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{SI] Shoot-In - Fractal Comments



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 11th 06, 01:34 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Mardon
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Posts: 295
Default {SI] Shoot-In - Fractal Comments

One early October Tuesday evening in Newfoundland, Mardon put down
his paintbrush to check the r.p.e.35 newsgroup. (His wife kept
painting.) Lo and behold, the SI fractal submissions were on
display in their full glory, even before the submission deadline
arrived. Talk about efficiency. There's no flies on our Jim, as
the saying goes. I wonder if Al is impressed or just glad that the
job isn't his anymore.

"Natural Fractals" Hummm --- I own a text on Chaos Theory. I've
installed Quat and Fractint and have used them on my PC to generate
my own fractal images. I've even installed an image of Henrik
Engstrom's quaternion Mandelbrot set circa 1992 as my PC wallpaper.
All that said, I still have no idea which of the SI submissions is
really a natural fractal and which isn't. Unlike image plots of
fractal equations, I'm inclined to think that natural fractals
exist only in the mind of the beholder. So does beauty, and here's
my opinion of both:

James Mondor
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68336427
I like the film 'feel' and the grain in the dark areas of the
background but I'd like to see the foreground leaves be sharper.
The white and dark spots on the leaves are also distracting to my
eye. What would this have been like without the orange filter I
wonder? Any special reason for using it? I remember using a dark
red filter a lot for that dramatic looks with B/W film.

Walter Banks
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68336535
Nice colours! Common wisdom is that tree branches are natural
fractals but I don't think that applies to leaves, so a 5 point
deduction. As already mentioned, the leaf colours are nice; I wish
the sky were a slightly darker blue. I'm glad the image is not
over sharpened. This is the sort of content that looks bad when
over sharpened.

Quercus
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68336553
Common wisdom also says ferns are natural fractals but I don't
think this is a fern. I can't conceive of those oblong leaves being
made up of smaller oblong patterns, etc; no fractal, so 5 points
off. I really like the colours. My mother always said that blue
and green don't go together but I never did believe that saying.
The shadows on the lower leaves and the lack of shadows on the
upper ones, combined with the clouds make for a very nice image.

Bowser
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68336559
Nice image! Are the barnacles the natural fractals or the rust? I
suspect the rust is really more fractal in nature than the
barnacles but who cares. No deduction because one of them must be
fractal in nature. The orange and white complements each other
well and I like the composition, with mostly white to the upper
left and mostly rust to the lower right.

Al Denelsbeck
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68336564
How'd you do that? The lily pad looks like it's under the surface
of the water but the droplets wouldn't float on water would they?
It seems logical that the droplets must be sitting on the leaf but
it doesn't look that way to my eye. Intriguing! The veins are no
doubt fractal in nature, so do deduction there. To paraphrase our
friend Bret, too bad "Elitechrome 100 Hates Lily Pads".
"Elitechrome 100 LOVES those bubbles though." Too much washed out
green for my taste.


Jim Kramer
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68336571
It's wet. It's soft. It's somehow connected with the insect world
(I think). It may be alive. But is it a natural fractal? Don't
think so. Minus 5 points. My favorite part of this image is the one
rounded, brown tip of the dark leaf at the top edge of the image
and the strands of web that lead down from there. The white strand
at the lower left is also interesting but the glob in the middle
just confuses me. What is it?

Mardon
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68338439
I thought about cooking a DVD in our microwave and repeating the
fractal image from Wikipedia
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Microwaved-DVD.jpg). In the
end, I'm not sure if it was my reluctance to 'steal' the idea from
Wiki or the fear of having my wife catch me putting a metal DVD in
the microwave that ultimately dissuaded me. I opted for this
lichen from a rock in our back yard. It took all of a 10 minute
break from my painting time to photograph and post it. 5 point
deduction because I'm still not sure myself if lichen grows in the
pattern of a natural fractal.

Duncan Chesley
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68348233
The good news: My favorite image of the bunch. The bad news: One
of my least favorite bunches. 5 bonus points for shooting what
looks like a natural fractal to me. I like the colours and
composition. Was this posed or natural? If natural, you caught a
really good angle.


