Deconstruct a GIF file

On 6/9/2017 2:08 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:


and have limited performance and range.

their performance blows away anything ice cars can do, outside of
*very* high performance vehicles (read: not cheap, more expensive than
an electric vehicle).

as for range, everything has a limited range. for the vast majority of
drivers, it's a non-issue. very few people drive anywhere close to 200
miles per day on a regular basis.

Simple answer: They can't with any current electric model.

yes they can.

They generally die when their
batteries do.

the batteries can be replaced.

meanwhile, if an ice car's engine dies, it's scrap metal.

Their whole of life cost is higher.

nope. it's lower.

Please provide substantiation.

tesla.com

Certainly that is an unbiased site. Give us a precise quote.


Which electric car can be driven, today, around the Gaspe Peninsular.
Show us the charging stops.

just how often do you drive there?

Whenever I want to. For once in your life, just admit that you are
overstating, and then backing down by saying that most people don't.



meanwhile, there's a ****load of chargers all over manhattan, long
island and nearby.



--
PeterN

On 6/9/2017 3:48 PM, nospam wrote:
In article .com,
Savageduck wrote:

and have limited performance and range.

their performance blows away anything ice cars can do, outside of
*very* high performance vehicles (read: not cheap, more expensive than
an electric vehicle).

as for range, everything has a limited range. for the vast majority of
drivers, it's a non-issue. very few people drive anywhere close to 200
miles per day on a regular basis.

When I was working my daily drive to and from work was 150-175 miles, 5
days/week.

that's definitely an outlier for a daily commute, but still within the
range of a tesla, even if it's *each* way.


Do you own at least one?
If the car is that great, why not.
--
PeterN

On 6/9/2017 1:02 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


They generally die when their
batteries do.

the batteries can be replaced.

They die when their batteries do simply because of the cost of
replacing the batteries. Rather than replace the batteries it's
cheaper to throw away an otherwise functional car.

nope.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles...5/economics-ow
ning-tesla-car.asp
Tesla¹s Model S 85D has virtually no maintenance because its electric
engine has far fewer moving parts than a regular internal combustion
engine. The battery is guaranteed for eight years with unlimited
miles and, after that, is replaceable for $12,000.

But what eight year old car is worth spending $12,000 on?

a tesla.

other than the battery, almost nothing wears out.

Do the math. Possibly if you are doing a straight drive.



and again, it doesn't stop working at 8 years, it just doesn't go as
far (reduced capacity), which for most people, won't be an issue.



--
PeterN

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

Which electric car can be driven, today, around the Gaspe Peninsular.
Show us the charging stops.

just how often do you drive there?

meanwhile, there's a ****load of chargers all over manhattan, long
island and nearby.

In a couple weeks, I'll be driving my F-150 to Pennsylvania, 660 miles.
I suspect that I will pass dozens (maybe scores) of "charging stations"
(gas stations). Of course, I'll only need to "charge" the forty gallon
"battery" once, and it will take about ten minutes or so.
Let's see your Tesla do that.

how often do you drive 660 miles in a day? not often.

True, I don't do it every day.

exactly the point.

But I could- at least my truck could.

so what?

nobody said it couldn't.

no vehicle is ideal for every situation.

True. "No vehicle" is ideal for "every situation"- including your
beloved Tesla. But considering the current highway infrastructu 70
MPH speed limits, frequent gas stations but few charging stations- the
internal combustion powered vehicle is ideal for more situations than
the battery powered car.

more situations doesn't matter. covering the most common ones is.

most people don't drive all that much. over 90% of drivers commute
under 35 miles each way to/from work.

https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/r.../publications/
omnistats/volume_03_issue_04/pdf/entire.pdf

for the occasional longer road trip, use a vehicle designed for trips.

since an electric costs less to operate, you could even use the savings
towards renting something nice.

meanwhile, let's see your f-150 do 0-60 in under 3 seconds, drive
itself in most situations and without needing periodic tune-ups, oil
changes, etc.

The site www.zeroto60times.com/body-style/pickup-truck/ didn't list my
truck (2009 Supercab 4x4), but most similar F-series trucks were six to
nine seconds. I don't have any trouble merging from the on-ramp into
that gap between two big rigs on I-70.

6-9 seconds is slow.

Any machine with moving parts needs periodic maintenance.

machines with fewer moving parts needs less periodic maintenance.

I pay about
$45 every 3K miles for "The Works", Ford's oil change/inspection deal.
Other than that, I've replaced the cabin air filter and the tires.

that's $45/3k you wouldn't need to spend, plus the cost for filters,
plus the cost for brake pads and other ongoing maintenance.

tires are going to wear no matter what type of vehicle is used.

and it won't be long until all sorts of things need replacement, such
belts, hoses, muffler, coolant flush, various sensors, etc.

