How to remember: which directories on the card are backed up?

My camera does not has a trash can attached. And I'm a data junky: I
prefer to have as many backups of my data as practically possible.

So when I copy data from a memory card, I do not delete it on card. I
prefer deletion on the card to be postponed as long as possible (in
case I lose the backups). And, since the camera does not has trash
can, I can't let the camera to do this automatically.

When the memory on the card is sparse, I delete some directories (I
try to keep each "shooting occasion" on a separate directory; on
average, it is about 23 shots in a directory[*]). The question
arises: how can I distinguish directories which are already backed up
from those which were not (not trying to rely on my memory alone)?

One idea which comes to mind is to have a special small JPEG file
("backed up" icon) which can be copied to the backed up directories.
If the naming/tagging is appropriate, the camera will show this icon
in the beginning/end of the directory.

Do you have any other idea? Or did anyone already implement the idea
above, so can share details?

Thanks,
Ilya

[*] Hmm, the result is suspiciously close to the length of a typical
roll. Why would it be? (With film, I do/did not care about
boundaries of rolls when shooting...)

"Ilya Zakharevich" wrote in message
...
My camera does not has a trash can attached. And I'm a data junky: I
prefer to have as many backups of my data as practically possible.

So when I copy data from a memory card, I do not delete it on card. I
prefer deletion on the card to be postponed as long as possible (in
case I lose the backups). And, since the camera does not has trash
can, I can't let the camera to do this automatically.

When the memory on the card is sparse, I delete some directories (I
try to keep each "shooting occasion" on a separate directory; on
average, it is about 23 shots in a directory[*]). The question
arises: how can I distinguish directories which are already backed up
from those which were not (not trying to rely on my memory alone)?

One idea which comes to mind is to have a special small JPEG file
("backed up" icon) which can be copied to the backed up directories.
If the naming/tagging is appropriate, the camera will show this icon
in the beginning/end of the directory.

Do you have any other idea? Or did anyone already implement the idea
above, so can share details?

Thanks,
Ilya

Your insistance on not erasing the card does impose some complications.

Personally I would just copy the card to more than one storage location. For
example a copy to the computer HD, and another one to a flash drive (which
can be dumped to a CD or DVD-ram when it becomes full), or copy to a CD/DVD,
or all of the above. Then you can empty the card and still have multiple
backup copys. Thus, if it is still on the card then it has not been backed
up.

But if you still want to keep track of which folders have been backed up,
and you are using a card reader to transfer the folders to your computer,
when you copy the folder to your computer just rename the folder to
something that includes the date of backup. You probably won't need the year
in the date unless you regularly have more than a years worth of images on
the card at once. So if you backup a folder on Aug 10th you would then
rename that folder "0810". And if you backup more than one folder on that
date you could name them 08101 and 08102 etc. Then when you need to choose
between folders to dump, just dump the oldest folder.

As to adding a "backed up" image file to a completed folder, this may not
work if you are counting on then seeing that file on your camera. Some
cameras only recognize an image created in the camera and thus some cameras
may not even acknowledge that the file exists. Of course this may also mean
that some cameras may not "see" a folder that has been renamed and so you
may be out of luck in that one too.

So, by far the easiest way to make sure that you know which files and
folders have been backed up is to just make multiple backups at one time and
then erase the card. Then you will always know which files on the card have
been backed up. If they are there, they haven't.

Randy

==========
Randy Berbaum
Champaign, IL

On Aug 5, 7:50 pm, Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
My camera does not has a trash can attached. And I'm a data junky: I
prefer to have as many backups of my data as practically possible.

So when I copy data from a memory card, I do not delete it on card. I
prefer deletion on the card to be postponed as long as possible (in
case I lose the backups). And, since the camera does not has trash
can, I can't let the camera to do this automatically.

When the memory on the card is sparse, I delete some directories (I
try to keep each "shooting occasion" on a separate directory; on
average, it is about 23 shots in a directory[*]). The question
arises: how can I distinguish directories which are already backed up
from those which were not (not trying to rely on my memory alone)?

One idea which comes to mind is to have a special small JPEG file
("backed up" icon) which can be copied to the backed up directories.
If the naming/tagging is appropriate, the camera will show this icon
in the beginning/end of the directory.

Do you have any other idea? Or did anyone already implement the idea
above, so can share details?

Thanks,
Ilya

[*] Hmm, the result is suspiciously close to the length of a typical
roll. Why would it be? (With film, I do/did not care about
boundaries of rolls when shooting...)

I don't know. Either you (a) don't shoot very many pictures, (b) use
a very small size image or (3) have very large cards. I shoot 8 gig a
day, sometimes. When you fill a few (empty) cards per day, you keep
emptying them.

Why not just use something like carbonite and not worry about it quite
so much.

[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Randy Berbaum
], who wrote in article :
Personally I would just copy the card to more than one storage location. For
example a copy to the computer HD, and another one to a flash drive (which
can be dumped to a CD or DVD-ram when it becomes full), or copy to a CD/DVD,
or all of the above. Then you can empty the card and still have multiple
backup copys. Thus, if it is still on the card then it has not been backed
up.

