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#11
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A Nikon DSLR story
On 26/04/2013 13:32, Chris Malcolm wrote:
[] That depends on what things you have come to regard as strengths you need. For example I never gave a damn about mirror lock up until the time 30 years ago when I tried to take sharp shots by available light of distant murals in a dim church. The combination of long lens and long exposure demonstrated mirror slap vibration problems very graphically to me. I then decided that lack of mirror lock up was an SLR camera weakness I'd never tolerate again. And once I'd got past mirror slap vibration problems I later progressed to regarding shutter slap vibration problems as a weakness. [] I've just started playing with a new camera, a Nikon D5200, which can produce acceptable images up to ISO 6400, and what you can do with that and even a hand-held f/5.6 zoom lens in low light is amazing. Likely no need for mirror lock-up for my photos today. (No, I don't make large prints.) -- Cheers, David Web: http://www.satsignal.eu |
#12
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A Nikon DSLR story
On 4/27/2013 6:12 PM, RichA wrote:
On Apr 26, 9:32 am, PeterN wrote: On 4/26/2013 8:32 AM, Chris Malcolm wrote: RichA wrote: snip Other than the focus issues of the Nikons and the sensor issues of the Canon's, what else is a weakness of either brand? That depends on what things you have come to regard as strengths you need. For example I never gave a damn about mirror lock up until the time 30 years ago when I tried to take sharp shots by available light of distant murals in a dim church. The combination of long lens and long exposure demonstrated mirror slap vibration problems very graphically to me. I then decided that lack of mirror lock up was an SLR camera weakness I'd never tolerate again. And once I'd got past mirror slap vibration problems I later progressed to regarding shutter slap vibration problems as a weakness. Strengths and weaknesses depend on what kind of photography you do and how. For example I regard not being able to autofocus a mirror lens as a weakness, whereas most photographers don't even know or care what a mirror lens is. When I bought my mirror lens, that was not a weakness. Autofocus didn't exist, except in concept. Actually when I used the term "strengths and weakness" I was referring to the inherent compromises that each photographer feels can be best for his shooting preferences. e.g. While I enjoyed the articulated viewfinder on my old Coolpix, I became quite impatient with its shutter lag. When I got my new camera, I had to decide whether being able to shoot at a higher frame rate was worth the difference in cost. I decided it was not. One of my friends decided it was. If I did a lot of sports shooting, I would have made the same decision. BTW for me one of the great strengths of Nikon, is that I live about ten minutes from the Nikon repair facility. -- PeterN Kind of a back-handed compliment to Nikon. Nope simply one factor in my decision, with most other things being equal. -- PeterN |
#13
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A Nikon DSLR story
On 2013-04-27 15:11:44 -0700, RichA said:
On Apr 26, 9:54*am, David Taylor david- wrote: On 26/04/2013 13:32, Chris Malcolm wrote: [] That depends on what things you have come to regard as strengths you need. For example I never gave a damn about mirror lock up until the time 30 years ago when I tried to take sharp shots by available light of distant murals in a dim church. The combination of long lens and long exposure demonstrated mirror slap vibration problems very graphically to me. I then decided that lack of mirror lock up was an SLR camera weakness I'd never tolerate again. And once I'd got past mirror slap vibration problems I later progressed to regarding shutter slap vibration problems as a weakness. [] I've just started playing with a new camera, a Nikon D5200, which can produce acceptable images up to ISO 6400, and what you can do with that and even a hand-held f/5.6 zoom lens in low light is amazing. *Likely n o need for mirror lock-up for my photos today. *(No, I don't make large prints.) -- Cheers, David Web:http://www.satsignal.eu It's raw images also look less...manhandled than the D7100 images. WTF are you talking about? "Manhandled"!!?? -- Regards, Savageduck |
#14
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A Nikon DSLR story
"PeterN" wrote in message ... BTW for me one of the great strengths of Nikon, is that I live about ten minutes from the Nikon repair facility. Kind of a back-handed compliment to Nikon. Nope simply one factor in my decision, with most other things being equal. I'd also say not needing the repair facility in the first place would be a far bigger strength AFAIC. And the cost, quality, and time taken for repairs would be bigger issues in any case. Trevor. |
#15
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A Nikon DSLR story
