New Leica DEMANDS discipline!!

On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 14:04:01 -0700 (PDT), RichA
wrote:

On Friday, 29 April 2016 19:43:20 UTC-4, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:54:03 -0700 (PDT), RichA
wrote:

I wonder if psychologically, this might be better than one with a screen, or worse?

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1245580...no-rear-screen

Leica might have something.

It used to be that the photograher had to know an awful lot about the
scene, lighting and exposure factors which determine whether or not
the photograph is going to be any good. Over the years the control of
more and more of this has been subsumed into the computerised working
of the camera. Now the stage has been reached where the photographer
has to know not only the scene, lighting and exposure factors but the
maze which he has to follow through the myriad of menu items over
which he now has control. This has not made life any more simple for
the photographer. Nor has it necessarily made for better images.

The new Leica M-D has put the photographer back to the position where
he has full responsibility and control and has to rely on the camera
for very little other than that it does it's job.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

Years ago, in the film days, they COULD have used LCD previews (like Polaroid test shots) because there was a variability to the result, most people would lose a few shots per role due to problems unless they are very careful. Today, you can shoot three-shot bursts of everything and (probably) one would be a good one. The Leica demands knowing something about how a camera functions. But then I know people who haven't a clue as to how to (for example)to compensate for back-lighting so modern DSLR or Leica, they are at the camera's mercy.

What makes this even dumber is the fact that you can pop the card out,
and plug it into your phone or tablet, and look at the photos right
away anyhow. And I bet some people will do exactly that, when they
could have just bought a real camera... The Leica philosophy with this
stupid camera is stated as, it "brings back the anticipation of
discovering the results later in the process, as when shooting with
film." Later in the process, like the 10 seconds it takes to move the
memory card to another device.

In article , Bill W
wrote:


What makes this even dumber is the fact that you can pop the card out,
and plug it into your phone or tablet, and look at the photos right
away anyhow. And I bet some people will do exactly that, when they
could have just bought a real camera... The Leica philosophy with this
stupid camera is stated as, it "brings back the anticipation of
discovering the results later in the process, as when shooting with
film." Later in the process, like the 10 seconds it takes to move the
memory card to another device.

put gaffer tape over the lcd on the back of the camera. instant leica.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 23:37:04 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Bill W
wrote:


What makes this even dumber is the fact that you can pop the card out,
and plug it into your phone or tablet, and look at the photos right
away anyhow. And I bet some people will do exactly that, when they
could have just bought a real camera... The Leica philosophy with this
stupid camera is stated as, it "brings back the anticipation of
discovering the results later in the process, as when shooting with
film." Later in the process, like the 10 seconds it takes to move the
memory card to another device.

put gaffer tape over the lcd on the back of the camera. instant leica.

Yeah, and if you really need "the anticipation", and there's no gaffer
tape handy, there's always self control - just don't look.

In article , Bill W wrote:

RichA:
Years ago, in the film days, they COULD have used LCD previews
(like Polaroid test shots) because there was a variability to the
result, most people would lose a few shots per role due to
problems unless they are very careful. Today, you can shoot
three-shot bursts of everything and (probably) one would be a good
one. The Leica demands knowing something about how a camera
functions. But then I know people who haven't a clue as to how to
(for example)to compensate for back-lighting so modern DSLR or
Leica, they are at the camera's mercy.

What makes this even dumber is the fact that you can pop the card
out, and plug it into your phone or tablet, and look at the photos
right away anyhow. And I bet some people will do exactly that, when
they could have just bought a real camera... The Leica philosophy
with this stupid camera is stated as, it "brings back the
anticipation of discovering the results later in the process, as
when shooting with film." Later in the process, like the 10 seconds
it takes to move the memory card to another device.

It's not like such a process could replace previewing on the LCD and certainly
not chimping. That is by definition "later in the process" instead of "right
after you've taken it". Or are you claiming that Leica owners will take a pic,
pop the memory card out, put in their iPhone, look at the result, pop it back
in to the camera, take a shot, pop out the card... etc etc...?

