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Carl Zeiss on the Future of Film



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 30th 06, 01:53 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default Carl Zeiss on the Future of Film

How about the Future of Film?

Since Carl Zeiss introduced the Zeiss Ikon rangefinder camera system - a 35
mm film camera - we keep receiving questions about our belief in the future
of film.

In an era of digital hype, many people interested in high quality photo
equipment question an investment in film-based gear. Even those who very
well understand and appreciate the aspects in which film is clearly superior
to digital imagery keep asking us: "Will film be available for me to operate
my Zeiss Ikon camera in the future?"

We know that a variety of documentation applications of extreme importance
rely heavily on silver halide film - if not for image origination, then at
least for image archiving. Military aerial reconnaissance (often with Carl
Zeiss aerial cameras and lenses) today relies on digital technology for
immediate availability, but continues to use film for reliable long-term
storage.

And so does "Hollywood". Carl Zeiss, as a leading supplier of lenses for the
motion picture industry, can see day-in day-out, that the vast majority of
feature films is still originated on silver halide film. Film is the medium
of choice for long-term archiving, and is expected to remain so for the
foreseeable future. This is why we are so confident about the future of film

And how about Fujifilm and Kodak?

During a recent industry association meeting, we had the opportunity to
speak about the future of film with Helmut Rupsch, Business General Manager,
Fujifilm-Düsseldorf and Rainer Dick, Business General Manager, Kodak Digital
& Film Imaging Systems. Though both companies have been experiencing
declining film sales over the last two years, as the amateur and
professional photography markets transition from analog to digital, both
gentlemen report still very healthy business with film. These two industry
representatives, who are in a position to know the facts, confirm that
neither company is considering stopping film manufacture. Both gentlemen are
confident that their companies will continue to supply film - usable in the
ZI camera and others - for decades to come.

http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B58B9?Open


  #2  
Old March 30th 06, 04:27 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default Carl Zeiss on the Future of Film



Jeremy wrote:
How about the Future of Film?

Since Carl Zeiss introduced the Zeiss Ikon rangefinder camera system - a 35
mm film camera - we keep receiving questions about our belief in the future
of film.

In an era of digital hype, many people interested in high quality photo
equipment question an investment in film-based gear. Even those who very
well understand and appreciate the aspects in which film is clearly superior
to digital imagery keep asking us: "Will film be available for me to operate
my Zeiss Ikon camera in the future?"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


The interesting point about this is that Zeiss find enough of a market
to enter into new developments. They seem far less concerned about
growth in an industry, than about picking a niche and exploiting it. We
all know that every industry cannot sustain incrementally larger growth
year after year, but many commenting on internet forums only discuss
so-called "growth" industries. Probably even the best fan of film usage
would tell you that they know film is not a growth industry.

I am glad there are still choices. If we just looked at growth
companies, then we need to only buy Toyotas, since they are the top
seller now. We should also only use Microsoft products, and Dell
computers, because those are also the only growth companies in that
industry. These and many other choices could be termed going with the
market leaders. Want a digital camera, then in the US Kodak is the top
seller, while in other parts of the world Sony is the top seller; of
course that could become Samsung or Panasonic in the near future . . .
everyone probably gets these points.

Those who would dismiss the latest Zeiss endeavours will completely miss
the point that they are not making new cameras and new lenses to
dominate a market, nor to create unsustainable growth, nor to become a
market leader in photography. Zeiss make enough in revenues from other
industries that they can afford to generate a small profit from a niche.
I am certainly glad they took this path.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com

  #3  
Old March 30th 06, 06:07 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default Carl Zeiss on the Future of Film

In article , Gordon Moat
writes

The interesting point about this is that Zeiss find enough of a market
to enter into new developments. They seem far less concerned about
growth in an industry, than about picking a niche and exploiting it. We
all know that every industry cannot sustain incrementally larger growth
year after year, but many commenting on internet forums only discuss
so-called "growth" industries. Probably even the best fan of film usage
would tell you that they know film is not a growth industry.

I am glad there are still choices. If we just looked at growth
companies, then we need to only buy Toyotas, since they are the top
seller now. We should also only use Microsoft products, and Dell
computers, because those are also the only growth companies in that
industry. These and many other choices could be termed going with the
market leaders. Want a digital camera, then in the US Kodak is the top
seller, while in other parts of the world Sony is the top seller; of
course that could become Samsung or Panasonic in the near future . . .
everyone probably gets these points.

Those who would dismiss the latest Zeiss endeavours will completely
miss the point that they are not making new cameras and new lenses to
dominate a market, nor to create unsustainable growth, nor to become a
market leader in photography. Zeiss make enough in revenues from other
industries that they can afford to generate a small profit from a
niche. I am certainly glad they took this path.

Probably because, AIUI, Zeiss are owned by a charitable foundation, thus
don't have the same short-term profit motive of the large stock exchange
listed companies.

