If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
This guy mattered more than Jobs the Toymaker
otter wrote:
On Oct 15, 7:57 pm, Rich wrote: The underpinning of our computer world rides on this fellow's and his colleague's efforts, not Apple adult toys. http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/14/tech/i...hie-obit-bell- labs/index.html As much as I respect Dennis Ritchie and invention of the C programming language, it was really just one thing, and not without warts. Steve Jobs and Woz brought us the first useful personal computer, the Apple II. And then they stole some ideas and gave us the Mac, which I don't think the Woz had much (if anything) to do with the Mac, though apparently the Apple II was almost entirely his creation. The Mac, as I recall, was originally intended to be just an economy version of the $10,000 Lisa -- which was a flop. led to Windows, and the windowing guis in the unix/linux world. Then I think the first version of Windows appeared at about the same time as the Mac, though that Windows was unworkable for practical purposes and pretty much remained so for a few years, until 3.0. But at least Windows had color from the beginning, unlike the early Macs with their funky little blue monochrome screens. add on the "toys" at Apple, and a few other things to get a true idea of the scope of Steve Jobs' accomplishments. No reason to put down either man, or even compare them. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
This guy mattered more than Jobs the Toymaker
On 2011-10-17 12:35:39 -0700, RichA said:
On Oct 16, 4:48*am, Eric Stevens wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 19:57:16 -0500, Rich wrote: The underpinning of our computer world rides on this fellow's and his colleague's efforts, not Apple adult toys. http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/14/tech/i...tchie-obit-bel... I've unwrapped the URL. Apart from that, I agree with you. There is also Farmwald and Horowitz who with their co-workers are responsible for inventions without which no modern computers would exist. Regards, Eric Stevens And Theodore Maiman, who invented the first laser, without which none of our current non-memory data recording mediums would be possible. ....and that brings on all the concept developer/inventor/claimed discoverer arguments regarding Bell vs Gray vs Edison vs Reis for the telephone; Marconi vs Edison vs Tesla vs Popov for radio; Baird vs Farnsworth for television. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
This guy mattered more than Jobs the Toymaker
On 2011-10-17 12:56:39 -0700, "Neil Harrington" said:
Savageduck wrote: On 2011-10-17 02:30:04 -0700, Whisky-dave said: I;'d heard that the reason WWII came about was because Hitlers mother was going to have an abortion but her doctor talked her out of it, so is that doctor responsible for WWII . It would be just as reasonable to say the only reason Hitler came to power, and subsequently WWII came about, was because the Central powers lost WWI, and Germany was gutted by the Western Allies in 1919 with the Treaty of Versailles. Quite. Also, you could say the Central Powers lost the war unconditionally because the U.S. entered it in 1917, with great quantities of fresh troops, munitions and food. The European forces by then were pretty much exhausted on both sides, and probably would have had to settle the whole thing eventually with something much less drastic and punitive than the Versailles treaty. True the US entrance prevented the stalemate. However the French were bent on revenge and always had the intent to cripple Germany totally. Versailles was selected by the French as a return to the site of their humiliation at the end of the Franco-Prussian War. Also, if Chamberlain, humiliated after Munich, had not out of pique made those foolish guarantees to Poland, the Poles probably would have been reasonable about negotiating with Hitler over the matter of returning Danzig to Germany -- which most British, even the bellicose Churchill, thought should have been done anyway. Danzig was ethnically 95% German and wanted to be returned to Germany just as much as Hitler wanted it returned. There might have been a war anyway, but it wouldn't have been another world war. Hitler certainly never wanted war with Britain or any other part of the west. Again this leads back to Versailles and the effective dismantling of the Prussian Empire, Danzig being in the pre-Versailles East-Prussia. Then there was Czechoslovakia, being carved from the Austro-Hungarian Empire, with one big chunk coming out of Germany, isolating another group of ethnic germans. All providing fuel for Mr. H and WWII. Strangely enough, the Balkan states came out of Versailles as independent nations and enjoyed relative peace through the 1920's & 30's. Stalin put an end to that with Tito's help. When that ruthless dictator died so did Yugoslavia creating the return to the ethnic and religious wars of an earlier time. Those states now exist prety much as they had been draw at Versailles. Also, if a certain butterfly had not fluttered by in quite that way at just the right moment in Indonesia, of course everything might have been different. ;-) ....and there it is. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