--
Sandman

On 1 May 2016 09:11:42 GMT, Sandman wrote:

In article , Bill W wrote:

RichA:
Years ago, in the film days, they COULD have used LCD previews
(like Polaroid test shots) because there was a variability to the
result, most people would lose a few shots per role due to
problems unless they are very careful. Today, you can shoot
three-shot bursts of everything and (probably) one would be a good
one. The Leica demands knowing something about how a camera
functions. But then I know people who haven't a clue as to how to
(for example)to compensate for back-lighting so modern DSLR or
Leica, they are at the camera's mercy.

What makes this even dumber is the fact that you can pop the card
out, and plug it into your phone or tablet, and look at the photos
right away anyhow. And I bet some people will do exactly that, when
they could have just bought a real camera... The Leica philosophy
with this stupid camera is stated as, it "brings back the
anticipation of discovering the results later in the process, as
when shooting with film." Later in the process, like the 10 seconds
it takes to move the memory card to another device.

It's not like such a process could replace previewing on the LCD and certainly
not chimping. That is by definition "later in the process" instead of "right
after you've taken it". Or are you claiming that Leica owners will take a pic,
pop the memory card out, put in their iPhone, look at the result, pop it back
in to the camera, take a shot, pop out the card... etc etc...?

Of course not, but the option will be available when they just have to
see if that photo came out right. Anticipation is great, until it's
not.

Worse yet, what about those times when a very unusual shot presents
itself, and you have to grab the camera, turn it on, and shoot
quickly. Wouldn't anyone like to know if they got the shot? Because if
not, and they could see that something went wrong, they could correct
the problem and keep shooting. But if you don't know, and you really,
really want that shot, what do you do? Just keep firing away until the
card is full, and hope at least one of them is good?

On Sun, 01 May 2016 12:35:02 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

On Sun, 01 May 2016 08:53:10 -0700, Bill W
wrote:

On 1 May 2016 09:11:42 GMT, Sandman wrote:

In article , Bill W wrote:

RichA:
Years ago, in the film days, they COULD have used LCD previews
(like Polaroid test shots) because there was a variability to the
result, most people would lose a few shots per role due to
problems unless they are very careful. Today, you can shoot
three-shot bursts of everything and (probably) one would be a good
one. The Leica demands knowing something about how a camera
functions. But then I know people who haven't a clue as to how to
(for example)to compensate for back-lighting so modern DSLR or
Leica, they are at the camera's mercy.

What makes this even dumber is the fact that you can pop the card
out, and plug it into your phone or tablet, and look at the photos
right away anyhow. And I bet some people will do exactly that, when
they could have just bought a real camera... The Leica philosophy
with this stupid camera is stated as, it "brings back the
anticipation of discovering the results later in the process, as
when shooting with film." Later in the process, like the 10 seconds
it takes to move the memory card to another device.

It's not like such a process could replace previewing on the LCD and certainly
not chimping. That is by definition "later in the process" instead of "right
after you've taken it". Or are you claiming that Leica owners will take a pic,
pop the memory card out, put in their iPhone, look at the result, pop it back
in to the camera, take a shot, pop out the card... etc etc...?

Of course not, but the option will be available when they just have to
see if that photo came out right. Anticipation is great, until it's
not.

Worse yet, what about those times when a very unusual shot presents
itself, and you have to grab the camera, turn it on, and shoot
quickly. Wouldn't anyone like to know if they got the shot? Because if
not, and they could see that something went wrong, they could correct
the problem and keep shooting. But if you don't know, and you really,
really want that shot, what do you do? Just keep firing away until the
card is full, and hope at least one of them is good?

Anyone who would buy a $6,000 camera body-only because of the design
of the body can afford to hire and send a professional photographer to
get the shot.

Good point.

On Sun, 01 May 2016 12:35:02 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

On Sun, 01 May 2016 08:53:10 -0700, Bill W
wrote:

On 1 May 2016 09:11:42 GMT, Sandman wrote:

In article , Bill W wrote:

RichA:
Years ago, in the film days, they COULD have used LCD previews
(like Polaroid test shots) because there was a variability to the
result, most people would lose a few shots per role due to
problems unless they are very careful. Today, you can shoot
three-shot bursts of everything and (probably) one would be a good
one. The Leica demands knowing something about how a camera
functions. But then I know people who haven't a clue as to how to
(for example)to compensate for back-lighting so modern DSLR or
Leica, they are at the camera's mercy.