Self-driving is not yet ready for prime time.

more than you think it is.

Let's see how your Tesla does at (a) driving through a foot of snow, or
(b) carrying six people, or (c) carrying a half-ton of cargo, or (d)
mudding. No, I don't do any of those things every day.

then it doesn't matter.

nevertheless, snow isn't an issue, the tesla model x seats 7 and it's
rated to carry approximately 1000 pounds of cargo.

But I can. Except
for the snow part- that only happens in the winter.

no snow in summer? global warming is happening faster than expected.

In article , PeterN
wrote:


Please provide substantiation.

tesla.com

Certainly that is an unbiased site. Give us a precise quote.

http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-monthly-charge-cost-calculator/

for someone in new york (i.e., you) driving 1000 mi/mo, it would cost
about $52/mo.

assuming 30 mpg and $3/gal, that'd be around $100/mo in gas, plus a few
oil changes and other periodic checks during the year.

Which electric car can be driven, today, around the Gaspe Peninsular.
Show us the charging stops.

just how often do you drive there?

Whenever I want to. For once in your life, just admit that you are
overstating, and then backing down by saying that most people don't.

i'm not overstating anything.

no vehicle is perfect for every situation.

if you go there a lot, get a different car. most likely you'd fly there
so you'd be renting anyway.

plus, savageduck said there's a lot of chargers there so it isn't
actually a problem.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

and have limited performance and range.

their performance blows away anything ice cars can do, outside of
*very* high performance vehicles (read: not cheap, more expensive than
an electric vehicle).

as for range, everything has a limited range. for the vast majority of
drivers, it's a non-issue. very few people drive anywhere close to 200
miles per day on a regular basis.

When I was working my daily drive to and from work was 150-175 miles, 5
days/week.

that's definitely an outlier for a daily commute, but still within the
range of a tesla, even if it's *each* way.

Do you own at least one?
If the car is that great, why not.

what i own or don't own is not relevant.

stick to the topic.

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

--HW.1EEB5FED00562C0E7000000802CF
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

On Jun 9, 2017, Ken Hart wrote
(in article ):

On 06/09/2017 03:22 PM, nospam wrote:
In , Ken Hart
wrote:

Which electric car can be driven, today, around the Gaspe Peninsular.
Show us the charging stops.

just how often do you drive there?

meanwhile, there's a ****load of chargers all over manhattan, long
island and nearby.

In a couple weeks, I'll be driving my F-150 to Pennsylvania, 660 miles.
I suspect that I will pass dozens (maybe scores) of "charging stations"
(gas stations). Of course, I'll only need to "charge" the forty gallon
"battery" once, and it will take about ten minutes or so.
Let's see your Tesla do that.

how often do you drive 660 miles in a day? not often.

True, I don't do it every day. But I could- at least my truck could.

no vehicle is ideal for every situation.

True. "No vehicle" is ideal for "every situation"- including your
beloved Tesla. But considering the current highway infrastructu 70
MPH speed limits, frequent gas stations but few charging stations- the
internal combustion powered vehicle is ideal for more situations than
the battery powered car.

Personally I currently drive a Mercedes E350, but a Tesla S, or X would meet
my needs nicely, and drop my running costs considerably.


meanwhile, let's see your f-150 do 0-60 in under 3 seconds, drive
itself in most situations and without needing periodic tune-ups, oil
changes, etc.

The site www.zeroto60times.com/body-style/pickup-truck/ didn't list my
truck (2009 Supercab 4x4), but most similar F-series trucks were six to
nine seconds. I don't have any trouble merging from the on-ramp into
that gap between two big rigs on I-70.

Any machine with moving parts needs periodic maintenance. I pay about
$45 every 3K miles for "The Works", Ford's oil change/inspection deal.
Other than that, I've replaced the cabin air filter and the tires.

Self-driving is not yet ready for prime time.

Explain that to Tesla.https://vimeo.com/192179726

Let's see how your Tesla does at (a) driving through a foot of snow,

Tesla S & X “D� models are all wheel drive, and can deal with problem
conditions quite well.

or (b) carrying six people,

I guess they didn’t tell you about the Tesla Model X with 7 passenger
seating:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/59fej40ginb0iz8/screenshot_64.png

or (c) carrying a half-ton of cargo,

Those same Tesla Model X can be fitted with a 5,000 Lb. tow package.
They also can be configured for 88 cu ft of cargo space.

or (d) mudding.

If that mud isn’t too extreme the all wheel drive should pull the Tesla
through.

No, I don't do any of those things every day.

Who does willingly?

But I can.

Whoopee!!

Except for the snow part- that only happens in the winter.