"David Taylor" wrote in message ... On 26/04/2013 13:32, Chris Malcolm wrote: That depends on what things you have come to regard as strengths you need. For example I never gave a damn about mirror lock up until the time 30 years ago when I tried to take sharp shots by available light of distant murals in a dim church. The combination of long lens and long exposure demonstrated mirror slap vibration problems very graphically to me. I then decided that lack of mirror lock up was an SLR camera weakness I'd never tolerate again. And once I'd got past mirror slap vibration problems I later progressed to regarding shutter slap vibration problems as a weakness. I've just started playing with a new camera, a Nikon D5200, which can produce acceptable images up to ISO 6400, and what you can do with that and even a hand-held f/5.6 zoom lens in low light is amazing. Likely no need for mirror lock-up for my photos today. (No, I don't make large prints.) Gee, anyone after the last word in sharpness that they worry about shutter vibration on *long* exposures (where the vibration is likely to be a minor part of the complete exposure time and therefore less of an issue) is *NOT* going to be shooting at ISO 6400 instead IMO! Frankly for long exposures on a good tripod, possibly with a sandbag as well, it's often easier to just use a black card and wait for any mirror slap and shutter vibration to settle. It's shorter exposures that may be a problem AFAIC. Trevor. |
#16
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A Nikon DSLR story
On 2013-04-27 23:01:27 -0700, RichA said:
On Apr 27, 8:15*pm, Savageduck wrote: On 2013-04-27 15:11:44 -0700, RichA said: On Apr 26, 9:54*am, David Taylor david- wrote: On 26/04/2013 13:32, Chris Malcolm wrote: [] That depends on what things you have come to regard as strengths y ou need. For example I never gave a damn about mirror lock up until the time 30 years ago when I tried to take sharp shots by available light of distant murals in a dim church. The combination of long lens and long exposure demonstrated mirror slap vibration problems very graphically to me. I then decided that lack of mirror lock up was an SLR camera weakness I'd never tolerate again. And once I'd got past mirror slap vibration problems I later progressed to regarding shutte r slap vibration problems as a weakness. [] I've just started playing with a new camera, a Nikon D5200, which can produce acceptable images up to ISO 6400, and what you can do with tha t and even a hand-held f/5.6 zoom lens in low light is amazing. *Likel y n o need for mirror lock-up for my photos today. *(No, I don't make larg e prints.) -- Cheers, David Web:http://www.satsignal.eu It's raw images also look less...manhandled than the D7100 images. WTF are you talking about? "Manhandled"!!?? -- Regards, Savageduck Manipulated. ....and just what "manipulations" are applied to RAW files, or in this case NEFs in the camera? All you are seeing in whatever RAW processor you are using, or on the camera's LCD is the embedded jpeg, and those might differ camera to camera. Typically the RAW file is going to require some adjustment, and NEFs are notoriously undersaturated & undersharpened. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#17
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A Nikon DSLR story
On 28/04/2013 04:26, Trevor wrote:
[] Gee, anyone after the last word in sharpness that they worry about shutter vibration on *long* exposures (where the vibration is likely to be a minor part of the complete exposure time and therefore less of an issue) is *NOT* going to be shooting at ISO 6400 instead IMO! Frankly for long exposures on a good tripod, possibly with a sandbag as well, it's often easier to just use a black card and wait for any mirror slap and shutter vibration to settle. It's shorter exposures that may be a problem AFAIC. Trevor. Agreed, but what having the higher ISO capability means is that you may no longer need to carry around a tripod and associated sandbags! I'm certainly /not/ after "the last word in sharpness", as the size of images I present doesn't justify that. -- Cheers, David Web: http://www.satsignal.eu |
#18
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A Nikon DSLR story
RichA wrote:
On Apr 26, 8:32*am, Chris Malcolm wrote: RichA wrote: Other than the focus issues of the Nikons and the sensor issues of the Canon's, what else is a weakness of either brand? That depends on what things you have come to regard as strengths you need. For example I never gave a damn about mirror lock up until the time 30 years ago when I tried to take sharp shots by available light of distant murals in a dim church. The combination of long lens and long exposure demonstrated mirror slap vibration problems very graphically to me. I then decided that lack of mirror lock up was an SLR camera weakness I'd never tolerate again. And once I'd got past mirror slap vibration problems I later progressed to regarding shutter slap vibration problems as a weakness. I've seen shutter slap WITH mirror lock-up blur images. Me too. With my 500mm mirror lens at shutter speeds of between around 1/300th down to at least large fractions of a sec. Since the lens has a fixed