This guy mattered more than Jobs the Toymaker
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:04:38 -0700, Savageduck
wrote: On 2011-10-17 12:35:39 -0700, RichA said: On Oct 16, 4:48*am, Eric Stevens wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 19:57:16 -0500, Rich wrote: The underpinning of our computer world rides on this fellow's and his colleague's efforts, not Apple adult toys. http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/14/tech/i...tchie-obit-bel... I've unwrapped the URL. Apart from that, I agree with you. There is also Farmwald and Horowitz who with their co-workers are responsible for inventions without which no modern computers would exist. Regards, Eric Stevens And Theodore Maiman, who invented the first laser, without which none of our current non-memory data recording mediums would be possible. ...and that brings on all the concept developer/inventor/claimed discoverer arguments regarding Bell vs Gray vs Edison vs Reis for the telephone; Marconi vs Edison vs Tesla vs Popov for radio; You should add Rutherford to that list. At one stage he was leading the pack. Baird vs Farnsworth for television. I previously mentioned Farmwald and Horowitz, whose invention lead to the formation of Rambus. I don't know of one computing device (including cameras) which doesn't make use of Rambus inventions. Without Rambus we likely would be stuck in the era of EDO memory. Regards, Eric Stevens |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
This guy mattered more than Jobs the Toymaker
On 2011-10-17 13:12:45 -0700, "Neil Harrington" said:
otter wrote: On Oct 15, 7:57 pm, Rich wrote: The underpinning of our computer world rides on this fellow's and his colleague's efforts, not Apple adult toys. http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/14/tech/i...hie-obit-bell- labs/index.html As much as I respect Dennis Ritchie and invention of the C programming language, it was really just one thing, and not without warts. Steve Jobs and Woz brought us the first useful personal computer, the Apple II. And then they stole some ideas and gave us the Mac, which I don't think the Woz had much (if anything) to do with the Mac, though apparently the Apple II was almost entirely his creation. Correct. However Woz returned to Apple's development team in 1983 after recovering from his aircrash injuries and completing his degree at UC Berkeley, and had a hand in a fair part of "de-Lisa-ing" the Lisa. The Mac, as I recall, was originally intended to be just an economy version of the $10,000 Lisa -- which was a flop. Correct again. It became obvious the Lisa was not going to succeed against the DOS machines and Jobs had divorced himself from refining it further, but still needed to make an impact within the corporate hierarchy. So he had the Lisa concept simplified and invented "Steve Jobs" the promotional guru (his one true invention) leading to the "1984" ad. Remember the target of that ad was IBM, not MS. led to Windows, and the windowing guis in the unix/linux world. Then I think the first version of Windows appeared at about the same time as the Mac, though that Windows was unworkable for practical purposes and pretty much remained so for a few years, until 3.0. Both Jobs/Wozniak and the weasel Gates lifted the GUI concept from Xerox PARC. But at least Windows had color from the beginning, unlike the early Macs with their funky little blue monochrome screens. add on the "toys" at Apple, and a few other things to get a true idea of the scope of Steve Jobs' accomplishments. No reason to put down either man, or even compare them. Agreed. Also, many folks forget that Edison's practice after his initial successes, was to throw concepts at his Menlo Park team of researchers for them to come up with the products and "inventions" for which he held patents. That practice certainly makes the comparison between Edison and Jobs valid. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
This guy mattered more than Jobs
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
This guy mattered more than Jobs
