color of spring

On Fri, 20 May 2016 12:58:28 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , PeterN
wrote:

which
is a very weak reed to lean on.

it's weaker than the main brakes when the main brakes work and stronger
than the main brakes when they have failed.

Duh!

Anything is better than nothing but for many years main braking
systems have been duplex and cannot fail entirely unless the pedal
snaps off or similar.

nonsense.

Believe what you will. I just hope your lack of flexibility in thought
doesn't hurt any innocent people.

it's not me with the lack of flexibility in thought.

brakes can and *do* fail, and more than just the pedal breaking off,
something which i've never actually heard of happening.

It happened to Stirling Moss driving the 'birdcage' Maserati. See
http://snaplap.s3-us-west-2.amazonaw...rling-Moss.jpg
or http://tinyurl.com/zmcb2q8
Moss was trying to slow for a corner early on in the Mille Miglia when
the brake pedal collapsed under his foot. Denis Jenkinson who was a
passenger at the time recorded that Moss twitched the steering wheel
and lost speed by sliding the car sideways through the corner.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

which
is a very weak reed to lean on.

it's weaker than the main brakes when the main brakes work and stronger
than the main brakes when they have failed.

Duh!

Anything is better than nothing but for many years main braking
systems have been duplex and cannot fail entirely unless the pedal
snaps off or similar.

nonsense.

Believe what you will. I just hope your lack of flexibility in thought
doesn't hurt any innocent people.

it's not me with the lack of flexibility in thought.

brakes can and *do* fail, and more than just the pedal breaking off,
something which i've never actually heard of happening.

It happened to Stirling Moss driving the 'birdcage' Maserati. See

http://snaplap.s3-us-west-2.amazonaw...6/02/05102957/
Maserati-Tipo-61-Stirling-Moss.jpg
or http://tinyurl.com/zmcb2q8
Moss was trying to slow for a corner early on in the Mille Miglia when
the brake pedal collapsed under his foot. Denis Jenkinson who was a
passenger at the time recorded that Moss twitched the steering wheel
and lost speed by sliding the car sideways through the corner.

ok, once, and that was over 50 years ago.

now count how many times a brake line rusted out, a master cylinder
failed, calipers broke, brakes were wet, pads worn out, or the vehicle
just lost all traction because the wheels locked up (pre-abs).

in fact, abs brakes were designed *because* too many people slammed on
their brakes and locked their wheels, which is only slightly better
than not having any brakes (for slowing down, not so much for
steering).

On Fri, 20 May 2016 22:05:40 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

which
is a very weak reed to lean on.

it's weaker than the main brakes when the main brakes work and stronger
than the main brakes when they have failed.

Duh!

Anything is better than nothing but for many years main braking
systems have been duplex and cannot fail entirely unless the pedal
snaps off or similar.

nonsense.

Believe what you will. I just hope your lack of flexibility in thought
doesn't hurt any innocent people.

it's not me with the lack of flexibility in thought.

brakes can and *do* fail, and more than just the pedal breaking off,
something which i've never actually heard of happening.

It happened to Stirling Moss driving the 'birdcage' Maserati. See

http://snaplap.s3-us-west-2.amazonaw...6/02/05102957/
Maserati-Tipo-61-Stirling-Moss.jpg
or http://tinyurl.com/zmcb2q8
Moss was trying to slow for a corner early on in the Mille Miglia when
the brake pedal collapsed under his foot. Denis Jenkinson who was a
passenger at the time recorded that Moss twitched the steering wheel
and lost speed by sliding the car sideways through the corner.

ok, once, and that was over 50 years ago.

Now you have heard of it happening.

now count how many times a brake line rusted out, a master cylinder
failed, calipers broke, brakes were wet, pads worn out, or the vehicle
just lost all traction because the wheels locked up (pre-abs).

in fact, abs brakes were designed *because* too many people slammed on
their brakes and locked their wheels, which is only slightly better
than not having any brakes (for slowing down, not so much for
steering).

