New Leica DEMANDS discipline!!

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:54:03 -0700 (PDT), RichA
wrote:

I wonder if psychologically, this might be better than one with a screen, or worse?

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1245580...no-rear-screen

Leica might have something.

It used to be that the photograher had to know an awful lot about the
scene, lighting and exposure factors which determine whether or not
the photograph is going to be any good. Over the years the control of
more and more of this has been subsumed into the computerised working
of the camera. Now the stage has been reached where the photographer
has to know not only the scene, lighting and exposure factors but the
maze which he has to follow through the myriad of menu items over
which he now has control. This has not made life any more simple for
the photographer. Nor has it necessarily made for better images.

The new Leica M-D has put the photographer back to the position where
he has full responsibility and control and has to rely on the camera
for very little other than that it does it's job.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Leica might have something.

they don't.

It used to be that the photograher had to know an awful lot about the
scene, lighting and exposure factors which determine whether or not
the photograph is going to be any good. Over the years the control of
more and more of this has been subsumed into the computerised working
of the camera.

as it should be. computers can do lots of things better than humans can.

Now the stage has been reached where the photographer
has to know not only the scene, lighting and exposure factors but the
maze which he has to follow through the myriad of menu items over
which he now has control.

that's a flaw of the ui/ux, not the technology.

some old mechanical cameras are poorly designed and hard to use too.

This has not made life any more simple for
the photographer. Nor has it necessarily made for better images.

not only has it made life more simple, but the images are much better
to boot.

The new Leica M-D has put the photographer back to the position where
he has full responsibility and control and has to rely on the camera
for very little other than that it does it's job.

photographers have always had that responsibility.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:47:57 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Leica might have something.

they don't.

It used to be that the photograher had to know an awful lot about the
scene, lighting and exposure factors which determine whether or not
the photograph is going to be any good. Over the years the control of
more and more of this has been subsumed into the computerised working
of the camera.

as it should be. computers can do lots of things better than humans can.

Now the stage has been reached where the photographer
has to know not only the scene, lighting and exposure factors but the
maze which he has to follow through the myriad of menu items over
which he now has control.

that's a flaw of the ui/ux, not the technology.

I was referring to the sheer volume of settings can overwhelm the
photographer, no matter how well the menu system is laid out. It's got
to the stage where, with some cameras, the operating manual weighs
nearly as much as the camera. Too much stuff gets between the
photographer and the picture.

some old mechanical cameras are poorly designed and hard to use too.

This has not made life any more simple for
the photographer. Nor has it necessarily made for better images.

not only has it made life more simple, but the images are much better
to boot.

The new Leica M-D has put the photographer back to the position where
he has full responsibility and control and has to rely on the camera
for very little other than that it does it's job.

photographers have always had that responsibility.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Now the stage has been reached where the photographer
has to know not only the scene, lighting and exposure factors but the
maze which he has to follow through the myriad of menu items over
which he now has control.

that's a flaw of the ui/ux, not the technology.

I was referring to the sheer volume of settings can overwhelm the
photographer, no matter how well the menu system is laid out.

start with the defaults.

then, based on the results, see which options may affect what you like
or don't like.

you don't need to grok it all at once.

It's got
to the stage where, with some cameras, the operating manual weighs
nearly as much as the camera.

pdfs weigh zero grams.

Too much stuff gets between the
photographer and the picture.

nope.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 23:47:48 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Now the stage has been reached where the photographer
has to know not only the scene, lighting and exposure factors but the
maze which he has to follow through the myriad of menu items over
which he now has control.

that's a flaw of the ui/ux, not the technology.

I was referring to the sheer volume of settings can overwhelm the
photographer, no matter how well the menu system is laid out.

start with the defaults.

then, based on the results, see which options may affect what you like
or don't like.

you don't need to grok it all at once.

You are trying to tell me how to cope with the morass of settings.
While that's good you have to recognise that in doing that you are
agreeing with me that that there are a morass of settings. While there
are occasions and appplications where having the plethora of such
morass available may be helpful there are other occasions they only
serve to get in the way. There are people who oonly ooperate their
camera in 'M' mode. The Leica M-D sounds as though it is intended for
these people.

It's got
to the stage where, with some cameras, the operating manual weighs
nearly as much as the camera.

pdfs weigh zero grams.

But the device you have to carry with you to enable you to read them
does not.

Too much stuff gets between the
photographer and the picture.

nope.

By definition, stuff which gets between the photographer and the
picture is too much.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Now the stage has been reached where the photographer
has to know not only the scene, lighting and exposure factors but the
maze which he has to follow through the myriad of menu items over
which he now has control.

that's a flaw of the ui/ux, not the technology.

I was referring to the sheer volume of settings can overwhelm the
photographer, no matter how well the menu system is laid out.

start with the defaults.

then, based on the results, see which options may affect what you like
or don't like.

you don't need to grok it all at once.

