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Interesting Leica product announcements today ...



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 14th 12, 04:56 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default Interesting Leica product announcements today ...

On 2012-05-14 08:31:58 -0700, David Dyer-Bennet said:

Mxsmanic writes:

Wolfgang Weisselberg writes:

Niche product, needs filters on the lens (instead of being able
to do that in post) which negates the high ISO partially or fully.


What filters are needed on the lens?


Color-rendering filters; like the typical yellow-orange-red used to
darken skies for example. I've stopped carrying those because I always
capture a color image, and if I'm making a B&W print I can get those
effects in post from the color data. But the Monochrome M doesn't
capture the color data, so....


Exactly!

--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #12  
Old May 14th 12, 05:00 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Savageduck[_3_]
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Default Interesting Leica product announcements today ...

On 2012-05-14 08:32:52 -0700, David Dyer-Bennet said:

Mxsmanic writes:

nospam writes:

usual ones for b/w are red or yellow, but also polarizer and others.


Why? I never use filters for black and white, and the results are just fine.


You're weird :-).


No kidding!


Seriously, using filters to control B&W tonal rendering is *extremely*
common among people doing B&W landscape photography, and other kinds for
that matter.


Yup! Always was, and I used them through all of my formative years,
until I started shooting color around 1971.

Ansel Adams was famous for pushing the skies to really
dramatic low levels with a red filter.


Yup! I guess he hadn't consulted with "Mxsmanic" to learn that he was
wasting his time.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #13  
Old May 14th 12, 09:38 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
David Dyer-Bennet
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Posts: 1,814
Default Interesting Leica product announcements today ...

Mxsmanic writes:

David Dyer-Bennet writes:

You're weird :-).


I like to record things as they are.

Seriously, using filters to control B&W tonal rendering is *extremely*
common among people doing B&W landscape photography, and other kinds for
that matter. Ansel Adams was famous for pushing the skies to really
dramatic low levels with a red filter.


They were not shooting things as they are.


News flash: Things are not black and white!
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
  #14  
Old May 15th 12, 12:01 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Chris Malcolm[_2_]
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Default Interesting Leica product announcements today ...

In rec.photo.digital Mxsmanic wrote:
David Dyer-Bennet writes:


You're weird :-).


I like to record things as they are.


Seriously, using filters to control B&W tonal rendering is *extremely*
common among people doing B&W landscape photography, and other kinds for
that matter. Ansel Adams was famous for pushing the skies to really
dramatic low levels with a red filter.


They were not shooting things as they are.


You can't represent coloured things as they are in monochrome.

Suppose you were drawing a landscape with pen and ink wash. You will
draw a lot of black lines round the edges of things. But there are no
such black lines in a photographic image of the scene. That's just one
of many possible conventions for representing what you see. Now you
come to the deep blue sky with massed clouds varying from white to
gray. There is a striking colour contrast between sky and clouds. But
almost none in luminance between the darker clouds and the blue
sky. So how do you represent this in black and white? Lots of artists
would choose to darken the sky to represent the contrast.

Monochrome photographers who use red or orange filters to darken blue
skies are simply following the same representational convention to
represent what they see to be there.

--
Chris Malcolm
  #15  
Old May 15th 12, 05:31 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
David Dyer-Bennet
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Default Interesting Leica product announcements today ...

Mxsmanic writes:

David Dyer-Bennet writes:

News flash: Things are not black and white!


Color is not always relevant, and it can be a distraction.


I absolutely agree. I like B&W a lot, especially for portraits.

But you can't have it both ways, you can't be on about "real", and shoot
B&W, and espect to be taken seriously.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
  #16  
Old May 15th 12, 10:47 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
David Dyer-Bennet
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Default Interesting Leica product announcements today ...

Mxsmanic writes:

David Dyer-Bennet writes:

I absolutely agree. I like B&W a lot, especially for portraits.

But you can't have it both ways, you can't be on about "real", and shoot
B&W, and espect to be taken seriously.


Two different things: Removing information, and changing it. I may remove it,
but I don't change it. Shooting in black and white just removes information;
shooting with a filter changes it.


I do not agree; most especially with a basic color filter, which does
nothing more than blocking some amounts of some colors of light -- a
classic case of "removing information" if there ever was one.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
  #17  
Old May 15th 12, 11:08 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Savageduck[_3_]
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Posts: 16,487
Default Interesting Leica product announcements today ...

On 2012-05-15 14:47:02 -0700, David Dyer-Bennet said:

Mxsmanic writes:

David Dyer-Bennet writes:

I absolutely agree. I like B&W a lot, especially for portraits.

But you can't have it both ways, you can't be on about "real", and shoot
B&W, and espect to be taken seriously.


Two different things: Removing information, and changing it. I may remove it,
but I don't change it. Shooting in black and white just removes information;
shooting with a filter changes it.


I do not agree; most especially with a basic color filter, which does
nothing more than blocking some amounts of some colors of light -- a
classic case of "removing information" if there ever was one.


Use of physical filters has, and always will be subtractive. Stack R,
G, & B filters and check on the result.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #18  
Old May 15th 12, 11:31 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
David Dyer-Bennet
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Posts: 1,814
Default Interesting Leica product announcements today ...

Savageduck writes:

On 2012-05-15 14:47:02 -0700, David Dyer-Bennet said:

Mxsmanic writes:

David Dyer-Bennet writes:

I absolutely agree. I like B&W a lot, especially for portraits.

But you can't have it both ways, you can't be on about "real", and shoot
B&W, and espect to be taken seriously.

Two different things: Removing information, and changing it. I may remove it,
but I don't change it. Shooting in black and white just removes information;
shooting with a filter changes it.


I do not agree; most especially with a basic color filter, which does
nothing more than blocking some amounts of some colors of light -- a
classic case of "removing information" if there ever was one.


Use of physical filters has, and always will be subtractive. Stack R,
G, & B filters and check on the result.


Yes, of course it is, and that doesn't change anything. Removing some
light can make two things that looked "different" originally look "the
same".
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
  #19  
Old May 16th 12, 03:22 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
David Dyer-Bennet
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Posts: 1,814
Default Interesting Leica product announcements today ...

Mxsmanic writes:

David Dyer-Bennet writes:

I do not agree; most especially with a basic color filter, which does
nothing more than blocking some amounts of some colors of light -- a
classic case of "removing information" if there ever was one.


The filter removes information selectively--information that is fundamental to
the image. You use a red filter because you want to make the sky artificially
dark, not because you want to keep its luminance natural.


In fact, the removal of the information is fundamental to that image.

As we have already established, not everybody agrees on what "useful"
uses of color-rendering filters are, so blanket statements about why
people use them are probably untrue. Furthermore, people doing
something other than art photography may make VERY different choices --
forensic and scientific photography for example.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, ; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info
 




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