On 10/17/11 12:42 PM, in article , "GMAN" wrote: In article , Mike Benveniste wrote: On 10/16/2011 10:11 PM, otter wrote: As much as I respect Dennis Ritchie and invention of the C programming language, it was really just one thing, and not without warts. He is also justifiably called a co-creator of Unix, and those two technologies set the stage for the vast majority of computing today. Under Mr. Jobs leadership, on the other hand, Apple produced and brought to market _four_ product that created permanent cultural change. None of those products were "wart free" either. What? the MP3 player? already out long before the iPod , Pad computing? I had a HP laptop/PAD PC years before the ipad came out etc... etc... The only cultural change i see is the millions of duchebag teens and adults who feel the constant need to update their stupid facebook pages with stuff like "eating lunch now" , "Taking **** now" etc..... Get a life, bitch. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
This guy mattered more than Jobs the Toymaker
On 10/17/11 12:38 PM, in article , "GMAN" wrote: In article , otter wrote: On Oct 15, 7:57=A0pm, Rich wrote: The underpinning of our computer world rides on this fellow's and his colleague's efforts, not Apple adult toys. http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/14/tech/i...hie-obit-bell- labs/index.html As much as I respect Dennis Ritchie and invention of the C programming language, it was really just one thing, and not without warts. Steve Jobs and Woz brought us the first useful personal computer, the Apple II. And then they stole some ideas and gave us the Mac, which led to Windows, and the windowing guis in the unix/linux world. Then add on the "toys" at Apple, and a few other things to get a true idea of the scope of Steve Jobs' accomplishments. No reason to put down either man, or even compare them. You are seriously disrepecting what Atari and Commodre brought to the table. When the mac came out , it was black and white, and a year later the Atari ST and commodore amiga blew out of the water what apple and the current PC world at the time had to offer. Add a few apple roms to a discovery cart on your ST and you were running mac apps fater that a real mac at the time Commodore should have been more appropriately named for what it was: "Commode Door" |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
This guy mattered more than Jobs the Toymaker
Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-10-17 12:56:39 -0700, "Neil Harrington" said: Savageduck wrote: On 2011-10-17 02:30:04 -0700, Whisky-dave said: I;'d heard that the reason WWII came about was because Hitlers mother was going to have an abortion but her doctor talked her out of it, so is that doctor responsible for WWII . It would be just as reasonable to say the only reason Hitler came to power, and subsequently WWII came about, was because the Central powers lost WWI, and Germany was gutted by the Western Allies in 1919 with the Treaty of Versailles. Quite. Also, you could say the Central Powers lost the war unconditionally because the U.S. entered it in 1917, with great quantities of fresh troops, munitions and food. The European forces by then were pretty much exhausted on both sides, and probably would have had to settle the whole thing eventually with something much less drastic and punitive than the Versailles treaty. True the US entrance prevented the stalemate. However the French were bent on revenge and always had the intent to cripple Germany totally. Versailles was selected by the French as a return to the site of their humiliation at the end of the Franco-Prussian War. Yes. Actually the French had considerable reason to be more ****ed off than anyone else about the whole 1914-18 war, since (in the European theater at least) the war was fought almost entirely on French soil, with enormous destruction to the country -- while no comparable destruction occurred in Germany. That this was the direct result of alliances the French themselves had chosen to make could not have made them feel any better about it. Also, if Chamberlain, humiliated after Munich, had not out of pique made those foolish guarantees to Poland, the Poles probably would have been reasonable about negotiating with Hitler over the matter of returning Danzig to Germany -- which most British, even the bellicose Churchill, thought should have been done anyway. Danzig was ethnically 95% German and wanted to be returned to Germany just as much as Hitler wanted it returned. There might have been a war anyway, but it wouldn't have been another world war. Hitler certainly never wanted war with Britain or any other part of the west. Again this leads back to Versailles and the effective dismantling of the Prussian Empire, Danzig being in the pre-Versailles East-Prussia. Then there was Czechoslovakia, being carved from the Austro-Hungarian Empire, with one big chunk coming out of Germany, isolating another group of ethnic germans. All providing fuel for Mr. H and WWII. Absolutely. Strangely enough, the Balkan states came out of Versailles as independent nations and enjoyed relative peace through the 1920's & 30's. Stalin put an end to that with Tito's help. When that ruthless dictator died so did Yugoslavia creating the return to the ethnic and religious wars of an earlier time. Those states now exist prety much as they had been draw at Versailles. I'll take your word for it. I get pretty confused about the Balkan countries over that and preceding periods. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