aperture of f8 that makes it a good light on sunny day lens if I'm after A3 or bigger print critical sharpness. Feather details on stationary birds for example. I'll cheer the day electronic sensor shutters replace mechanical ones. You must still be using one of those old-fashioned DSLRs :-) My Sony A77 has a pellicle mirror that doesn't move, and is switchable between electronic front shutter curtain and mechanical. One of the first tests I did with it was to photograph a few business cards at the far end of the garden with my 500mm mirror lens on my best tripod. I ran through the gamut of nasty shutter speeds with the mechanical front curtain. As usual at between 1/300 & 1/200th the familiar few to several pixels of vertical ghosting and smearing started to appear. Then I switched to electronic front curtain. Absolutely rock steady pin sharp right down to 1/10 sec! At 1/10th sec the gusty light wind was spoiling too many shots to take the tests down further. I did't just cheer! I jumped up and down and shrieked with delight! Now I can stop trying to strengthen my muscles and wallet for that 500mm f4 :-) -- Chris Malcolm |
#19
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A Nikon DSLR story
"David Taylor" wrote in message ... On 28/04/2013 04:26, Trevor wrote: Gee, anyone after the last word in sharpness that they worry about shutter vibration on *long* exposures (where the vibration is likely to be a minor part of the complete exposure time and therefore less of an issue) is *NOT* going to be shooting at ISO 6400 instead IMO! Frankly for long exposures on a good tripod, possibly with a sandbag as well, it's often easier to just use a black card and wait for any mirror slap and shutter vibration to settle. It's shorter exposures that may be a problem AFAIC. Agreed, but what having the higher ISO capability means is that you may no longer need to carry around a tripod and associated sandbags! No argument there when that is deemed acceptable, but not one in which "mirror lockup ability" (as originally stated) is probably a requirement either! :-) Trevor. |
#20
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A Nikon DSLR story
On 4/30/2013 5:16 AM, RichA wrote:
On Apr 28, 4:40 am, Chris Malcolm wrote: RichA wrote: On Apr 26, 8:32 am, Chris Malcolm wrote: RichA wrote: Other than the focus issues of the Nikons and the sensor issues of the Canon's, what else is a weakness of either brand? That depends on what things you have come to regard as strengths you need. For example I never gave a damn about mirror lock up until the time 30 years ago when I tried to take sharp shots by available light of distant murals in a dim church. The combination of long lens and long exposure demonstrated mirror slap vibration problems very graphically to me. I then decided that lack of mirror lock up was an SLR camera weakness I'd never tolerate again. And once I'd got past mirror slap vibration problems I later progressed to regarding shutter slap vibration problems as a weakness. I've seen shutter slap WITH mirror lock-up blur images. Me too. With my 500mm mirror lens at shutter speeds of between around 1/300th down to at least large fractions of a sec. Since the lens has a fixed aperture of f8 that makes it a good light on sunny day lens if I'm after A3 or bigger print critical sharpness. Feather details on stationary birds for example. I'll cheer the day electronic sensor shutters replace mechanical ones. You must still be using one of those old-fashioned DSLRs :-) My Sony A77 has a pellicle mirror that doesn't move, and is switchable between electronic front shutter curtain and mechanical. One of the first tests I did with it was to photograph a few business cards at the far end of the garden with my 500mm mirror lens on my best tripod. I ran through the gamut of nasty shutter speeds with the mechanical front curtain. As usual at between 1/300 & 1/200th the familiar few to several pixels of vertical ghosting and smearing started to appear. Then I switched to electronic front curtain. Absolutely rock steady pin sharp right down to 1/10 sec! At 1/10th sec the gusty light wind was spoiling too many shots to take the tests down further. I did't just cheer! I jumped up and down and shrieked with delight! Now I can stop trying to strengthen my muscles and wallet for that 500mm f4 :-) -- Chris Malcolm I shot through a 1000mm lens with a Nikon D300 using mirror lock up, and a Panasonic m4/3rds camera and the Nikon shots blurred at least 2x as many pixels. Plus, when you consider a lens is automatically going to show as sharper when using a camera with a larger sensor (see the lens tests on Dpreview using APS and FF cameras) the blurrier shots though the D300 illustrate why big DSLR mirrors and big shutters are bad with long lenses or perhaps even macro lenses. I have shown this before. Taken from about 100 yds. The first is uncroped. This image was hand held and one can barely distinguish the little critter in ff. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/_DSC6570.jpg -- PeterN |
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