N Lindan
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68354426
Very clever! I love the inclusion of the torn plastic. The
staging of the 3 elements is very neat. I'm not fond of the large
white patches in the blossom but I like the water drops. I think
I'd also prefer a totally black background instead of the white
specs all over it; especially in the upper right corner. I give
"N" 10 bonus points of actually looking at the plastic under a
microscope to very the fractal nature of the tear. Especially when
considering the mandate, this is probably the 2nd place ribbon IMO.

  #2  
Old October 11th 06, 02:55 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Nicholas O. Lindan
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Posts: 1,227
Default {SI] Shoot-In - Fractal Comments

"Mardon" wrote

"Natural Fractals" ... Fractint ... an image of Henrik
Engstrom's quaternion Mandelbrot set ... I'm inclined to
think that natural fractals exist only in the mind of the
beholder.


Try the source:

"The Fractal Geometry of Nature", B. Mandelbrot
Also "The Algorithmic Geometry of Plants", Lindenmayer et. al.

Fractals aren't the mathematical eyecandy - fractals are
a property of nature that the eyecandy imitates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal
http://library.thinkquest.org/26242/full/ap/ap15.html

But images of coastlines and fern leaves are boring, and
so not much attention is given to them. The interesting
point is that what appear to be very complex structures
arise from very simple generating rules.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation
http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com


  #3  
Old October 11th 06, 03:22 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Duncan Chesley
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Posts: 102
Default {SI] Shoot-In - Fractal Comments

On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 00:34:49 GMT, Mardon wrote:

Duncan Chesley
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68348233
The good news: My favorite image of the bunch. The bad news: One
of my least favorite bunches. 5 bonus points for shooting what
looks like a natural fractal to me. I like the colours and
composition. Was this posed or natural? If natural, you caught a
really good angle.


Thanks, Mardon. Be sure I'm saving up those bonus points. It's all
natural. I was wandering around looking at the leaves on the trees
near my home, when, unlike me, I looked down. Straight down. And,
after a little camera orientation, snap.

Cheers,
DuncanC

  #4  
Old October 11th 06, 02:04 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
JimKramer
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Posts: 762
Default {SI] Shoot-In - Fractal Comments

Mardon wrote:

Jim Kramer
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68336571
It's wet. It's soft. It's somehow connected with the insect world
(I think). It may be alive. But is it a natural fractal? Don't
think so. Minus 5 points. My favorite part of this image is the one
rounded, brown tip of the dark leaf at the top edge of the image
and the strands of web that lead down from there. The white strand
at the lower left is also interesting but the glob in the middle
just confuses me. What is it?


It is the egg case for a Green Lynx Spider Legs of which ar in the the
background.

Other thoughts here
http://si.jlkramer.net/fractal.htm

Thanks for commenting,

Jim

  #5  
Old October 11th 06, 02:09 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Walter Banks
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Posts: 803
Default {SI] Shoot-In - Fractal Comments



Mardon wrote:


Walter Banks
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68336535
Nice colours! Common wisdom is that tree branches are natural
fractals but I don't think that applies to leaves, so a 5 point
deduction. As already mentioned, the leaf colours are nice; I wish
the sky were a slightly darker blue. I'm glad the image is not
over sharpened. This is the sort of content that looks bad when
over sharpened.


Thanks for your comments. Looks like I should have waited a few weeks for the leaves to fall from the central maple tree tree in the image so the branches would have been more obvious. I would have missed the colour show.

I was looking for a central fractal theme surrounded by common diverse range of maple leaf sizes (not a fractal but close) and spectrum of colours, both consistent with the fractal theme to support the tree fractal. My Daddy was right stick to thirds or
they won't see it.

The image was cropped and re-sized not processed in any other way, softened by using an old Canon rebel film camera kit lens.

w..