Out here in California some of the Sierra ski slopes are going to be open
beyond July 4, and they got more snow this week.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 14:08:49 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


They generally die when their
batteries do.

the batteries can be replaced.

They die when their batteries do simply because of the cost of
replacing the batteries. Rather than replace the batteries it's
cheaper to throw away an otherwise functional car.

nope.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles...5/economics-ow
ning-tesla-car.asp
Tesla¹s Model S 85D has virtually no maintenance because its electric
engine has far fewer moving parts than a regular internal combustion
engine. The battery is guaranteed for eight years with unlimited
miles and, after that, is replaceable for $12,000.

But what eight year old car is worth spending $12,000 on?

a tesla.

other than the battery, almost nothing wears out.

and again, it doesn't stop working at 8 years, it just doesn't go as
far (reduced capacity), which for most people, won't be an issue.

I have had an eight year old car. Do you really want a list of what
wears out?

not a tesla, you didn't.

and an 8 year old car isn't all that old anyway, nor does it cease to
work. that's just when the warranty expires.

I wil stat with the door hinges, then the door seals, then the
suspension bushings, all kinds of vital components in the brake
system, the seals in the power steering, suspension parts ... I could
go on. Is an electric car immune to these kinds of problems?

nothing is immune to anything, but the ongoing maintenance for an
electric vehicle is minimal. no need to change oil or other fluids, for
instance. brakes last *much* longer because of regenerative braking.

The Tesla has gearboxes. Their oil will need periodical changing.
Brakefluid deteriorates. That will need changing.

and what did you do that the door hinges needed replacing??

They don't need changing but they do wear and doors start to rattle.
Doors help keep the car body from twisting which is why the door
hinges and lock can have a hard time.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 14:08:50 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

As for more efficient, that's certainly not true when you consider
the entire fuel cycle.

even more so if you consider the entire fuel cycle.

it's a lot more efficient to generate power at a power plant than have
millions of gas powered engines running.

But then there are the losses in between to be considered.

that's included.

most of the energy contained in gas is lost to heat, not motion.

What do you think happens to the heat required to generate energy?

i'm talking about the heat *from* the combustion, which does nothing
but make your engine hot. that's wasted.

And
don't try and rely on wind or solar.

why not? i know someone who has solar panels and charges his tesla from
it (along with using it for other purposes).

Is that his sole source of power?

don't know, don't care. for normal use, it probably is.

Then he only drives at night. He spends all day charging his
batteries.

in other words, he can drive for free.

From where did he steal his solar panels?

your house.

He obviously stole them from somewhere. Otherwise you would have to
include their cost in the car's running cost. Same if he has batteries
etc.

i know another person with solar and he gets a negative electric bill
(no pun intended). they're paying *him* for power.

What is the subsidy? (and don't say there isn't one).

i have no idea nor do i care. i do know that he's selling power back to
the grid rather than the usual other way around.

There almost certainly is a subsidy there somewhere and that is a
concealed benefit.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 6/9/2017 4:19 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Jun 9, 2017, Savageduck wrote
(in iganews.com):

On Jun 9, 2017, PeterN wrote
(in article ):

Which electric car can be driven, today, around the Gaspe Peninsular.

A Tesla should get you around the Gaspé Peninsula and back home.

Single charge range for a Model X is 295 miles.

The Model S has several variants:

The 75 = 265 mi

The 75D = 275 mi

The 100D = 351 mi

The P100D = 337 mi

The, ...er, budget priced Model 3 has a range of 215 mi.

The other beauty of the Tesla is you can have the car deal with some of the
driving tasks.

https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

Show us the charging stops.

Finding Tesla SuperCharge stations shouldn't be too problematic.

To start, the dash display contains the tools to plan your route including
Super Charger locations and distances between SC stations.

You can also do your planning at home or with the iPhone, iPad, Android app.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wog2ws0c1h6yx7m/screenshot_61.png

https://www.dropbox.com/s/081g3yibpx6onmt/screenshot_62.png

BTW: On the Gaspé Peninsula there are also 7 destination Tesla charging
stations, two for the public, one resturaunt, and five for patrons of hotels
in the area: Hotel Gouverneur, Rimouski; Quality Inn & Suites, Matane; Four
Points Sheraton, Edmundston; Motel Au Fleuve D’Argent, Rivere-du-Loup;
Motel Piloteux, Rivere-du-Loup; Restaurant Pastali, Pointe-a-la-Croix; and
Municipalite de Notre-Dame-du-Portage.


Last time I looked, I was one of the public. Last weekend we were at
Longwood Gardens. There were two charging stations there. There was a
third electric car driver, hoping someone would come out soon. It's a
great car, but......

--
PeterN