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D80 histogram vs histogram on computer
I have a D80 which I am quite happy with. I am shooting RAW,
postprocessing with Capture One LE. I have the colour space set to Adobe RGB, and try to fit the histogram to the right without blowing highlights. But when I then open the image in C1LE (or PS CS2, or Graphic Converter), the histograms have loads of "space" to the right side. What is happening? Can anyone give me a clue? As an aside, I came to the D80 from an FA. What I miss most is the shutter release button with the ring around, and then the viewfinder. TIA Martin |
#2
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D80 histogram vs histogram on computer
"Martin Sørensen" wrote in message ... I have a D80 which I am quite happy with. I am shooting RAW, postprocessing with Capture One LE. I have the colour space set to Adobe RGB, and try to fit the histogram to the right without blowing highlights. But when I then open the image in C1LE (or PS CS2, or Graphic Converter), the histograms have loads of "space" to the right side. What is happening? Can anyone give me a clue? As an aside, I came to the D80 from an FA. What I miss most is the shutter release button with the ring around, and then the viewfinder. TIA Martin Your images are still a bit underexposed. It is hard to get that tiny histogram that you see on the camera to match the one which shows up on your very large monitor. Jim |
#3
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D80 histogram vs histogram on computer
On Dec 17, 2:02 am, "Martin Sørensen"
wrote: I have a D80 which I am quite happy with. I am shooting RAW, postprocessing with Capture One LE. I have the colour space set to Adobe RGB, and try to fit the histogram to the right without blowing highlights. But when I then open the image in C1LE (or PS CS2, or Graphic Converter), the histograms have loads of "space" to the right side. What is happening? Can anyone give me a clue? As an aside, I came to the D80 from an FA. What I miss most is the shutter release button with the ring around, and then the viewfinder. TIA Martin Hello, The in-camera histograms are produced from the in-camera jpeg, even if you are shooting raw (to see this, shoot the same thing twice but with different white balance, and notice that the colour histograms change). Note that a jpeg is always produced and is embedded into the raw file (that is what you are looking at when you zoom-in in-camera). The point is that different converters (the camera itself, C1 etc) apply different tone curves; so your histograms will look different. What you can do is always use a particular curve in your camera (the contrast setting; you can even upload one) and work out, by trial and error, and for a given white balance and sharpening setting, what the in-camera histograms look when you actually get clipping in the raw data. But it's too much work. Anyway, it's good to keep in mind that the histograms you see will be very strongly affected by white balance (and contrast settings), even when shooting raw: if you look at actual raw data, it is almost impossible to clip the red channel without first clipping the green one, even under tungsten light; but shoot a red rose in broad daylight and try to get the red channel histogram not to clip in the camera... |
#4
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D80 histogram vs histogram on computer
On Dec 17, 12:29 am, "Jim" wrote:
"Martin Sørensen" wrote in message ... I have a D80 which I am quite happy with. I am shooting RAW, postprocessing with Capture One LE. I have the colour space set to Adobe RGB, and try to fit the histogram to the right without blowing highlights. But when I then open the image in C1LE (or PS CS2, or Graphic Converter), the histograms have loads of "space" to the right side. What is happening? ... TIA Martin Your images are still a bit underexposed. It is hard to get that tiny histogram that you see on the camera to match the one which shows up on your very large monitor. Jim So, completely normal and the best I can do apart from bracketing? To me, it is just striking that often there is (almost) nothing on the right-most quarter of the computer histogram, even if I try to hist if with the camera. Martin |
#5
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D80 histogram vs histogram on computer
"Martin Sørensen" wrote:
I have a D80 which I am quite happy with. I am shooting RAW, postprocessing with Capture One LE. I have the colour space set to Adobe RGB, and try to fit the histogram to the right without blowing highlights. But when I then open the image in C1LE (or PS CS2, or Graphic Converter), the histograms have loads of "space" to the right side. What is happening? Can anyone give me a clue? As an aside, I came to the D80 from an FA. What I miss most is the shutter release button with the ring around, and then the viewfinder. It takes awhile, but you'll get used to the shutter button. However, for exposure control, after you've checked the histogram, try moving your "photo information" display one setting to the right, so that instead of a histogram you have a "blink on overexposure" display, and use that to fine tune exposures. I typically use manual exposure, but if you like the camera to do it you can adjust the Exposure Compensation to get it right on target. The trick is to crank in extra exposure until it blinks, and then back off just one step (defaults are 1/3 of an f/stop, but can be set to 1/2). It requires "wasting" two or three shots, but developing digital film is cheap... :-) You can then learn to accept blown highlights in certain areas, and adjust on others. For example, if there is a reflection, or an electric lamp in the scene, let it blink, and adjust on the brightest area that should not be blown. The single biggest advantage of the blink on overexposure display is that you can see where it is overexposed, which a histogram does not tell you. Basically, if you leave it at 1/3rd f/stop steps you can nail exposure to within 1/3rd f/stop virtually every time. That's close. -- Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) |
#6
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D80 histogram vs histogram on computer
acl wrote:
On Dec 17, 2:02 am, "Martin Sørensen" wrote: I have a D80 which I am quite happy with. I am shooting RAW, postprocessing with Capture One LE. I have the colour space set to Adobe RGB, and try to fit the histogram to the right without blowing highlights. But when I then open the image in C1LE (or PS CS2, or Graphic Converter), the histograms have loads of "space" to the right side. What is happening? Can anyone give me a clue? As an aside, I came to the D80 from an FA. What I miss most is the shutter release button with the ring around, and then the viewfinder. Hello, The in-camera histograms are produced from the in-camera jpeg, even if you are shooting raw (to see this, shoot the same thing twice but with different white balance, and notice that the colour histograms change). Note that a jpeg is always produced and is embedded into the raw file (that is what you are looking at when you zoom-in in-camera). The point is that different converters (the camera itself, C1 etc) apply different tone curves; so your histograms will look different. What you can do is always use a particular curve in your camera (the contrast setting; you can even upload one) and work out, by trial and error, and for a given white balance and sharpening setting, what the in-camera histograms look when you actually get clipping in the raw data. But it's too much work. Anyway, it's good to keep in mind that the histograms you see will be very strongly affected by white balance (and contrast settings), even when shooting raw: if you look at actual raw data, it is almost impossible to clip the red channel without first clipping the green one, even under tungsten light; but shoot a red rose in broad daylight and try to get the red channel histogram not to clip in the camera... I agree with acl, what you can do is turn down the contrast, saturation and sharpening as far as possible in the menus. This will give a jpeg histogram that is closer to the raw file but still not raw. I also agree about the blinking overexpose mode, I switch between those often. And do look at the 3-color histogram, in particular skies can blow out the blue channel making an irretrievably cyan sky when the composite histogram looks fine in some applications. BTW the viewfinder may not look as good as your old film camera but it's one of the better viewfinders available for cropped digital and is excellent considering the price of a D80. |
#7
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D80 histogram vs histogram on computer
No, it not normal. You need to increase the exposure by either switching to
manual mode or by using exposure compensation. If the right quarter of the histogram is blank, then you are underexposing by about 1 stop. Jim "Martin Sørensen" wrote in message ... On Dec 17, 12:29 am, "Jim" wrote: "Martin Sørensen" wrote in message ... I have a D80 which I am quite happy with. I am shooting RAW, postprocessing with Capture One LE. I have the colour space set to Adobe RGB, and try to fit the histogram to the right without blowing highlights. But when I then open the image in C1LE (or PS CS2, or Graphic Converter), the histograms have loads of "space" to the right side. What is happening? .... TIA Martin Your images are still a bit underexposed. It is hard to get that tiny histogram that you see on the camera to match the one which shows up on your very large monitor. Jim So, completely normal and the best I can do apart from bracketing? To me, it is just striking that often there is (almost) nothing on the right-most quarter of the computer histogram, even if I try to hist if with the camera. Martin |
#8
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D80 histogram vs histogram on computer
