A Photography forum. PhotoBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PhotoBanter.com forum » Digital Photography » Digital Photography
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Sony's new A7s (12mp FF) why do you need a separate "recorder"to record HD and 4K video?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 27th 14, 01:13 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Me
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 470
Default Sony's new A7s (12mp FF) why do you need a separate "recorder"to record HD and 4K video?

On 27/05/2014 11:38 a.m., RichA wrote:
I don't get it, how can the camera not record the images it is taking??

http://web.forret.com/tools/video_fp...gb444&depth=12
  #2  
Old May 27th 14, 07:44 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Joe Kotroczo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 170
Default Sony's new A7s (12mp FF) why do you need a separate "recorder"to record HD and 4K video?

On 27/05/2014 14:44, Whisky-dave wrote:
(...)
I wonder if that's why they are recording the new star wars movie on film.
well I doubt they'd be using a SD card but perhaps the data rate is just too high to be practical.


No. They shoot on film to achieve a certain look. Digital cinema has a
range ways to deal with high data rates. SSD, RAID, etc. It's not really
an issue other than cost. And Star Wars have enough budget to shoot
whatever format they want.

  #3  
Old May 27th 14, 09:39 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,640
Default Sony's new A7s (12mp FF) why do you need a separate "recorder"to record HD and 4K video?

On 2014.05.26, 20:13 , Me wrote:
On 27/05/2014 11:38 a.m., RichA wrote:
I don't get it, how can the camera not record the images it is taking??

http://web.forret.com/tools/video_fp...gb444&depth=12


Bring it down a notch to 4:2:2 (per the dpreview article).

"The camera can read out its entire sensor fast enough to output 8-bit
4:2:2 4K video over HDMI at up to 30p, without the need for line
skipping or pixel binning."

Still - a lot of bandwidth - about 800 MB/s.

--
I was born a 1%er - I'm just more equal than the rest.


  #4  
Old May 27th 14, 09:41 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,640
Default Sony's new A7s (12mp FF) why do you need a separate "recorder"to record HD and 4K video?

On 2014.05.27, 09:44 , Whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 May 2014 04:26:27 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
On Monday, May 26, 2014 8:13:50 PM UTC-4, Me wrote:

On 27/05/2014 11:38 a.m., RichA wrote:




I don't get it, how can the camera not record the images it is taking??








http://web.forret.com/tools/video_fp...gb444&depth=12




Wow! So much for the SD card.


I wonder if that's why they are recording the new star wars movie on film.
well I doubt they'd be using a SD card but perhaps the data rate is just too high to be practical.


Like many movies, the D and DP (who often work together) have chosen
film - per statements I've posted here before - they are determined to
get a 'look' similar to the original movie series (eps. 4-6). The same
pair shot the most recent Star Trek on film as well.

A lot of movies and television series are still shot on film.

The choice of film over digital (or v.v.) has nothing to do with
economics. There are systems to record digital data streams at very
high rates (and redundantly too). It makes managing the whole a lot
easier and one would assume cheaper in the long run.

Yet - nobody objects to what the D and DP choose to film in. And the
second step after filming is to digitize the entire thing (or at least
the chosen rushes).

--
I was born a 1%er - I'm just more equal than the rest.


  #5  
Old May 28th 14, 11:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alfred Molon[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,591
Default Sony's new A7s (12mp FF) why do you need a separate "recorder" to record HD and 4K video?

In article , Alan Browne
says...
Bring it down a notch to 4:2:2 (per the dpreview article).

"The camera can read out its entire sensor fast enough to output 8-bit
4:2:2 4K video over HDMI at up to 30p, without the need for line
skipping or pixel binning."

Still - a lot of bandwidth - about 800 MB/s.


Doesn't the camera use at least a bit of compression to bring down the
data volume?
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
  #6  
Old May 29th 14, 02:55 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,640
Default Sony's new A7s (12mp FF) why do you need a separate "recorder"to record HD and 4K video?

On 2014.05.28, 18:26 , Alfred Molon wrote:
In article , Alan Browne
says...
Bring it down a notch to 4:2:2 (per the dpreview article).

"The camera can read out its entire sensor fast enough to output 8-bit
4:2:2 4K video over HDMI at up to 30p, without the need for line
skipping or pixel binning."

Still - a lot of bandwidth - about 800 MB/s.


Doesn't the camera use at least a bit of compression to bring down the
data volume?


I don't know. The above is a rough (from the linked calculator) about
how much information is produced. Compression could probably cut that
by about 20%, perhaps more.

Another issue is how fast a disk drive can take a sustained write. RAID
arrays are used to split the bandwidth (striping). Compression would
help reduce that load as well.

Redundancy would drive the disk number up (double or triple). RAID
striping increases complexity (and processing at the storage end too, I
guess).


--
I was born a 1%er - I'm just more equal than the rest.


  #7  
Old June 2nd 14, 07:03 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Joe Kotroczo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 170
Default Sony's new A7s (12mp FF) why do you need a separate "recorder"to record HD and 4K video?

On 29/05/2014 16:44, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 May 2014 19:44:02 UTC+1, Joe Kotroczo wrote:
On 27/05/2014 14:44, Whisky-dave wrote:

(...)

I wonder if that's why they are recording the new star wars movie on film.


well I doubt they'd be using a SD card but perhaps the data rate is just too high to be practical.




No. They shoot on film to achieve a certain look.


A certain look is that it, a look that they can't use an effect or filter for is that it ? I just hope it's not the special grain/canvas look they used on the last 4-5 seasons of Battlestar Galatica, it looked really crap on upscalled DVD players.


Most of that was shot on Sony F900 and F950 camera in HDCAM.

So: no.