Assume that this out of the question with the given hardware (not
enough resources to have multiple copies with 2GB/day).

But if you still want to keep track of which folders have been backed up,
and you are using a card reader to transfer the folders to your computer,
when you copy the folder to your computer just rename the folder to
something that includes the date of backup.

Then, I suspect it would not be visible in-camera, so I would not be
able to erase it when needed.

As to adding a "backed up" image file to a completed folder, this may not
work if you are counting on then seeing that file on your camera. Some
cameras only recognize an image created in the camera and thus some cameras
may not even acknowledge that the file exists.

The cameras around me do show things as far as they conform to some
(underspecified) names.

Thanks,
ilya

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 04:50:18 +0000 (UTC), Ilya Zakharevich wrote:

But if you still want to keep track of which folders have been backed up,
and you are using a card reader to transfer the folders to your computer,
when you copy the folder to your computer just rename the folder to
something that includes the date of backup.

Then, I suspect it would not be visible in-camera, so I would not be
able to erase it when needed.

I really don't know if this would work since I've never tried it,
but what if you use two cards and just swap them in the camera after
backing one of them up? You'll never have deleted anything and the
files will remain in the folders they were originally created in.
This assumes that the camera remembers in its internal memory both
the number of the last file saved as well as the folder number, and
increments the folder number if you put in another card that is
missing the "current" folder number. So if you have two cards, and
the one not being used (and which has already been backed up) had as
its last picture saved by your IlyaMatic camera in folder 103, the
filename ILYA0377.JPG. When you finished backing up this card, you
then put your second card in the IlyaMatic, and for the next picture
the camera saves, because it doesn't see the folder 103, it might
save picture ILYA0001.JPG in a new folder 104. When you next decide
to back up the new pictures added to folder 104, you'd repeat the
cycle, backing up this card, and then you'd put the other card in
the camera. The next picture would be saved in folder 105, etc. So
one card would have odd numbered folders and the other would have
even numbered folders.

If this method works in one particular camera, it may not
necessarily work in another brand camera. It wouldn't be foolproof,
since if you forget to swap cards after copying files to the
computer (backing them up), the camera probably wouldn't create a
new folder for the next picture taken. It would if the last picture
taken was ILYA9999.JPG, but that wouldn't happen very often.

I assume that you understand that the ILYA####.JPG filenames as
produced by a real camera might actually look like IMG_####.JPG,
DSCF####.JPG, P#######.JPG or DSC_####.JPG, and the names were
changed to protect either the innocent or the guilty.

You could also change the camera that you use. One of mine shows
pictures that I've moved into new folders. If one of these folders
was named "pix", it would superimpose small text showing "[pix]" on
the LCD display when displaying pictures in that folder.

"Ilya Zakharevich" wrote in message
...
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Randy Berbaum
], who wrote in article
:
Personally I would just copy the card to more than one storage location.
For
example a copy to the computer HD, and another one to a flash drive
(which
can be dumped to a CD or DVD-ram when it becomes full), or copy to a
CD/DVD,
or all of the above. Then you can empty the card and still have multiple
backup copys. Thus, if it is still on the card then it has not been
backed
up.

Assume that this out of the question with the given hardware (not
enough resources to have multiple copies with 2GB/day).

I guess that I am having problems understanding your problem as I have never
had a similar problem. First, the way the original question was posed it
sounded like you were trying to hold 15 or 20 days of shooting with each
days shooting being in a seperate folder on a single card. Now you say you
are shooting 2gig or more a day. this would require a card with a capacity
of 30 to 40 gig! I have not seen any card for a camera that has that kind of
capacity.

Second if you have a computer with a hard drive and any other form of
external storage (CD burner, DVD burner, USB drive, etc) you can easily make
more than one copy of your images. If you don't want to permanently use up
some external storage you could use something like a 5 gig Flash drive (they
are getting fairly cheep now) or even an external USB HD drive which can be
periodically weeded out. And the folders you back up to such a drive can be
either renamed to a particular date name or placed in a dated folder as sub
folder(s). And this would allow the card in the camera to be purely for the
images that have been shot and not yet stored in the computer (and backed up
to the external storage).

I do have one more possible thought. If you are shooting 2g/day and worry
about holding the shot images for several days to make sure that they are
properly saved to your mass storage device (computer HD or stand alone
device), why not just get several cards for your camera. Label them with a
number, and then use them in order. So for example, if you have 7 cards, you
fill card 1 and on to card 2. Continue to 7 and when you fill 7, begin again
with 1. You just have to make sure that you have more cards than you will
shoot between backups. So if you shoot 1 2gig card per day and you regularly
backup your photos at least once each week, then have 10 2g cards. This
gives you a bit of a buffer to make sure you never over run your capacity
between backups.

Personally I would never leave shot images on the camera card for any longer
than I have to. When I am shooting large numbers of images (like on
vacation) I will store the images into multiple devices at the end of each
day, and then clear the cards so I have the full capacity ready to go for
the next day. So I may just not understand your insistance on holding
"already coppied off" images on your camera's memory card.