Stopping distance is slightly increased with ABS but, as you say, it
allows you to steer while braking heavily.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Anything is better than nothing but for many years main braking
systems have been duplex and cannot fail entirely unless the pedal
snaps off or similar.

nonsense.

Believe what you will. I just hope your lack of flexibility in thought
doesn't hurt any innocent people.

it's not me with the lack of flexibility in thought.

brakes can and *do* fail, and more than just the pedal breaking off,
something which i've never actually heard of happening.

It happened to Stirling Moss driving the 'birdcage' Maserati. See

http://snaplap.s3-us-west-2.amazonaw...2016/02/051029
57/
Maserati-Tipo-61-Stirling-Moss.jpg
or http://tinyurl.com/zmcb2q8
Moss was trying to slow for a corner early on in the Mille Miglia when
the brake pedal collapsed under his foot. Denis Jenkinson who was a
passenger at the time recorded that Moss twitched the steering wheel
and lost speed by sliding the car sideways through the corner.

ok, once, and that was over 50 years ago.

Now you have heard of it happening.

now count how many times a brake line rusted out, a master cylinder
failed, calipers broke, brakes were wet, pads worn out, or the vehicle
just lost all traction because the wheels locked up (pre-abs).

in fact, abs brakes were designed *because* too many people slammed on
their brakes and locked their wheels, which is only slightly better
than not having any brakes (for slowing down, not so much for
steering).

Stopping distance is slightly increased with ABS

on some surfaces, such as gravel, the stopping distance can be much
longer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system#Effectiveness
A June 1999 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)
study found that ABS increased stopping distances on loose gravel by
an average of 27.2 percent.[21]

but, as you say, it
allows you to steer while braking heavily.

which is a big advantage.

unfortunately, people continue to get themselves into situations where
they have to slam on the brakes.

On Sat, 21 May 2016 15:27:33 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

Stopping distance is slightly increased with ABS but, as you say, it
allows you to steer while braking heavily.

Only under certain conditions. In general, a typical human driver
won't come close to the abilities of ABS. Only slightly different
topic - for laughs, watch some motorcycle ABS tests. Most of the pro
test riders are too scared to even try to match the ABS distance. Some
of them are too scared to even trust the ABS.

On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:39:54 -0700, Bill W
wrote:

On Sat, 21 May 2016 15:27:33 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

Stopping distance is slightly increased with ABS but, as you say, it
allows you to steer while braking heavily.

Only under certain conditions. In general, a typical human driver
won't come close to the abilities of ABS. Only slightly different
topic - for laughs, watch some motorcycle ABS tests. Most of the pro
test riders are too scared to even try to match the ABS distance. Some
of them are too scared to even trust the ABS.

Years ago I watched a friend savagely applying the brakes on his new
BMW motorcycle while riding in circles on wet grass. It was an eye
opener.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


Years ago I watched a friend savagely applying the brakes on his new
BMW motorcycle while riding in circles on wet grass. It was an eye
opener.

if you really want an eye opener, try stoppies (be sure to turn the
volume down):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaHFfCewtmg&t=41

On Sat, 21 May 2016 16:41:13 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:39:54 -0700, Bill W
wrote:

On Sat, 21 May 2016 15:27:33 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

Stopping distance is slightly increased with ABS but, as you say, it
allows you to steer while braking heavily.

Only under certain conditions. In general, a typical human driver
won't come close to the abilities of ABS. Only slightly different
topic - for laughs, watch some motorcycle ABS tests. Most of the pro
test riders are too scared to even try to match the ABS distance. Some
of them are too scared to even trust the ABS.

Years ago I watched a friend savagely applying the brakes on his new
BMW motorcycle while riding in circles on wet grass. It was an eye
opener.

Yeah, that stuff really works these days. The early stuff, not so
great. On wet ice, with one of the 1st versions, I slid like it had no
brakes at all. Washboard surfaces were also a huge problem, but
they've made improvements with that.