This guy mattered more than Jobs the Toymaker
Savageduck wrote:
On 2011-10-17 13:12:45 -0700, "Neil Harrington" said: otter wrote: On Oct 15, 7:57 pm, Rich wrote: The underpinning of our computer world rides on this fellow's and his colleague's efforts, not Apple adult toys. http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/14/tech/i...hie-obit-bell- labs/index.html As much as I respect Dennis Ritchie and invention of the C programming language, it was really just one thing, and not without warts. Steve Jobs and Woz brought us the first useful personal computer, the Apple II. And then they stole some ideas and gave us the Mac, which I don't think the Woz had much (if anything) to do with the Mac, though apparently the Apple II was almost entirely his creation. Correct. However Woz returned to Apple's development team in 1983 after recovering from his aircrash injuries and completing his degree at UC Berkeley, and had a hand in a fair part of "de-Lisa-ing" the Lisa. Ah. That I didn't know. The Mac, as I recall, was originally intended to be just an economy version of the $10,000 Lisa -- which was a flop. Correct again. It became obvious the Lisa was not going to succeed against the DOS machines and Jobs had divorced himself from refining it further, but still needed to make an impact within the corporate hierarchy. So he had the Lisa concept simplified and invented "Steve Jobs" the promotional guru (his one true invention) Heh. I always thought Jobs was overrated (or over-self-promoted). His main contributions to the Apple II, as I recall, were fanlessness (because he thought the sound of a fan would make people think it too machine-like, which might make them afraid of it) and the funky 52-key keyboard with no provision for caps. Both these ideas reflected Jobs's concern that above all, the computer must be non-threatening to ordinary people. And both only served to limit the computer in some way. Most other Apple II owners I knew promptly bought a Kensington System Saver fan to put on it, since they didn't trust convection cooling to do the job. The limited keyboard was more of a problem, obviously. There was some sort of hardware modification that would enable capitalizing, obviously a necessity when word processing software appeared for it. But these were just dumb mistakes on Jobs's part. My own Apple was the IIe which had a much more complete keyboard. I've read that when Woz and the other guy (whose name I've long forgotten) were rushing to get the Apple II prototype ready for a demonstration, Wozniak asked Jobs to design the (then essential) tape recorder port. Jobs simply replied, "That's analog. I don't do analog,." leading to the "1984" ad. Remember the target of that ad was IBM, not MS. led to Windows, and the windowing guis in the unix/linux world. Then I think the first version of Windows appeared at about the same time as the Mac, though that Windows was unworkable for practical purposes and pretty much remained so for a few years, until 3.0. Both Jobs/Wozniak and the weasel Gates lifted the GUI concept from Xerox PARC. And the mouse too, isn't that right? Or was that from somewhere else? But at least Windows had color from the beginning, unlike the early Macs with their funky little blue monochrome screens. add on the "toys" at Apple, and a few other things to get a true idea of the scope of Steve Jobs' accomplishments. No reason to put down either man, or even compare them. Agreed. Also, many folks forget that Edison's practice after his initial successes, was to throw concepts at his Menlo Park team of researchers for them to come up with the products and "inventions" for which he held patents. That practice certainly makes the comparison between Edison and Jobs valid. Interesting. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
This guy mattered more than Jobs the Toymaker | Rich[_6_] | Digital Photography | 156 | December 22nd 11 04:18 PM |
jobs | [email protected] | Digital Photography | 1 | April 5th 08 12:31 PM |
Online Jobs.Earn $500 or more per month.Part time Data Entry Jobs.No | nario | Digital Photography | 1 | March 14th 08 01:54 AM |
New Jobs Available For 2008 | n3hl7oyf | 35mm Photo Equipment | 1 | December 18th 07 03:05 PM |
GET YOUR DESIRE JOBS | sudi | Digital Photography | 4 | June 19th 07 10:14 AM |