Digital cinema has a
range ways to deal with high data rates. SSD, RAID, etc. It's not really
an issue other than cost. And Star Wars have enough budget to shoot
whatever format they want.


If it's not cost there must be another reason and I'm not convinced by the 'look' idea.


http://www.indiewire.com/article/10-reasons-why-filmmakers-should-shoot-film-according-to-kodak

http://www.motion.kodak.com/motion/Customers/Productions/index.htm

  #8  
Old June 2nd 14, 01:12 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
J. Clarke[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,273
Default Sony's new A7s (12mp FF) why do you need a separate "recorder" to record HD and 4K video?

In article , says...

On 29/05/2014 16:44, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 May 2014 19:44:02 UTC+1, Joe Kotroczo wrote:
On 27/05/2014 14:44, Whisky-dave wrote:

(...)

I wonder if that's why they are recording the new star wars movie on film.

well I doubt they'd be using a SD card but perhaps the data rate is just too high to be practical.



No. They shoot on film to achieve a certain look.


A certain look is that it, a look that they can't use an effect or filter for is that it ? I just hope it's not the special grain/canvas look they used on the last 4-5 seasons of Battlestar Galatica, it looked really crap on upscalled DVD players.


Most of that was shot on Sony F900 and F950 camera in HDCAM.

So: no.

Digital cinema has a
range ways to deal with high data rates. SSD, RAID, etc. It's not really
an issue other than cost. And Star Wars have enough budget to shoot
whatever format they want.


If it's not cost there must be another reason and I'm not convinced by the 'look' idea.


http://www.indiewire.com/article/10-reasons-why-filmmakers-should-shoot-film-according-to-kodak

http://www.motion.kodak.com/motion/Customers/Productions/index.htm


The top grossing movie of all time was shot on digital and won a "Best
Cinematography" Oscar. Here's a list of movies shot using Red digital
cinema cameras: http://www.red.com/shot-on-red?genre=All. And anybody
who thinks that digital is only for high end movies needs to see
"Monsters", which had a $500,000 budget. Anybody who thinks that there's
a technological obstacle to making feature movies using digital just
hasn't been paying attention.
  #9  
Old June 2nd 14, 09:36 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,640
Default Sony's new A7s (12mp FF) why do you need a separate "recorder"to record HD and 4K video?

On 2014.06.02, 08:12 , J. Clarke wrote:

The top grossing movie of all time was shot on digital and won a "Best
Cinematography" Oscar. Here's a list of movies shot using Red digital
cinema cameras: http://www.red.com/shot-on-red?genre=All. And anybody
who thinks that digital is only for high end movies needs to see
"Monsters", which had a $500,000 budget. Anybody who thinks that there's
a technological obstacle to making feature movies using digital just
hasn't been paying attention.


A lot of feature movies and television shows are made digitally. But
many DP's prefer film generally (whether for technical, aesthetic, both
or other reasons) or based on the needs of the project.

As to budget, it may be cheaper in the end for lower budget movies to go
to digital. The larger the overall budget the less important is the
film v. digital decision and the producer and director defer to the DP.

--
I was born a 1%er - I'm just more equal than the rest.


  #10  
Old June 7th 14, 03:22 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Robert Coe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,901
Default Sony's new A7s (12mp FF) why do you need a separate "recorder" to record HD and 4K video?

On Mon, 02 Jun 2014 08:03:46 +0200, Joe Kotroczo wrote:
: On 29/05/2014 16:44, Whisky-dave wrote:
: On Tuesday, 27 May 2014 19:44:02 UTC+1, Joe Kotroczo wrote:
: On 27/05/2014 14:44, Whisky-dave wrote:
:
: (...)
:
: I wonder if that's why they are recording the new star wars movie on film.
:
: well I doubt they'd be using a SD card but perhaps the data rate is just too high to be practical.
:
:
:
: No. They shoot on film to achieve a certain look.
:
: A certain look is that it, a look that they can't use an effect or filter for is that it ? I just hope it's not the special grain/canvas look they used on the last 4-5 seasons of Battlestar Galatica, it looked really crap on upscalled DVD players.
:
: Most of that was shot on Sony F900 and F950 camera in HDCAM.
:
: So: no.
:
: Digital cinema has a
: range ways to deal with high data rates. SSD, RAID, etc. It's not really
: an issue other than cost. And Star Wars have enough budget to shoot
: whatever format they want.
:
: If it's not cost there must be another reason and I'm not convinced by the 'look' idea.
:
: http://www.indiewire.com/article/10-reasons-why-filmmakers-should-shoot-film-according-to-kodak

The comical thing about that list is that half of the ten are more compelling
as reasons *not* to use film. The "trust" argument, as they state it, is
particularly absurd.

Another comic touch is that the accompanying picture of the panel participants
is out of focus and needs a major white-balance correction. Perhaps the point
is that it wasn't shot on film.

Bob
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
VIDEO - Canadian rapper "SPESH K" is a coward, afraid to fight 1-on-1! SMASH Digital Photography 1 May 2nd 11 09:01 PM
Sony uses "pellicle" approach in new EVF "SLT"cameras (a33 and a55). Alan Browne Digital SLR Cameras 5 August 27th 10 09:32 PM
"Corset-Boi" Bob "Lionel Lauer" Larter has grown a "pair" and returned to AUK................ \The Great One\ Digital Photography 0 July 14th 09 12:04 AM
Is a 1/1.8" (7.18 x 5.32 mm) sensor sufficient for 10mp and 12mp? Paul D. Sullivan Digital Photography 64 February 17th 07 11:57 AM
FA: SONY VO-6800 U-MATIC BETAMAX PORTABLE VIDEO RECORDER>NR cooltube 35mm Equipment for Sale 0 May 8th 05 03:13 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2022 PhotoBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.