You are trying to tell me how to cope with the morass of settings.
While that's good you have to recognise that in doing that you are
agreeing with me that that there are a morass of settings. While there
are occasions and appplications where having the plethora of such
morass available may be helpful there are other occasions they only
serve to get in the way.

there are lots of settings because today's cameras are vastly more
capable than old cameras, which is an incredibly good thing.

just because there are lots of settings doesn't mean it's hard to use.

quite the opposite, in fact. today's cameras are much easier to use
than older cameras because they can do much of the grunt work, leaving
the photographer to concentrate on the creative side.

in other words, there's *less* in the way.

There are people who oonly ooperate their
camera in 'M' mode. The Leica M-D sounds as though it is intended for
these people.

those people are complete fools. they don't want to learn anything new
(or maybe can't) so they try to rationalize doing it the hard way.

m has its place, as does p/s/a and even scene modes. the better
photographers know when to use which mode to get the desired results.

It's got
to the stage where, with some cameras, the operating manual weighs
nearly as much as the camera.

pdfs weigh zero grams.

But the device you have to carry with you to enable you to read them
does not.

it weighs very little and you'd be carrying it *anyway*.

paper books are old school. not only do they weigh a lot but they take
up a lot more space.

that little device can hold thousands of books as well as tutorial
videos *and* have access to the internet for instant results for
anything that can't otherwise be answered, not to mention a phone for
calling/texting someone for answers.

Too much stuff gets between the
photographer and the picture.

nope.

By definition, stuff which gets between the photographer and the
picture is too much.

there isn't anything that gets in the way unless the photographer puts
it there.

with modern cameras, there's *less* in the way because the camera can
take care of all the annoying and boring details that get in the way,
such as focus, subject tracking, exposure, bracketing, etc., letting
the photographer concentrate on the image.

In article , Eric Stevens
says...
I was referring to the sheer volume of settings can overwhelm the
photographer, no matter how well the menu system is laid out. It's got
to the stage where, with some cameras, the operating manual weighs
nearly as much as the camera. Too much stuff gets between the
photographer and the picture.

Oh well, very often (actually most of the time) I leave the camera in P
mode and just shoot, without bothering about the settings. BTW, the
camera is set up for Auto ISO, Auto WB and RAW+JPEG. Sometimes I set it
to aperture priority. In any case, it's very rare that I play with the
settings.

But I'm sure that there will be some people who will spend 6000 Euro for
a camera without LCD. Let these people enjoy wasting their money, and
let Leica make a nice profit. I have no problem with that.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

In article , Eric Stevens
says...

You are trying to tell me how to cope with the morass of settings.
While that's good you have to recognise that in doing that you are
agreeing with me that that there are a morass of settings.

But people usually only spend some time at the beginning to find the
right default settings. After the camera is set up, they just point and
shoot without worrying about the settings.


pdfs weigh zero grams.

But the device you have to carry with you to enable you to read them
does not.

I have a smartphone with a large screen with me all the time. There I
keep all (pdf) manuals, all Lonely Planet, Rough Guides etc. guidebooks
and so one. Zero additional weight for me.

By definition, stuff which gets between the photographer and the
picture is too much.

As explained in the other post, most of the time I just switch on the
camera and shoot. I never worry about the settings. Only in case I need
some special function, I will need to set up the camera.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

In article , Alfred
Molon wrote:


You are trying to tell me how to cope with the morass of settings.
While that's good you have to recognise that in doing that you are
agreeing with me that that there are a morass of settings.

But people usually only spend some time at the beginning to find the
right default settings. After the camera is set up, they just point and
shoot without worrying about the settings.

or they use the defaults out of the box, and once they get a little
experience with the camera and see the results, they tweak things.


pdfs weigh zero grams.

But the device you have to carry with you to enable you to read them
does not.

I have a smartphone with a large screen with me all the time. There I
keep all (pdf) manuals, all Lonely Planet, Rough Guides etc. guidebooks
and so one. Zero additional weight for me.

yep.

and you can always download more if it turns out you need something you
don't have.

By definition, stuff which gets between the photographer and the
picture is too much.

As explained in the other post, most of the time I just switch on the
camera and shoot. I never worry about the settings. Only in case I need
some special function, I will need to set up the camera.

yep.

On 2016-04-30 13:24:53 +0000, Alfred Molon said:

In article , Eric Stevens
says...
I was referring to the sheer volume of settings can overwhelm the
photographer, no matter how well the menu system is laid out. It's got
to the stage where, with some cameras, the operating manual weighs
nearly as much as the camera. Too much stuff gets between the
photographer and the picture.

Oh well, very often (actually most of the time) I leave the camera in P
mode and just shoot, without bothering about the settings. BTW, the
camera is set up for Auto ISO, Auto WB and RAW+JPEG. Sometimes I set it
to aperture priority. In any case, it's very rare that I play with the
settings.

But I'm sure that there will be some people who will spend 6000 Euro for
a camera without LCD. Let these people enjoy wasting their money, and
let Leica make a nice profit. I have no problem with that.

It's like having a chauffeur for your Bugatti Veyron.

--
Regards,

Savageduck