  #6  
Old October 11th 06, 03:21 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Annika1980
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Posts: 4,898
Default {SI] Shoot-In - Fractal Comments


JimKramer wrote:

Other thoughts here
http://si.jlkramer.net/fractal.htm


Here is my leafy contribution (that I forgot to send in).

http://www.pbase.com/bret/image/44092251

  #7  
Old October 11th 06, 03:31 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
JimKramer
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Posts: 762
Default {SI] Shoot-In - Fractal Comments

Annika1980 wrote:
JimKramer wrote:

Other thoughts here
http://si.jlkramer.net/fractal.htm


Here is my leafy contribution (that I forgot to send in).

http://www.pbase.com/bret/image/44092251


You need to get out more if you need to drag in an image from last year
:-)

  #8  
Old October 11th 06, 03:48 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Nicholas O. Lindan
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Posts: 1,227
Default {SI] Shoot-In - Fractal Comments

"JimKramer" wrote
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68336571
It is the egg case for a Green Lynx Spider Legs of which ar in the the
background.


It has much the same form as the sprout from a potato
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/.../potato21d.jpg
http://research.cip.cgiar.org/potato...jpg_medium.jpg

That looks a bit like roman cauliflower
http://www.notthisorthat.com/sblog/u...auliflower.jpg

That looks a bit like a Julia set [sort of a Mandelbrot set turned inside
out]
http://www.fractalartcontests.com/1998/images/258.gif


So what do all these have to do with the equation for the Mandelbrot
set:

2
Z = Z + Z
n+1 n n

Where Z is a complex number: x + yi, where i is the square root of -1

http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/~mjmcguff...mandelbrot.gif

Which looks a bit like the egg case for a green Lynx spider.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation
http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com


  #9  
Old October 11th 06, 09:26 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Ben Brugman
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Posts: 271
Default {SI] Shoot-In - Fractal Comments



Al Denelsbeck
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68336564
How'd you do that? The lily pad looks like it's under the surface
of the water but the droplets wouldn't float on water would they?


Droplets wil float on water. In my kitchen I can let droplets float on
the water. The droplets do look similar as in the picture.

It seems logical that the droplets must be sitting on the leaf but
it doesn't look that way to my eye. Intriguing! The veins are no


You are probably correct that the leaf is under water and that the
droplets float on the water. Soo you spotted this right.

ben



doubt fractal in nature, so do deduction there. To paraphrase our
friend Bret, too bad "Elitechrome 100 Hates Lily Pads".
"Elitechrome 100 LOVES those bubbles though." Too much washed out
green for my taste.



  #10  
Old October 12th 06, 12:45 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Quercus
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Posts: 5
Default {SI] Shoot-In - Fractal Comments

Wow, man, you're being hard on me... Chrome was not chrome, natural
fractal is not fractal... snif :-(

I had the doubt with the chrome one, but I must disagree with this
fractal thing. The leaves are not made up of oblong patterns; I was
looking, in fact, the whole branch :-) If you pay attention the whole
set of leaves has an oblong form (sort of, at least), similar to the
oblong form that has each little branch on the sides of the main
"trunk", and similar itself to the shape of every single leave...
That's where I see the fractal, may be only in my eyes anyway...

About the green and blue... I know some people that think like your
mom, but I just don't see why blue and green are supposed to not going
together, they are everywhere in nature and they feel fine there.

I'm glad that you like the shadows and the lack of them, it was a risky
bet for me, as I was not sure if I liked that effect, or not. So I
chose to take the picture and decide later... And I'm still thinking
:-)

Thanks for your comments, I'll try to catch a no-doubt-one for the
timing mandate for you ;-)

-Quercus-

P.S: I'm pushing my limits with english in these comments, so I hope
I'm explaining myself in a correct way.

Mardon wrote:


Quercus
http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/68336553
Common wisdom also says ferns are natural fractals but I don't
think this is a fern. I can't conceive of those oblong leaves being
made up of smaller oblong patterns, etc; no fractal, so 5 points
off. I really like the colours. My mother always said that blue
and green don't go together but I never did believe that saying.
The shadows on the lower leaves and the lack of shadows on the
upper ones, combined with the clouds make for a very nice image.


 




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