David
--
David Littlewood
  #4  
Old March 31st 06, 09:47 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default Carl Zeiss on the Future of Film

Gordon Moat wrote:

Those who would dismiss the latest Zeiss endeavours will completely miss
the point that they are not making new cameras and new lenses to
dominate a market, nor to create unsustainable growth, nor to become a
market leader in photography. Zeiss make enough in revenues from other
industries that they can afford to generate a small profit from a niche.
I am certainly glad they took this path.


They might not make thas small a profit from a niche... it is simply
a question of margins and there is no reason why the Zeiss lens priced
similarily to Nikon lens should have much lower margins. And Nikon has
always made most of its money from selling lens.


Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com


--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++
  #5  
Old March 31st 06, 11:05 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default Carl Zeiss on the Future of Film

David Littlewood wrote:
Probably because, AIUI, Zeiss are owned by a charitable foundation, thus
don't have the same short-term profit motive of the large stock exchange
listed companies.


Zeiss operates pretty much as a normal profit making company though -
they had revenue increase of 4% last year and I think and they pay a
considerable dividend to the foundation.

There is no reason why Zeiss couldn't make a profit from these lens and
most probably at least as much profit as Nikon does from similar ones.
It is rather unlikely they would use batch manufacturing for them like
Nikon did and low volume constant manufacturing can easily be profitable -
at least as long as you don't, or don't need to, retool or replace tooling.
You do have to get the volume approximately right.



David


--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++
  #6  
Old March 31st 06, 11:49 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default Carl Zeiss on the Future of Film

In article , Sander Vesik
writes
David Littlewood wrote:
Probably because, AIUI, Zeiss are owned by a charitable foundation, thus
don't have the same short-term profit motive of the large stock exchange
listed companies.


Zeiss operates pretty much as a normal profit making company though -
they had revenue increase of 4% last year and I think and they pay a
considerable dividend to the foundation.


Being the commercial operating subsidiary of a charitable foundation
with over a century of existence is a whole different world from being a
quoted company on a stock exchange, with hirings and firings based on
quarterly profit figures.

David
--
David Littlewood
  #7  
Old April 3rd 06, 12:02 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default Carl Zeiss on the Future of Film



Sander Vesik wrote:
Gordon Moat wrote:

Those who would dismiss the latest Zeiss endeavours will completely miss
the point that they are not making new cameras and new lenses to
dominate a market, nor to create unsustainable growth, nor to become a
market leader in photography. Zeiss make enough in revenues from other
industries that they can afford to generate a small profit from a niche.
I am certainly glad they took this path.



They might not make thas small a profit from a niche... it is simply
a question of margins and there is no reason why the Zeiss lens priced
similarily to Nikon lens should have much lower margins. And Nikon has
always made most of its money from selling lens.



One of the interesting markets for the new lenses is in machine vision
cameras. That community is a large market for such lenses, especially
the 50 mm range. I would expect the lack of Nikon lenses in that market
to be largely filled by Zeiss, who might actually sell more there than
they might sell to photographers.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com

  #8  
Old April 3rd 06, 01:00 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default Carl Zeiss on the Future of Film

"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
...

One of the interesting markets for the new lenses is in machine vision
cameras.


Nikon is the standard mount for machine vision cameras.

One intersting machine vision lens is the 'telecentric'

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/3d/telecent.htm

Make an interesting Macro lens, n'est ce pas?

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics, Photonics, Informatics.
Remove blanks to reply: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
f-Stop enlarging timers: http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/


  #9  
Old April 3rd 06, 01:48 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default Carl Zeiss on the Future of Film



Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
...


One of the interesting markets for the new lenses is in machine vision
cameras.



Nikon is the standard mount for machine vision cameras.

One intersting machine vision lens is the 'telecentric'

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/3d/telecent.htm

Make an interesting Macro lens, n'est ce pas?


Strange item. I notice that quite often many machine vision lenses are
only sold in lots, or with the camera. Last year I got to do a project
where one of the test machines sent to us was a machine vision camera
with three 24 mm by 36 mm chips and a light splitter prism. Interesting
stuff, though the insurance value on that one body was quite high. We
were very careful with everything.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com

  #10  
Old April 3rd 06, 07:46 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
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Default Carl Zeiss on the Future of Film

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:

"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
...


One of the interesting markets for the new lenses is in machine vision
cameras.



Nikon is the standard mount for machine vision cameras.

One intersting machine vision lens is the 'telecentric'

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/3d/telecent.htm

Make an interesting Macro lens, n'est ce pas?


From a linked page from the
"In systems with image space telecentricity, image plane movements to
focus or intentionally defocus the system will not change the image size."

So in a macro use with tilt/shift there would be no perspective
correction (or the correction would be unnecessary).
 




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