To me, it is just striking that often there is (almost) nothing on the right-most quarter of the computer histogram, even if I try to hist if with the camera. This isn't unusual. The histogram you see on the camera LCD is based on the embedded JPEG within the RAW file. It is therefore in 8-bit color so it's not capable of showing you all the headroom you're getting with RAW images. Having one full quarter of the histogram flatline sounds a bit excessive, but depending on variations in meter calibration and the types of scenes you're shooting it's certainly possible when combined with the JPEG/RAW discrepancy. It's usually OK to clip the right-hand edge of the in-camera histogram when shooting RAW, but you have yo learn from experience how much you can get away with. Some people I know who shoot RAW exclusively change the default JPEG settings on their cameras, turning contrast and saturation way down, to make the JPEG histogram more accurately represent the RAW file. These settings don't change what's in the RAW file, and they'll make your JPEG files look flat & washed out (which is why only RAW-only shooters use this technique), but you'll get a histogram that looks closer to what's in the RAW file. -- Mark Roberts Photography & Multimedia www.robertstech.com 412-687-2835 |
#9
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D80 histogram vs histogram on computer
Back to the OP's question. I'd be interested in knowing why the upper edge
of the D80's histogram should be so different from the one shown in the editing software, and the responses so far are not particularly satisfying. The histogram, for the D80, and AFAIK all SLR's, is after the fact, and does not involve SLR sensor technology. Nor should the camera's JPEG settings have much of an effect on the histogram:. changes in gamma affect mostly the midtones, and not the min or max values. Sharpness, and the output color profile, likewise have little or no effect on overall brightness. My own personal guess is that it's the raw converter's "exposure" setting that is the culprit in this case, but it's only a guess. Though I can understand the desire for precision, from a practical standpoint, 25% of the histogram is only a half a stop error. Luckily in this case it is on the safe side, since what you really want to avoid is clipping. -- Mike Russell - www.curvemeister.com |
#10
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D80 histogram vs histogram on computer
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:42:15 -0800 (PST), "Martin Sørensen"
wrote: On Dec 17, 12:29 am, "Jim" wrote: "Martin Sørensen" wrote in message ... I have a D80 which I am quite happy with. I am shooting RAW, postprocessing with Capture One LE. I have the colour space set to Adobe RGB, and try to fit the histogram to the right without blowing highlights. But when I then open the image in C1LE (or PS CS2, or Graphic Converter), the histograms have loads of "space" to the right side. What is happening? ... TIA Martin Your images are still a bit underexposed. It is hard to get that tiny histogram that you see on the camera to match the one which shows up on your very large monitor. Jim So, completely normal and the best I can do apart from bracketing? To me, it is just striking that often there is (almost) nothing on the right-most quarter of the computer histogram, even if I try to hist if with the camera. Martin Completely normal for any dSLR. You have to understand, that the light-meter in any SLR design system is only a rough rough approximation from what you see, and what you see is already an approximation of the full-frame that will be recorded. Plus, if you change lenses from anything than other the default "normal" lens of 55mm e.q. for which the light-metering system was optimized, any other lens' light path will not hit those sensors correctly. Forget about it even trying to cope with a long zoom range for any accuracy. Just learn to know the differences between particular lenses, their focal lengths, and the resulting true histogram that will be provided. Then mentally adjust before each shot for that "fudge factor" that you'll have to remember for each lens used and each focal length range on any zoom lens. You're just finding out something about all dSLR's that most dSLR owners turn a blind-eye too (like so many things they do). This problem of any auto-exposure or metering system in any SLR light-path camera has existed since the SLR design was first implemented. Nothing new. Perfectly normal. Perfectly useless for anyone requiring more precise metering of their subjects. Oh, and don't keep your eye too far away from that viewfinder lens. Any light that enters through the lens where your eye is at on that "much desired" optical viewfinder will also upset the auto-exposure readings. This is just a few of things they didn't want to tell you when they were going on and on about how dSLR's are so superior to all other camera designs. SURPRISE! |
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