Randy

==========
Randy Berbaum
Champaign, IL

On Aug 5, 7:50 pm, Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
....
One idea which comes to mind is to have a special small JPEG file
("backed up" icon) which can be copied to the backed up directories.
If the naming/tagging is appropriate, the camera will show this icon
in the beginning/end of the directory.

How about using the camera itself to take low rez image of a "thumbs up"
gesture, after you have backed up the folder? Or keep such an image on your
computer, and copy it to any folder than you have backed up.
--
Mike Russell - www.curvemeister.com

[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
ASAAR
], who wrote in article :
I really don't know if this would work since I've never tried it,
but what if you use two cards and just swap them in the camera after
backing one of them up? You'll never have deleted anything and the
files will remain in the folders they were originally created in.
This assumes that the camera remembers in its internal memory both
the number of the last file saved as well as the folder number, and
increments the folder number if you put in another card that is
missing the "current" folder number. So if you have two cards, and
the one not being used (and which has already been backed up) had as
its last picture saved by your IlyaMatic camera in folder 103, the
filename ILYA0377.JPG. When you finished backing up this card, you
then put your second card in the IlyaMatic, and for the next picture
the camera saves, because it doesn't see the folder 103, it might
save picture ILYA0001.JPG in a new folder 104. When you next decide
to back up the new pictures added to folder 104, you'd repeat the
cycle, backing up this card, and then you'd put the other card in
the camera. The next picture would be saved in folder 105, etc. So
one card would have odd numbered folders and the other would have
even numbered folders.

This is a very ingenious scheme. Unfortunately,

a) I do not want to remove memory cards (pin damage, and A LOT of
possibility to mix up backups; the only time I lost data was when
I forgot that "the other card" is not backed up);

b) The cameras I checked (P&S and dSLR Sony's) have a different
naming convention. It *looks like* there is no memory of the
folder name; when I choose "create a new folder", it scans for
folder names of given format (foo/NNNmsdcf), finds the last one,
and increments NNN.

If course, this is only a conjecture; I tested only by moving
cards between two cameras.

You could also change the camera that you use. One of mine shows
pictures that I've moved into new folders. If one of these folders
was named "pix", it would superimpose small text showing "[pix]" on
the LCD display when displaying pictures in that folder.

I did not try to move images in differently-named folders; but Sony's
show "foreign" images (well, at least icons) in properly-named folders.

Anyway, your scheme is so orthogonal to what I thought, that it
suggests a lot of new ideas. E.g., just create a new folder after
backup, and shoot the inside of your lens cup; then create yet another
new folder. This may be enough indication ;-).

Thanks,
Ilya

[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Randy Berbaum
], who wrote in article :
I guess that I am having problems understanding your problem as I have never
had a similar problem. First, the way the original question was posed it
sounded like you were trying to hold 15 or 20 days of shooting with each
days shooting being in a seperate folder on a single card. Now you say you
are shooting 2gig or more a day. this would require a card with a capacity
of 30 to 40 gig! I have not seen any card for a camera that has that kind of
capacity.

Several folders per day is quite possible (e.g., one per a stitch, or
city, or other "occasion"). And 2G a day was an exaggeration; I had
only a few days resulting in more than 3G of data (two cards swapped),
typically a card survives several days.

Second if you have a computer with a hard drive and any other form of
external storage (CD burner, DVD burner, USB drive, etc) you can easily make
more than one copy of your images.

Having several copies on the same spindle helps, but only a little
bit. I would like to diversify. Two spindles (laptop and USB drive)
is better, but still, they would travel together - a single point of
failure. And I do not carry more than 600GB of storage with me - and
it is already almost filled by the stuff I need for other purposes.

As I said, I *want* to keep stuff on the card as long as possible.

Personally I would never leave shot images on the camera card for any longer
than I have to. When I am shooting large numbers of images (like on
vacation) I will store the images into multiple devices at the end of each
day, and then clear the cards so I have the full capacity ready to go for
the next day. So I may just not understand your insistance on holding
"already coppied off" images on your camera's memory card.

Deleting a directory on a card - or 5 - is just 10sec. For myself,
there is no saving in deleting early.

Thanks,
Ilya

[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Mike Russell
-MOVE], who wrote in article :
One idea which comes to mind is to have a special small JPEG file
("backed up" icon) which can be copied to the backed up directories.
If the naming/tagging is appropriate, the camera will show this icon
in the beginning/end of the directory.

How about using the camera itself to take low rez image of a "thumbs up"
gesture, after you have backed up the folder?

Switching resolution is another possible point of failure (e.g., I can
forget to switch it back).

Or keep such an image on your computer, and copy it to any folder
than you have backed up.

The second idea does not differ from what I wrote, does it? The
problem with it is that a special naming convention is needed to have
it at start or at end of a folder - even when the image count wraps in
a directory...

[I think it would be better to keep the "icon" on card at a special
place, so that one can copy it on any computer.]

Thanks,
Ilya