film. Gives
excellent results with minimal amount of chemistry, and does it in
*daylight*. You only need to load the drum in the dark (which you can do
in a dark closet). It gives excellent, consistent, streak-free results.
You can buy the equipment cheap on eBay (that's where I got mine).
  #6  
Old October 20th 07, 10:46 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
David Starr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 69
Default Dumb question processing 4x5

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 12:27:00 -0400, "Robert Chin" wrote:

I'm sorry if this has been answered before. This is a legit question so
please bear with me.

My set up is not optimum. I do not have a dedicated darkroom (for now at
least). I've done many many rolls of film over the years. I throw
everyting into a changing bag, load up a reel and no problem.

I'm getting ready to process 4x5 sheet film for the first time. It requires
a bit more space to handle the sheet film than rolls. Since I do not have a
dedicated darkroom, I can't fill the tanks with the necessary chemicals,
leave them on a tabletop, and just lift the film holder from tank to tank in
the dark.

So my question(s) is/are simple: I've heard that because the processing
tanks for 4x5 film take so long to fill, uneven development could result.
Is this a real problem, or is it the opinion of someone really obsessive?
Would I be better off making a light tight space to do this?

Advice welcome from all.

Thanks.

Can you fill the developer tank in advance, and lower the film holder into it in
total darkness? If so, that takes care of the filling. Then, you can, in the
dark, take the top off the tank, dump the developer and pour in the stop bath.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography

Web Site: www.destarr.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  #7  
Old October 21st 07, 05:13 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
darkroommike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 223
Default Dumb question processing 4x5

Depends on the volume but for trials (at least) get a 8x10
paper drum, one that has dividers to separate 4x5 sheets,
load it in your changing bag (note you may need to invest in
a larger bag) and process on the tabletop in room light. i
use a Unidrum and Uniroller for roll film and use an Omega
Drum (Simmard) on the same base for the little sheet film I
do. I presoak and the Uniroller seems ideal since it
reverses direction automatically. The presoak extends
processing times a bit but the constant agitation seems to
shorten the processing times by about the same amount so I
start with the "large tank" time and temperature and adjust
if not satisfied with the contrast.

Much has been written on the concept, lots of Google hits
and the old Jobo newsletter are a goldmine of rotary
processing info using theirs or any other rotary equipment.

David Starr wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 12:27:00 -0400, "Robert Chin" wrote:

I'm sorry if this has been answered before. This is a legit question so
please bear with me.

My set up is not optimum. I do not have a dedicated darkroom (for now at
least). I've done many many rolls of film over the years. I throw
everyting into a changing bag, load up a reel and no problem.

I'm getting ready to process 4x5 sheet film for the first time. It requires
a bit more space to handle the sheet film than rolls. Since I do not have a
dedicated darkroom, I can't fill the tanks with the necessary chemicals,
leave them on a tabletop, and just lift the film holder from tank to tank in
the dark.

So my question(s) is/are simple: I've heard that because the processing
tanks for 4x5 film take so long to fill, uneven development could result.
Is this a real problem, or is it the opinion of someone really obsessive?
Would I be better off making a light tight space to do this?

Advice welcome from all.

Thanks.

Can you fill the developer tank in advance, and lower the film holder into it in
total darkness? If so, that takes care of the filling. Then, you can, in the
dark, take the top off the tank, dump the developer and pour in the stop bath.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography

Web Site: www.destarr.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  #8  
Old October 21st 07, 10:42 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Richard Knoppow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 751
Default Dumb question processing 4x5


"darkroommike" wrote in message
...
Depends on the volume but for trials (at least) get a 8x10
paper drum, one that has dividers to separate 4x5 sheets,
load it in your changing bag (note you may need to invest
in a larger bag) and process on the tabletop in room
light. i use a Unidrum and Uniroller for roll film and
use an Omega Drum (Simmard) on the same base for the
little sheet film I do. I presoak and the Uniroller seems
ideal since it reverses direction automatically. The
presoak extends processing times a bit but the constant
agitation seems to shorten the processing times by about
the same amount so I start with the "large tank" time and
temperature and adjust if not satisfied with the contrast.

Much has been written on the concept, lots of Google hits
and the old Jobo newsletter are a goldmine of rotary
processing info using theirs or any other rotary
equipment.

David Starr wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 12:27:00 -0400, "Robert Chin"
wrote:

I'm sorry if this has been answered before. This is a
legit question so please bear with me.

My set up is not optimum. I do not have a dedicated
darkroom (for now at least). I've done many many rolls
of film over the years. I throw everyting into a
changing bag, load up a reel and no problem.

I'm getting ready to process 4x5 sheet film for the
first time. It requires a bit more space to handle the
sheet film than rolls. Since I do not have a dedicated
darkroom, I can't fill the tanks with the necessary
chemicals, leave them on a tabletop, and just lift the
film holder from tank to tank in the dark.

So my question(s) is/are simple: I've heard that
because the processing tanks for 4x5 film take so long
to fill, uneven development could result. Is this a real
problem, or is it the opinion of someone really
obsessive? Would I be better off making a light tight
space to do this?

Advice welcome from all.

Thanks.

Can you fill the developer tank in advance, and lower the
film holder into it in
total darkness? If so, that takes care of the filling.
Then, you can, in the
dark, take the top off the tank, dump the developer and
pour in the stop
bath. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - -
Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography

Web Site: www.destarr.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - -


I also use Unicolor and Besler print drums for sheet
film. I have found that I can get "bromide streaks" on
occasion if the drums are rotated using the Unicolor motor
base unless they are taken off several times during
development and agitated sideways. Evidently there is not
enough turbulance in the flow of the developer to move the
reaction products away from the development sites in the
long direction of the drum. I've had this problem
specifically with Rodinal. Its likely it may not happen with
other developers but its worth beign aware of.
The streaks show up as lines of lighter density on
either side of dense highlights on the negative in the
direction of rotation.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA



  #9  
Old October 22nd 07, 02:19 AM posted to rec.photo.darkroom,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Ken Hart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 154
Default Dumb question processing 4x5


"Richard Knoppow" wrote in message
...

snip
I also use Unicolor and Besler print drums for sheet film. I have
found that I can get "bromide streaks" on occasion if the drums are
rotated using the Unicolor motor base unless they are taken off several
times during development and agitated sideways. Evidently there is not
enough turbulance in the flow of the developer to move the reaction
products away from the development sites in the long direction of the
drum. I've had this problem specifically with Rodinal. Its likely it may
not happen with other developers but its worth beign aware of.
The streaks show up as lines of lighter density on either side of
dense highlights on the negative in the direction of rotation.


What if the base were tilted just a couple of degrees? Of course this could
make the streaks slightly diagonal, but as the developer 'runs into' the end
of the tank perhaps it would agitate it sufficiently to prevent the streaks.
I'd try it myself, but I've never experienced the problem. Maybe because I
can't seem to level the motor base! (I use either HC-110 or C-41)


  #10  
Old October 22nd 07, 03:52 AM posted to rec.photo.darkroom,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Nicholas O. Lindan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,227
Default Dumb question processing 4x5

"Ken Hart" wrote

What if the base were tilted just a couple of degrees?


Then the drum 'walks' off the roller - at least Jobo drums and
a Unicolor base. I find I have to shim the base so the drum
stays on top - or at the least to be sure it walks so the cap
end rubs up against the base.

I use the older style 4x5 Jobo reels (? clear spiral reels
holding 6 sheets each) and do not have streaking
problems when using them on a motor base (famous last words,
I know...). Developer is usually Microdol-X and film is
usually TMax 100.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com


 




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