What makes this even dumber is the fact that you can pop the card
out, and plug it into your phone or tablet, and look at the photos
right away anyhow. And I bet some people will do exactly that, when
they could have just bought a real camera... The Leica philosophy
with this stupid camera is stated as, it "brings back the
anticipation of discovering the results later in the process, as
when shooting with film." Later in the process, like the 10 seconds
it takes to move the memory card to another device.

It's not like such a process could replace previewing on the LCD and certainly
not chimping. That is by definition "later in the process" instead of "right
after you've taken it". Or are you claiming that Leica owners will take a pic,
pop the memory card out, put in their iPhone, look at the result, pop it back
in to the camera, take a shot, pop out the card... etc etc...?

Of course not, but the option will be available when they just have to
see if that photo came out right. Anticipation is great, until it's
not.

Worse yet, what about those times when a very unusual shot presents
itself, and you have to grab the camera, turn it on, and shoot
quickly. Wouldn't anyone like to know if they got the shot? Because if
not, and they could see that something went wrong, they could correct
the problem and keep shooting. But if you don't know, and you really,
really want that shot, what do you do? Just keep firing away until the
card is full, and hope at least one of them is good?

Anyone who would buy a $6,000 camera body-only because of the design
of the body can afford to hire and send a professional photographer to
get the shot.

Like
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2...n-progress.jpg

"Err would you mind doing that again next Tuesday?"
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Sun, 01 May 2016 12:35:02 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

Anyone who would buy a $6,000 camera body-only because of the design
of the body can afford to hire and send a professional photographer to
get the shot.

I suspect that using a camera like this has elements in common with
shooting elephants with a single shot gun. It will appeal to a certain
type of photographer who enjoys the thrill of the hunt but almost
certainly not to one who just wants the picture at the end.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Bill W wrote:

Sandman:
It's not like such a process could replace previewing on the LCD
and certainly not chimping. That is by definition "later in the
process" instead of "right after you've taken it". Or are you
claiming that Leica owners will take a pic, pop the memory card
out, put in their iPhone, look at the result, pop it back in to
the camera, take a shot, pop out the card... etc etc...?

Of course not, but the option will be available when they just have
to see if that photo came out right. Anticipation is great, until
it's not.

Yea, so liken it to the process of using polaroid backs back in the day, where
you'd take a polaroid to check your measurements.

So take a shot with your Leica, pop the card into your phone/tablet to check
your settings, and then shoot away, "anticipating" the end result etc etc.

Worse yet, what about those times when a very unusual shot presents
itself, and you have to grab the camera, turn it on, and shoot
quickly.

Yeah, how did people manage that before digital? Must have been impossible

Wouldn't anyone like to know if they got the shot?

Sure, but we're not talking about people that preview/chimp all the time.
They're obviously not the target audience here. While I'm sure there were tons
of people back in the analog days that would wish they could see instantly if
the shot turned out ok, but the Leica is supposedly aimed towards the same
people that back in analog weren't in that crowd, the people that knew their
equipment well enough to know whether or not the shot would turn out fine.

And with RAW and iso-less shooting these days, this is less of a problem then
back then.

Because if not, and they could see that something went wrong, they
could correct the problem and keep shooting. But if you don't know,
and you really, really want that shot, what do you do? Just keep
firing away until the card is full, and hope at least one of them is
good?

No, you know how shutter speed, aperture and ISO works together to create a
good shot. It sounds like you're saying that no one could take a good shot back
in analog times without filling up a roll of film.


--
Sandman

In article , Eric Stevens wrote:

Tony Cooper:
Anyone who would buy a $6,000 camera body-only because of the
design of the body can afford to hire and send a professional
photographer to get the shot.

I suspect that using a camera like this has elements in common with
shooting elephants with a single shot gun. It will appeal to a
certain type of photographer who enjoys the thrill of the hunt but
almost certainly not to one who just wants the picture at the end.

It's just a step in the ongoing retro trend. Whether it's a logical or natural
step is for anyone to decide, but if I could pop in a memory card in my Nikon
FE2, I would. Remove all the complexity of modern digital cameras and just take
pictures.

It's a bit of yearning back to simpler times. And to be frank, I think this
Leica would be the same had it had a LCD with just a play button. I.e. you take
a shot and you can press play on it to see it. While in play mode, the shutter
dial moves left and right. It's the only thing you can do with the LCD. No
menues, not settings, no controls. Just review.

--
Sandman